Clay Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hello all. This is a saga, so I'll try to keep it quick but detailed. I have an 88 MJ, 4.0, manual 4x4. It had the BA10 in it, which froze up in first gear, which was awesome. So, I went to the yard and got a transmission and transfer case out of a 93 XJ. I figured that this would be the easiest way. Both my old transmission and transfer case had over 300k on them, so it was time for an upgrade anyways. Plus, that way I would avoid the 21 to 23 spline modification. So, the old setup comes out. In comes an 88 flywheel, a 93 clutch kit (internal slave) and the newish gearbox. I put it all back together . . . and it doesn't work. It felt as though there were a wall blocking me shifting into any drive gears, and awful grinding trying to shift into reverse. At this point I figured that I had done something wrong, but life got really busy all of a sudden, so I put this project on hold and readdressed it this past weekend. I tore the whole thing apart to see if there were any very obvious mistakes. There was nothing glaring. At this point I should say that I took my old crossmember from the BA10 and refabricated it to match the one for the AX15. It all fits straight and true, but maybe that could cause a problem? I don't know. With the old transfer having a vacuum switch and the new one not, I plug the vacuum lines (as I had read to do) and put everything back together, hoping for different results, but get none. Same not shifting / grinding terribly. With the clutch depressed I can change between two wheel and four, no problem. I still couldn't shift, though. This is where I might get some fingers shaken at me, but I had to try . . . I removed the rear drive shaft and started the truck. With no rear drive shaft I could shift into drive gears, but still not into reverse. Into gear, though, it shifted smoothly, with no grinding or ticking, so I assume that that means the new clutch is working. Also, in two wheel the front drive shaft would spin slowly, but with no torque behind it. No power was being transferred to the front wheels. In four wheel, I could still shift, but the front drive shaft would spin faster and faster, depending on the gear and the throttle. I know that it should do this, but I would prefer that it was doing it and moving the vehicle down the road at the same time. I messed with the vacuum lines, seeing if unplugging and plugging them in a totally random order would have any effect, and it didn't seem too. So, that's all I know. The rear drive shaft went back on, and the truck still doesn't move. I had no problems with the any of the installations. It all went together easy as pie, but something didn't come out right. Vacuum? Faulty something? I don't know. Sorry for the essay here, but I figured that too much information would be better than too little. This truck has to be running in about a week and a half, as I've got this big job waaaaay cross town. Either that or I need to get a new truck, which I don't want to do. That said, thanks a million already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The clutch is not disengaging. Try shifting into first gear without the engine running, then starting it in gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankTheDog Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The reason your front axle isn't driving is because it needs vacuum to engage the shift fork to drive the wheels. There should be a write up on how to permenatly engage the front axle shift fork. Did you know for sure the transmission you put in was in good working order? Are you sure of the condition of the rear end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankTheDog Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 With the engine off, depress the clutch and see if you can turn the driveshafts. You'll have to get the wheels off the ground so you're not trying to drive the axles. If you can't turn it you probably have a slave cylinder issue or some other clutch issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankTheDog Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Where are you located? Another member might be able to swing by to help diagnose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 hydraulics issue in the clutch. probably should re-bleed the system. maybe a bad master cylinder that was the cause of the initial issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Vacuum and all the rest of that does not affect the clutch or the transmission. What affects the clutch and transmission is the clutch and the transmission. If you can't shift the transmission with the engine running, but it will shift with the engine turned off, the clutch is not disengaging. First thing is to try bleeding it again/more, as already suggested. The other possibility you aren't going to like -- are you certain you installed the clutch disk with the correct side facing the flywheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 All very good suggestions. To address the issues that I can right now, I am in Minneapolis, and I am sure that I installed the clutch correctly. Upon taking it all back apart that was the first thing that I checked. I'll re-bleed the system and see if that works. If not I'll move onto lifting it, turning it and starting it. Then, I'll keep y'all posted. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankTheDog Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 When he does get all back together and working correctly he still won't have four wheel drive because there is no vacuum going to the front axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Easy enough to shift the sleeve over manually and shim the fork into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallisek Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Does your setup use a pilot bearing or pilot bushing? If using a bushing, it's possible the transmission input shaft is catching ont the inside of the bushing. This is usually due to the transmission not being lined up with the bell housing. The other possibility could be the clutch disc was installed backwards. This will cause the symptoms you are describing...believe me when I say this comes from personal experience. (Don't do a clutch job at 1am in the morning :shake: lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Does your setup use a pilot bearing or pilot bushing? If using a bushing, it's possible the transmission input shaft is catching ont the inside of the bushing. This is usually due to the transmission not being lined up with the bell housing. The other possibility could be the clutch disc was installed backwards. This will cause the symptoms you are describing...believe me when I say this comes from personal experience. (Don't do a clutch job at 1am in the morning :shake: lol) Not exactly But on the right path... Your 88 uses a smaller Pilot bearing the the 93 so your going to have to change the pilot bearing to get this corrected... 88 bearing http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=628318&imageurl=http%3A//info.rockauto.com/RB/14657-007.jpg 93 bearing http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=447751&imageurl=http%3A//info.rockauto.com/BCA/BCA_FC-69907_ANG.jpg The input shaft is pressed up tight against the crankshaft which is jamming everything up, I am surprised you got it toghther without noticing the trouble to mate them... There is no over the counter bearing so you will need to get one from Advance adapters or get a bushing made at a local machine shop... Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gjeep Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Additionally, wasn't BA10 21-spline and AX15 23-spline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gesso15 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Additionally, wasn't BA10 21-spline and AX15 23-spline. He said he got a transmission and tansfer case together. So no spline issues. I just did almost exactly this same swap, cept my BA10 was 2wd. It sounds to my like you having the issue most people are pointing to: hydraulics (ie slave/master/line) or a clutch. I would not expect this to be a transfer case issue as even if it was locked up you should be able to shift the trans as long as the clutch is pushed in. Did you buy a new slave cylinder when you did the swap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 As for the pilot bearing/bushing, didn't Pete do this swap using one out of a CJ or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 As for the pilot bearing/bushing, didn't Pete do this swap using one out of a CJ or something? I do not know Pete But I do know Conversions and the only way to use a CJ bushing is if your transmission is 1991 and older as the Input shafts are the same size, MOPAR decided in 92 for whatever reason to increase the diameter of the input shaft where it would rest in the pilot bearing therfore the only way to make a CJ bushing work would be to have the ID bored out to the larger size... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 I put a whole new hydraulic setup in it from a 93. New master, new slave. The pilot bushing is a new one for a 73 CJ5 with the 304. It took a little machining to get the OD correct, but the ID is right for the transmission. I was out of town this weekend, but in a about two hours I'm going to bleed the thing again and again and again, see if that helps. I've been bleeding it from the valve, but I'm thinking that maybe I should also crack the line at the master? Oh, and the clutch is definitely mounted with the "flywheel side" to the flywheel. I was pulling my hair out thinking that I could have installed that backwards. Fortunately, (kind of) I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I'm thinking the slave is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Alright, so I bled the thing until I was sure there was no air in the lines, then I bled it a few more times. That didn't do it. So, I put the rear end up on jackstands and spun both the tires and the drive shaft with the transmission in neutral. In doing so I found that my driver's side rear bearings are more shards of broken metal now than an actual bearing. Lots of grinding sounds, but none from the differential, so that's good. Anyways, I put the transmission into fifth, let the clutch out and tried the drive shaft. It didn't spin. The wheels would spin independently. So, I wedged the clutch to the floor and tried the drive shaft. It didn't spin, but the wheels would spin independently. So, the clutch isn't disengaging. Bad slave, right out of the box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 That said . . . If I'm going to have to replace the slave, (the transmission is a 93) can I simply get a newer model year clutch kit with the external slave and potentially avoid this headache in the future? If so is one year better than another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 So, I wedged the clutch to the floor and tried the drive shaft. It didn't spin, but the wheels would spin independently. So, the clutch isn't disengaging. Bad slave, right out of the box? Where is the clutch engaging when you press the pedal? With a bad slave that progressively gets weaker usually it engages further toward the floorboard until it won't engage (think "disengage" the clutch) at all and shifting is difficult or impossible. Where in your pedal travel does your clutch disengage/engage? Where do you feel the most pedal pressure, top or bottom ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 The pedal pressure is solid all the way through. There is a lot of resistance. More than with my old clutch, I'd say. When I started this project I made a steel clutch line to replace the plastic ones that tend to rot away. I don't think that it's a problem, since fluid travels from the master (which isn't leaking), through the slave (which also isn't leaking) and out of the bleeder valve just fine. So it looks like the new line is working fine and the fluid is going where it needs to. Also, I lifted the rear end off the ground and started the truck. I could shift, with a little bit of effort into all gears, including reverse. Reverse was the worst. Anyways, with the drive wheels under no load, it seems to work better. This is crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankTheDog Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 You will need a front bearing retainer and bellhousing from a 1994 and up AX15, possibly a different clutch to but not sure. I didn't have to swap clutches on a 92 to 96 tranny swap. I also used the master and slave from the 96. Worked fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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