HOrnbrod Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Looks really darn close to perfectly parallel to me... :agree: Yes it does with the straight-on pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrz Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Looks really darn close to perfectly parallel to me... :agree: Yes it does with the straight-on pics. Think it would help to lower the angles? By dropping both the trackbar and linkage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeless Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Probably not. Your drag link and track bar are at pretty mild angles as is. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't mess with it. Fix your caster first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Probably not. Your drag link and track bar are at pretty mild angles as is. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't mess with it. Fix your caster first. Agree again. Did you get an angle finder to check caster L & R? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrz Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Probably not. Your drag link and track bar are at pretty mild angles as is. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't mess with it. Fix your caster first. Agree again. Did you get an angle finder to check caster L & R? Still waiting for it to come in the mail, guess I can't do much till then lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrz Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 ok well i finally got my angle finder in the mail today and took some pictures of all the angles driver side from the top of the ball joint passenger side ball joint driver side lower arm pass side lower arm upper control pass side upper control drivers side From the diff cover let me know if anymore needs anymore pictures, but looks like I'm at a 15 degree angle right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 To measure caster have the Jeep on level ground, place a socket over the top ball joint nut and put the angle finder on top of the socket, like the above pic. Both left and right upper ball joints. Usually I just put the angle finder across the top flat of each ball joint and measure the angle off the vertical (90*). Below are some I found on the iweb.This one shows about 5* of caster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrz Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 ok just pulled the manche out onto the freshly paved block and took a few pictures, the drivers side looks pretty good, but the passenger side is still way off drivers side pass side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 When Hornbrod wrote "level," he meant "LEVEL" -- as in a flat floor that has zero slope in any direction. Make certain that all four tires are inflated to the correct pressure. If the vehicle isn't on a perfectly level surface, the readings you get from the angle finder are worthless. Your readings show 14 degrees of caster on one side and 16 degrees on the other. The printout from your alignment shows 9 degrees -- and even nine is too much, and hard to believe. When you can -- please jack up one side, remove the front wheel, and take a good photo of the upper ball joint. I've never seen an XJ or MJ ball joint with a castle nut like what I see in your photos. They should have a flat top with a zerk fitting in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrz Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 When Hornbrod wrote "level," he meant "LEVEL" -- as in a flat floor that has zero slope in any direction. Make certain that all four tires are inflated to the correct pressure. If the vehicle isn't on a perfectly level surface, the readings you get from the angle finder are worthless. Your readings show 14 degrees of caster on one side and 16 degrees on the other. The printout from your alignment shows 9 degrees -- and even nine is too much, and hard to believe. When you can -- please jack up one side, remove the front wheel, and take a good photo of the upper ball joint. I've never seen an XJ or MJ ball joint with a castle nut like what I see in your photos. They should have a flat top with a zerk fitting in it. hey the road looks level and does not have slope in it. I put the caster nut on it so the angle finder sits flat when getting the angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 hey the road looks level and does not have slope in it. I put the caster nut on it so the angle finder sits flat when getting the angle. I very much doubt that any road is level. If it is, it was built wrong. Never mind what it looks like. You're trying to fix death wobble. Front end alignment isn't a game of "That looks pretty close," it's a matter of precision measurement. The human eye cannot see a difference of one or two degrees. Find some place with a flat, level floor. Check the floor for level with a 4-foot or 6-foot carpenter's level. And nuts probably don't have the top and bottom surfaces accurately cut parallel. Use a socket, as Don suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Driver's side looks like 6* or so, but the passenger side is AFU. How many shims do you have packed in behind the right and left LCAs? It looks like if you can, you need to pull some shims out on the right side, tighten up, then measure again and keep doing it reducing the angle and get as close as you can to the 6* on the left (drivers) side. We're just looking for some improvement at this point. I can only assume you are on fairly level ground. And yes, use a socket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrz Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 ok just checked all the tires and have them all set at 30 psi, I check the angles on the comanche for about a block ( incase the road was off some ) and got the same results each time. I also used a socket this time as well. I'm going to have to check the shims tomorrow and start playing with them. thanks for the help ill post more results tomorrow. My goal caster should be 7.5 correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 How many shims are at the rear of the right LCA? Or do you have adjustable LCAs? I haven't read the whole thread.......... Yes, 7.5* is the factory spec for an un-lifted MJ. But you may have to cheat on that a bit (lower it) depending on the amount you have of lift and the pinion angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrz Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 How many shims are at the rear of the right LCA? Or do you have adjustable LCAs? I haven't read the whole thread.......... Yes, 7.5* is the factory spec for an un-lifted MJ. But you may have to cheat on that a bit (lower it) depending on the amount you have of lift and the pinion angle. to be honest i have to check the shims, i don't recall if i have 1 or 2 on each side. arms are fixed, but I'm debating on buying all adjustable, I'm at around 4.5-5 inches of lift, will get more accurate readying and angles tomorrow ( too dark out now to try and get accurate ones ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 to be honest i have to check the shims, i don't recall if i have 1 or 2 on each side. See your post #19. Looks like you have one thick shim on the driver's side, passenger side looks to have two thick shims and at least three thin shims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave92cherokee Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 All the more reason we've told him to take it to a different shop to get an alignment done. The first shop was a hack and seems the guy that did it was stupid. He has the shims all messed up behind the control arms. I would leave them the way they are and take it with the first printout to a major tire shop. They should get a good laugh out of the readings and shim placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I only go to a "shop" to verify and fine tune my own results. They are not perfect of course, but close. You are assuming a different shop will be professional, but they also may be just as AFU as the first shop. Some of these shops employ minimum wage guys with little training with the emphasis on selling steering parts you most likely don't need to augment their salary. OP, pull the shims from the right side, and equalize the caster to the left side with the angle finder. Then go to a reputable alignment shop to verify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockfrog Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Verify axle position as well ... measure from forward rear spring hanger to the lower control arm bracket on the axle ... bolt center to bolt center. Adjust them (with you shims) to match. then move on to Caster ... which will most likely end up at closer to 5.5-6 degrees at 4.5" lift with an HP30. Set your toe in to 1/8" ... drive it in a straight line on fairly level ground for 100' to get to center-ish. Use a Carpenters square to mark the tires front and rear, I use the square against the ground and tire to find the rolling center point of the tires, then measure to center. You end up with a crossed chalk mark at each level center. Take your front/back toe -in measurements there, That should cure any angle related issues ... and you won't be crapping your pants so much ... I know I've been there ... DW at 80kph sucks ... at 110kph it REEEAAALLLY sucks ... you'll get to a point you think you have it cured ... find a bumpy arse road with no-one near and try it again in 10mph increments until you feel confident to hit the highway. I had mine cured .. to a point ... if I hit the right bump, at the right speed, at the right angle ... off she went. That's when i went 3-link anyway and soved it for good, but I was damn close to done. We found the ball joint shot when we swapped, they were new at first lift and DW was taking it's toll ... the more episodes ... the more thing get toasted ... it may scare hell out of you but it's destrying your suspension more each time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrz Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 Thanks for all the input, sadly I haven't had the time to work on it due to the weather this past weekend, hopefully we get some sunny days and ill post up some more results Thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big66440 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Any updates on your DW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrz Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Hate to bring this thread back, but i am still not driving the comanche due to the death wobble. I sold my dd and am driving my second car, I am at the point now, that if i can't get this thing on the road i am going to take a huge beating on it and buy a new jeep. Brought to a front end place, and they got everything aligned perfect, No bump steer, rubbing, or any creeks. The only complaint they had was my column has some minor play in it. Sold my rims and tires thinking they were defects, and tossed on a 225 75 15 for now. Drove good with no shaking and got up to 65 with no worries, but still felt something in the steering. Got a new take off set of 255 70 18s from work and now i cannot go over 30 with out the dw. i am now stumped, and have no idea what it could, spent 4 hrs checking everybolt and retorqueing everything took a video to see if my axle shafts were possibly bent, and everything looks good here's a video, hopefully someone will see somthing. Id hate to mask the issue with 2 stabalizers, id like to do it once and right will get some angles tomorrow to see if everything is really in spec thanks in advance :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Brought to a front end place, and they got everything aligned perfect, What were the readings on their printout? How about the LCA L & R shim balance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMJNUT Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 from the video, the driver side rear wheel/tire has some wobble to it. best thing to do is to have a friend record a near the ground shot in another car while your driving 30mph and see where it starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitroxsteve Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Did you say that when running the 225 75 15 tires you have no DW and with the 255 70 18 you do? If thats the case you need to look at the 18 inch wheel/tire combo. What are the take off's from? Are you using wheel adaptors to make them fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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