Weber Triple Dceo Carbs

[cruiser54]

I suggest starting here:

 

 

$16.95

HP Books HP774: Book, "Weber Carburetors", 176 Pages, Paperback, Each - HP Books' Weber Carburetors explains the basics of carburetion design and theory of operation.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hpb-hp774?seid=srese1&gclid=CNa1hf6n8LsCFSUOOgoda28A_g

 

Read it to get a good idea about Webers, what they can do, and what you will need to know and buy to do your own tuning. If it sounds like too much for you, then at least you can make an informed decision about passing on them. If you decide to go for it, you'll find a wealth of info to help you among its pages. Either way, it's money well-spent before you dump a pile of money into what is ultimately a very expensive setup.

 

Among all carbs, you can't do better.

 

Compared to custom fuel injection, you'll never do as well.

 

While checking out alternatives, look at MegaSquirt fuel injection. If you are comfortable with digital electronics and custom intake work, I'd say they offer the ultimate: http://www.msextra.com/

 

 

 

 

 

Having tuned  Mikuni/Solexes and Webers both, I'll have to say the Mikuni is a better carb. It doesn't need rejetting every time a cloud comes overhead. 

.

.

.

 

.

.

[cruiser54]

 

I'm sorry, my mistake, I'm talking of a lot of money in internals, all custom made pretty much, my question will it be with all those performance internals that are a must, how much HP more will the triple carb setup make over a will tuned single 4 barrel manifold, as I mention if it will be 30+HP I may use the money in other things for the engine.

 

Why are you so fixated on removing an EFI system, that ALWAYS operates at the optimum air-fuel ratio, and replacing it with a carburetor that struggles to deliver an optimum air-fuel mixture and can really be optimized for doing so only under one or two load/RPM conditions?

 

WAAAAAY back in time, when Jack Clifford was alive and running Clifford Performance & Research, my friend and fellow Hudson collector ran a Hudson Hornet-powered stock car that was set up with a Clifford triple Weber setup. The track where we ran was located immediately next to the Connecticut River. Typically, we had to run one set of jets for practice, then re-jet for the qualifying heats, and then re-jet again for the main event ... all due to falling temperature and rising humidity. That's how sensitive those things are. EFI would have taken care of that automatically, and far more accurately.

 

Quite simply, IMHO you are heading in the wrong direction. Carburetors cannot do a better job of fuel management than modern EFI. Period.

Exactly. Typical Weber behavior. I've had Webers, Mikunis, SUs etc and know how to jet and tune all of  them properly.

I'll stick with EFI.

[Oyaji]

Webers go back, 'way back, into automotive history. There is a "cool factor" there that just cannot be quantified... and if you want that, well, there just ain't no substitute.

 

They are also extremely tunable... provided you have (or have access to) a complete set of factory jets. A complete jet set costs more than the set of carbs (or at least they used to). To do a good job of tuning these carbs, you'll also need a mercury tube manometer (I made my own 4-tube manometer - it was extremely hard sourcing the mercury back 20 years ago, doubtless much harder post-9/11), a bajillion spark plugs or a bead blaster to clean them between trial runs (so you can read the deposits on the plugs for cues as to mixture settings), and an exhaust gas analyzer or surrogate thereof (a budget-conscious alternative is a fuel-air meter that uses an oxygen sensor for data source). You'll also need a guide or a book, a light touch with basic hand tools, ability to follow "recipe"-like directions, and patience.

 

It's doable. Properly tuned, Webers offer good driveability over the entire RPM range. It's just that that "properly tuned" part is seldom achieved to its full potential (probably because of cost), and thus 1-barrel-per-cylinder individual-intake-runner setups get a bad rap.

 

If you want to step into this century instead, digital engine management offers greater potential, particularly for economy. Whereas a superlative carburettor setup can unleash the full power potential of an engine, it burns more gasoline to achieve it with poorer driveability than what you can get with fuel injection.

 

However, the learning curve is even steeper for learning all aspects of digital engine management so that you can do custom programming than it is for a 6-barrel individual runner setup such as you contemplate! :)

 

I guess that if you are the type who enjoys the learning experience at least as much as the final product, the journey as much as arriving at the destination, then you'll get enjoyment either way you go.

 

As an aside, you might take note that I will one day pull the primary venturis (chokes) from my Webers, block off all passages besides the throttle-plate throats, machine injector mounting bosses in my individual intake runners, and adapt a home-made fuel injection system to my engine. It will be cheaper to use the Webers for throttle bodies than to buy or make alternatives. Having enjoyed them in their current state, it will one day be time to move on to the higher performance afforded by digital engine management... and if I get nostalgic, I can always roll back to their original function.

[jimoshel]

In 1956 I installed the Clifford intake manifold and trip Webers on a 261 GMC. The Jimmy had the head milled and a 3 way valve job. It was otherwise stock. I could only notice a power difference in a narrow RPM range, 1200-1500 RPM. By playing with jets and timing I could move this power range up and down with the best performance being around 3500-4400 RPM range. I believe if I had played with different cam grinds and ignition systems I may have picked up a little more HP over a wider range but don't really think so. Playing with the cam would have netted more HP but over a narrower range. Frankly I wouldn't swap a good working EFI system for a carb any time.

Correction. The carbs were not Webers. They were Strombergs. Don't know what I was thinking.

[Remy B.]

Guys, I understand your point, yes you are right that the MPFI is better than carburetors, but I'm talking of a modified engine, and stop assuming that I live in a location that have different weather seasons, I live where it is 82*F all year long.

 

if I will put a lot of money in custom build internals, the Stock manifold will kill all that money, no matter, how much injector or ECU I have.

 

I guess I didn't use the right explanation. here is some examples, hope you will understand me better

 

Weber Triple DCEO setup : 3000+$ plus around 800+$ in dual sensor O2 and multi channels H20 manometers and the jets and chokes required to tune the engine.

Clifford 4 barrel manifold, performance 2 barrel Carb plus 75Hp NOS around 2800+$

 

know here is what I was trying to ask if somebody had done this before, how much more HP will I make between the triple setup and the 4 barrel without using NOS and still be streetable, is it really a big difference if yes then I go with it but I don't know, have any one had the chance to Dyno this or have some ET's and I like to know how was there internal setup to see if they where actually getting the right setup to get the potential out of those DCEO.

 

Inglese MPFI: 6400$ for a complete setup

FAST: don't remember but I believe it was 4900$ and you still need to buy the Clifford 4 barrel manifold.

 

I hope you understand better, and appreciate all your comments and helps you have done, all are good.

[yxmj]

You go for it REMY (I vote for the triple deuce).....it is your.... $....your time.....and your effort.

 

If every car (Comanche/4 wheeler) builder just stayed the course and only went with tried and trued methods and what the old school declared to be "Right" & "Best".......

 

Then we would never see some of the innovative creative vehicles that people on this site and other sites produce every day.

 

To...... H.....E...... double hockey sticks to the Nay Sayers.....if you can dream it you can build it.

 

(Myself I am in the early stages of a hybrid 2 wheel drive Yj that when done will look like more of an offspring from a Plymouth prowler that its Jeep ancestors.....When asked many times why I want to go through the time and effort to create this monster my answer has always been........BECAUSE I CAN  :thumbsup: )

[Eagle]

Guys, I understand your point, yes you are right that the MPFI is better than carburetors, but I'm talking of a modified engine, and stop assuming that I live in a location that have different weather seasons, I live where it is 82*F all year long.

 

I'm not assuming anything about where you live. There is nowhere on the planet where the temperature stays at exactly 82 F 24/7/365 and the relative humidity never changes. Go back and read what I wrote -- that Hudson engine was modified to the point that it was more than competitive with built Chevy 327s and 350s. We had to change the jets twice between 4:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. because of the drop in temperature and rise in humidity when the sun went down. I'm not talking about the difference between July heat and December cold, I'm talking about three hours.

 

 

if I will put a lot of money in custom build internals, the Stock manifold will kill all that money, no matter, how much injector or ECU I have.

 

Horse pucky. The guys who have been building the strokers and using the factory EFI prove that this is incorrect.

 

What you're overlooking is that, with a carburetor (or multiple carburetors), the fuel gets mixed with the air at the carb, which is the inlet end of the intake runner. From there to the intake valve, the length and shape of the intake runners affects how well the fuel and air mix or don't mix, and how well the atomized fuel stays atomized.

 

With EFI, the fuel is injected directly at the valve, so the intake runners only carry air. Their length and shape have no effect on fuel atomization, and there's no concern that the fuel won't stay finely atomized.

[Remy B.]

Eagle, I understand, yes I know that, but I'm looking at the money to spend, have the stroker guys tried other manifolds ?, how hi rpms are they reaching ?, how much money have they spend in the internals beside putting a crank of a 258 or maybe a 505 and an aftermarket of the shelf camshaft, how hi of a SCR and DCR are they running,

 

What I have in my mind in not a crank of a 258 and is not an of the shelf cam, it is nothing like that, and for sure not a stock manifold.

 

I have to be honest, I have not read every single post of the Stroker Forum, there are probably guys that have put a lot of Custom made stuff in there  engines, but most of what I have seen is cranks of 258's of the shelf cams, ECU tuning some other aftermarkets, don't get me wrong all is at the criteria of each owner of their vehicle and how much different approach and money they want to spend.

 

I have as well make strokers, it is cheap and you enjoy a lot your ride but to be honest is not very impressive, of course all come down to how big your pockets are, mine are not big it all, but I'm willing to pay for custom made parts because there is where the HP are, but for the 4.0 engine there are not a lot of options in intakes, and go custom build one and all the pulsation and wave frequency problems you need to confront in building a custom manifold one may as well go to and aftermarket MPFI from Inglese, that is the same principle that tripe weber setup except for Injectors.

 

I even contacted Marcella manifold and Wilson to build me a Custom build manifold but to put IDA carburetors, they just are not interested and I don't know how to make a nice intake like they do, with all the R&D that takes do so.

 

The options that are in the market are Clifford intakes and Inglese or Wilborn FI systems, but that is a lot of money and I prefer to spend it on custom build internals and machining.

 

now let me ask you, between your beloved FI stock intake and a Inglese FI with a Clifford manifold ( made for the DCEO ), which one do you think will have more Punch ?, do you see where I'm going with it ? do you think all cylinders will run the same with the stock manifold ??, are you sure each cylinder is making the same power ??

[dasbulliwagen]

The only Comanche I've seen on this site with a setup like you're talking about is worldsfastestcomanche. There is an entire build page stickied to reference. You might try contacting him for more details.

You keep asking for someone with experience with the side drafts. Again I refer to my earlier post. Maybe it was overlooked?

[Remy B.]

Dasbulliwagen, I saw it, thanks for your help, I did take a look at the post, but the OP have not posted for a long time, anyway I ask some regular questions, who knows if he will be back soon posting again and gave us an update of his project and feedbacks.

[yxmj]

 

Guys, I understand your point, yes you are right that the MPFI is better than carburetors, but I'm talking of a modified engine, and stop assuming that I live in a location that have different weather seasons, I live where it is 82*F all year long.

 

I'm not assuming anything about where you live. There is nowhere on the planet where the temperature stays at exactly 82 F 24/7/365 and the relative humidity never changes. Go back and read what I wrote -- that Hudson engine was modified to the point that it was more than competitive with built Chevy 327s and 350s. We had to change the jets twice between 4:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. because of the drop in temperature and rise in humidity when the sun went down. I'm not talking about the difference between July heat and December cold, I'm talking about three hours.

 

 

>if I will put a lot of money in custom build internals, the Stock manifold will kill all that money, no matter, how much injector or ECU I have.

 

Horse pucky. The guys who have been building the strokers and using the factory EFI prove that this is incorrect.

 

What you're overlooking is that, with a carburetor (or multiple carburetors), the fuel gets mixed with the air at the carb, which is the inlet end of the intake runner. From there to the intake valve, the length and shape of the intake runners affects how well the fuel and air mix or don't mix, and how well the atomized fuel stays atomized.

 

With EFI, the fuel is injected directly at the valve, so the intake runners only carry air. Their length and shape have no effect on fuel atomization, and there's no concern that the fuel won't stay finely atomized.

 

 

Did it ever cross your immaculate mind that what he wants to build is being built for the look....not the fuel efficiency............there isn't a truck on hear that is more stable with a 6" lift......but we have them........I have strokers that get crappy milage ......but i have them.....go to a local show an shine or a care show........is all that done for the sake of.......".well the read out says that his is better".....instead of crapping on this young fellows innovation......sit back......maybe you will gain knowledge from the discussion

 

And to the OP.....go for it......and check out the dasbulliwagon (?) above he looks like he is ready to help ..... :thumbsup:

[HOrnbrod]

:agree:    But, OP, this really isn't the best forum for you to get experienced answers for your questions. I know of at least three members over on the stroker forum who have built carbed I6 stroker engines (mixed results), and Hesco is currently building a 284 c.i. Jeep I6 stroker with Hilborn injection for a drag racing customer in TN (Alkydiggers Fuel Injection Service in Nashville) who is a Hilborn retailer. His name is Mike Chilando; might be a good guy for you to contact since he's well into doing an option you might consider, mechanical fuel injection.

 

http://www.hesco.us/customergallery.asp?action=form&formID=1725&recordID=459131

[Eagle]

Eagle, I understand, ...

 

Respectfully, no ... you do NOT understand. You say you don't have unlimited money, yet you insist that the only way to get power out of a 4.0L Jeep engine is to go with completely custom parts, and to revert from a modern fuel handling system (EFI) to technology that's 100 years behind EFI. It is OBVIOUS that you don't understand. You are fixated on a preconceived path. If you want to use triple Webers because they look cool, that's just fine. They do look cool. But they AREN'T the best way to accomplish what you claim you want to accomplish.

 

 

I have as well make strokers, it is cheap and you enjoy a lot your ride but to be honest is not very impressive, of course all come down to how big your pockets are, mine are not big it all, but I'm willing to pay for custom made parts because there is where the HP are, but for the 4.0 engine there are not a lot of options in intakes, and go custom build one and all the pulsation and wave frequency problems you need to confront in building a custom manifold one may as well go to and aftermarket MPFI from Inglese, that is the same principle that tripe weber setup except for Injectors.

 

A few years ago I made multiple trips to Rhode Island to see Bob Salemi building his NRA drag-race MJ. I even helped in a VERY minor way in turning some wrenches on the project. Bob is a VERY experienced professional drag race driver, owner and builder. If triple Webers (or any other carburetor(s) ) were the way to go, he would have gone that way. He didn't. He runs factory EFI with hand-polished and port-matched manifolds.

 

 

The options that are in the market are Clifford intakes and Inglese or Wilborn FI systems, but that is a lot of money and I prefer to spend it on custom build internals and machining.

 

So ... spend your money on the internals and the machining, and stop trying to throw money at a "solution" that's going to be inferior to what the factory injection can and will do for you.

 

 

now let me ask you, between your beloved FI stock intake and a Inglese FI with a Clifford manifold ( made for the DCEO ), which one do you think will have more Punch ?, do you see where I'm going with it ? do you think all cylinders will run the same with the stock manifold ??, are you sure each cylinder is making the same power ??

 

"Punch" is not going to come from the difference between EFI or carburetor. "Punch" is going to come from compression ratio, camshaft selection, gearing, and optimized fuel management. Too rich or too lean and you don't get maximum acceleration. The ONLY purpose of a carburetor or a fuel injection system is to deliver the optimum air-fuel mixture into the cylinders. And EFI does a far better job of that, more reliably, more economically, and across a much wider range of operating conditions, than any carburetor setup can possibly hope to achieve.

 

Do I think all cylinders make the same power with EFI? Yeah, I do -- but there's no way to know that. You can't connect six individual dynomometers to the six cylinders. You can't know that with a triple Weber setup, either. Yes, you can tune the three carbs so each tube is flowing at the same velocity at the carburetor, but there are so many possible variables from there to the piston pushing on the crankshaft that even flow-matching the carbs doesn't guarantee equal output per cylinder.

[Eagle]

Here: http://comancheclub.com/topic/17726-drag-comanche/

[Oyaji]

Do I think all cylinders make the same power with EFI? Yeah, I do -- but there's no way to know that. You can't connect six individual dynomometers to the six cylinders. You can't know that with a triple Weber setup, either. Yes, you can tune the three carbs so each tube is flowing at the same velocity at the carburetor, but there are so many possible variables from there to the piston pushing on the crankshaft that even flow-matching the carbs doesn't guarantee equal output per cylinder.

 

Actually, there IS a way to know that: by analyzing the exhaust gas from each cylinder individually. By analyzing the exhaust gas you can determine not only constituent gases in the burn, but also by inference determine the fuel efficiency and power too... and do it with incredible accuracy (within a tenth of a percent). [Note that this level of accuracy requires laboratory-grade equipment (Clayton steady-state eddy-current dynamometer and Horiba exhaust gas analyzer for starters, these days probably $2+million per test cell).]

 

However, for the private enthusiast I reckon a setup with an oxygen sensor for each cylinder would return good results at an affordable price, if you absolutely just had to calculate the power for each cylinder. But practically speaking, I reckon just reading the plugs and using a single oxygen sensor is good enough: in the case of carbs you can know the amount of air to each cylinder is matched, in the case of fuel injection you can know the fuel to each cylinder is matched, and for either fuel system the plug color will give you a good idea about the quality of the burn of of the intake charge.

 

...

 

Here's the big thing: the hard part about making power isn't getting fuel into a naturally-aspirated engine, it's getting the air in... and that is where an individual runner intake manifold is going to shine.

 

The next limiting factor will be what the head will flow... and with just 2 pushrod-actuated valves per cylinder, that is going to be a real problem that makes forced induction increasingly attractive as you approach the breathing limit of the engine.

[JeepcoMJ]

Guys, you are sitting here bringing up some good points.  But the greatest point that I think is missed here is that, to do a carb swap without unlimited money to do it with is going hinder the ability to do things like individual cylinder exhaust analyzing.

 

 

We can go one step further here and also say this;

 

I know of an xj running a 4.0 with 258 aftermarket parts on it for 4bbl carb.

 

It has been for sale for 3 years, starting at a high price and going down.

 

Still for sale.  no one wants someone's bastardized mess.

 

 

 

Not only will going to a carb cost more to do right (which you seem not to have the deep pockets for), but it's going to negatively affect resale value.   Cool factor only goes so far.  People want something that runs consistently.  You can't get that by going back in time.

[Remy B.]

Oyaji, have pull some wrenchs in his live, he knows what I'm trying to say to the letter, do you understand now Eagle.

 

Eagle, you are far out of understanding what I trying in my bad words to explain, you are behind a computer trying to understand and I'm on the other side behind another computer trying to do my best and we don't are close to help each other, if you read Oyaji post that is 100% accurate, to put it to another extend, why do you thick the guy from the WorldFastestMJ went to individual runners setup ? pure and simple they make more HP if not he will be using your beloved stock manifold.

 

with your beloved stock manifold do you think that cylinders #1 and #6 are running the same as the #3 and #4 ?, hook up your O2 analyzer to each cylinder and it will surprise you, clearly you have never done it, but it is just in a constructive way that I'm suggesting you that when ever you have the chance go for it, and it doesn't matter is it MPFI or carburetor, there are too far apart and some cylinders will run leaner than other, there for, they are not producing the same HP, there for more parasitic losses on the crankshaft = less HP overall  

[Eagle]

Eagle, you are far out of understanding what I trying in my bad words to explain, you are behind a computer trying to understand and I'm on the other side behind another computer trying to do my best and we don't are close to help each other,  ...

 

I understand completely ... you have a preconceived idea and you are willing to accept only advice that supports your pre-determined direction. But, you also wrote:

 

 

I have as well make strokers, it is cheap and you enjoy a lot your ride but to be honest is not very impressive, of course all come down to how big your pockets are, mine are not big it all, ...

 

That says it all. Go ahead ... waste your money. I am through with this discussion.

[yxmj]

 

Eagle, you are far out of understanding what I trying in my bad words to explain, you are behind a computer trying to understand and I'm on the other side behind another computer trying to do my best and we don't are close to help each other,  ...

 

I understand completely ... you have a preconceived idea and you are willing to accept only advice that supports your pre-determined direction. But, you also wrote:

 

 

>I have as well make strokers, it is cheap and you enjoy a lot your ride but to be honest is not very impressive, of course all come down to how big your pockets are, mine are not big it all, ...

 

That says it all. Go ahead ... waste your money. I am through with this discussion.

 

 

 

Stomp your feet......take your bat and ball and go home.....you interjected yourself into the discussion.....now want to pout because you could not bully it your way.....

 

DREAM REMY DREAM......never let pontifs make you lose your vision

 

 

 

:thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

[Remy B.]

YXMJ, I saw that picture before, that is what I want to do, but, I will try to stay on the budged and the triple weber will throw me a little out, it will gave me more HP, but I still don't know how much more for the money, the internals that I have in my mind will eat up everything pretty much in order to make power, and

 

I have not yet called Larry from Clifford, he will guide me a lot and gave me more light with the triple setup since so far I had not have inputs of guys that had tried this system, my other concern is will it fit ???, the triple weber setup is large and I'm afraid that it will hit the brake lung, since the project is based on a MJ that is why I sign me in here, I know it is the same as the XJ but like JEEPCOMJ pointed out at the time of selling the car it will be hard, there for is logical that the owners don't want to the invest ( throw money out the window ), I will say a very large majority is just going for the popular 258 crank, of the shelf cams, bored throttle bodies, 10:1SCR and the ECU tuning, so they are not doing nothing radical with the internals and their intake system and cooling system can handle that.

 

I don't have in my mind selling the project because, plain and simple they will not pay for what you put in the engine, and the guys that want big performance they just go with the typical V8 so they will not buy a 6 inline. this is more for the passion of doing as much as possible with as little of an engine in a budget.

 

the limiting factor is the stock intake that came with the MJ, I need a enough lung and the stock manifold is not enough, I think the Clifford manifold with a MPFI setup and a FAST throttle body or similar will gave me some problems do to the size of the throttle body, maybe not but that is how I see it, I don't know if some body adapted a Painless throttle body to this Clifford manifold that maybe will be the right direction but I'm not up to try and fail with costly parts on the intake, Note: off course it depends of how much internals you put in your engine, that will dictate how much air will suck the engine.

 

this project is not with the popular stroker setup with 11:0 SCR or less and their common little aftermarkets and of the shelf stuff that most have done or are familiar with, again my questions had been actually for guys that have done performance engines and they understand what I want to do, If you had not done one before that is ok, your comments still valuable for other readers that understand more one point of view than of an other, I guess that has been a lot of the misunderstandings, this is very common online, thanks for all your comments and opinions.

[dasbulliwagen]

here's a question that I don't think has come up yet Remy..... What is your intended purpose of this type of engine build? Drag racing? Daily driver? Rock Crawler? Desert runner? This may help narrow down any help we can give you, but like was said, experience with this type of build is extremely limited on this forum. Our experience with performance gains has mostly been limited to working with the existing induction system for reliability and budget concerns. Or all out V8 swaps... again due to budgetary reason for building a straight 6 to the same horsepower. We are all mostly a bunch of cheap bastards and will do what will get us the best results for the least amount of money, and a custom high strung induction system is almost never an option considering that. I love what youre trying to do. It is a beautiful setup, but our experience shows this not to be the best option. But if this is what you want, go for, and let us know how it turns out. There are enough of us here that will appreciate it for what it is.

[carnuck]

That's not a hemi unless the plugs/wires come into the valve cover from the far side? 

 

I had one of the Ozzy built slant 6 twin cam hemi conversions years ago in a boat. I sold the carbs off it to a guy running a slant 6 Dart in N Seattle about 5 years back.

 

 

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/hemi-pent-roof.gif

[Remy B.]

Dasbulliwagen, it will be a street sleeper, road only, suspension dropped a little, yes the stock induction system has limits, the other problem is the cooling system and oiling bud that I all ready know how to fix, there as well go a lot a money to be able to run high CR un pump gas and high rpms, just to point out the most common issues with this block, the OEM design from the engine block will not work for what I have in mind, the last two cylinders run too hot due to the design, I have rebuild some engines for friends and on all cylinder #6 and in one engine the #5 have had as well of wear and detonation spots that can be seen on the piston crown.

 

I know I can't make the same HP of a V8, 500HP on a small block V8 is a common thing now days, but I'm aiming to pass the 350+HP on the wheels with this NA, a sleeper car is always fun on the streets, and no one is expecting that from a stock looking MJ, specially not the tuned lawnmowers.

 

if you look a the number on a wheel dyno on the output of a stock XJ or MJ they just make you want to cry, they are far out from the claimed 180+HP from factory, I know we are talking about wheel dyno and not a Engine Dyno but looking at the numbers for sure it is not a 180HP engine, those numbers like most engine factories are in perfect conditions.