JACKED88 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 ...I'd still like to have more than one template to compare against each other. I measured all three of mine and they're all within measurement error of the template/measurements I sent you. Your template/tracing looks great and the measurements will be a huge help. Thanks again. I'm pretty sure I have another one coming so between the two we'll surely be in business. I'll make several copies of both and start playing around with some of the requested modifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACKED88 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Sorry also guys I have been dragging my feet. Pattern will be in the mail Monday to jacked88 as discussed and anyone else that wants a pattern to compare to what they already have. I am going to go to my friends shop and see if him or his cad guy will make us a complete drawing also.Thanks!!! I'll be looking for um and let you know when they arrive. Thanks again. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Are any of the templates that you received dimensioned? I'd like to know how closely they compare to my drawing file. I know I have some issues under the three mounting bolt holes where the bracket clears the rear shackle bolt. Also, JACKED88 - send me your e-mail and I'll send you the .dxf file. It should be all that your water jet guy needs to get going (other than metal and garnet abrasive). I've cut a bracket from this file and test fitted it on my '88MJ so I know it works, but I am by no means guaranteeing its accuracy to be used for mass production. It's a good starting point, but it's up to you to take it where you need it. I just don't want to be responsible for brackets that don't fit on someone's rig because my drawing was 1/16" off. I'll consider this my contribution to the community, but I can't keep handing out freebies - guy's gotta eat, ya know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACKED88 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Wow!!! An actual blueprint? I'm impressed. I haven't seen one of those since I quit doing machine work. (I was a machinist for about 15 years ..... 18 years ago) And I called a "brake" a press. :shake: What can I say? I never worked in a sheet metal shop. The template and pic I received from Mike (fiatslug87) has some measurements but nothing we can compare to your print. Being an x-machinist I've got a pretty good idea of what it takes to make a print like that. (or at least before everything went high tech) As for the dxf file, that's a little out of my league and have no idea what it takes to make one but something tells me it isn't just a few strokes on a keyboard. Your having the right tools and sharing your knowledge with us will make a big difference in getting this project off the ground. I'd like to be the first to Thank You for what your doing for us. I didn't realize you were actively doing this type of work for a living and understand what your saying about freebies. With that said, we all need to thank you and convey how much we appreciate you sharing your work with us. So again, Thank You for your generosity and as you put it ..... contributing this to the community. I'll PM you my email address. Thanks again. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 From tracing a cardboard template, cutting it out, measuring once, twice, three, four times, and drawing the part in my CAD program - total time was only about 2 hours. Creating the machine code from the drawing was about 5 minutes and setting up the machine took about a half hour, but only because I was using it as a wood router previously and needed to put all of the plasma parts back on. Otherwise, it would have taken about 5 minutes to set up the machine. Cutting the part out was only about a minute, which can be seen from the video I posted. I then test fit the part on the truck, realized it didn't fit, and measured it against the Draw-tite hitch. I spent another half hour tweaking my original design and cut out a new revision, which is the drawing I posted above. So all in all, not much time at all! Technology has come a long way in helping reduce drafting and machining time. A DXF file is a universal drawing file that can be open in just about any CAD program. If a particular CAD program cannot open it, it's not worth owning that software. A DXF file is the PDF of the CAD world. It's simply a series of vectors that are laid out in the shape of your part. The CAM software reads the vector information and chooses a cut path for the machine to follow and generates a string of code, called G-Code. G-Code is pretty primitive stuff and the G-code file (a TAP file) can be opened in Notepad or Wordpad and easily be interpreted if you know what each of the commands mean. I'm going to e-mail you the DXF file that I used to cut the bracket out - it will not include any of the dimensions in the above blueprint I posted. If you care to view it, there is a program called eDrawings. eDrawings is to DXF files as Adobe Acrobat Reader is to PDF files. It's free to download and will allow you to view a variety of different CAD file formats. The link to download it is here: http://www.edrawingsviewer.com/ Machining isn't my main source of income. If it were, I'd be living under my plasma machine and eating the small particles of metal left behind from the cutting process. I currently do this as a hobby only and cut parts for myself when I need them. I bought my CNC plasma with the intentions of keeping it a hobby until I felt comfortable enough with it that I could start using it for production purposes. That time has not yet come, but it's mainly because of issues with machine, itself. Once I can get a new bracket made for my floating Z-axis and a bigger, cleaner, dryer air supply I'll be in a good position to start making use of the many CAD drawings I've made up for various parts for MJs, XJs, and ZJs. You're very welcome for the dimensioned drawing. I apologize it took so long to get it to you, but not having remote access or internet on the CNC PC makes it difficult for me to pull files from it since my USB memory stick seems to corrupt every file I put on it. I should probably just buy another one - they're like $10 these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I believe Autodesk has a free AutoCAD viewer as well. It is the software I used in school. At this point I think it is appropriate to give everybody who has spent time tracing, assembling, or creating parts of this hitch bracket a big THANK YOU. I haven't had much to contribute other than my interest, but have really enjoyed following the thread. Jeepers are great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I believe Autodesk has a free AutoCAD viewer as well. It is the software I used in school. At this point I think it is appropriate to give everybody who has spent time tracing, assembling, or creating parts of this hitch bracket a big THANK YOU. I haven't had much to contribute other than my interest, but have really enjoyed following the thread. Jeepers are great! Yes, Autodesk has a free viewer too. I mentioned eDrawings because all of my 3D CAD experience is with SolidWorks (the creators of eDrawings). I no longer use SolidWorks for making the parts that I cut on my machine because it would be overkill for that. I got a serial & activation number of an old version of TurboCAD from my office that I use for creating the 2D shapes and profiles to be cut on my plasma machine. It has worked flawlessly for that. Jeepers are unique in the sense that when we want something done - we do it ourselves. Jeepers are normally much more adept in machining and fabrication skills than any of the other communities I am a part of. Because of this fact, I know that my profit margins will be low when I start cutting out parts and selling them and that's okay. My main goal for my product line is to improve upon factory parts. I'm catering to the guys who want to maintain the factory look of the vehicle, but want to improve upon the shortcomings and oversights of Jeep i.e. rear bumper brackets. Last week I had two different types of people come to my shop and pick up some parts I was giving away. The first was a fellow from the 'import tuner world.' He came in nice shoes, jeans, and a leather jacket. His hands were clean as a whistle with not a trace of dirt under his nails. For a guy coming to pick up two engines and a transmission, he certainly didn't wear the right attire. The second guy that came later in the day was a Jeeper. He had a pair of dirty jeans, some well-worn work boots and there were still traces of grease on his hands from earlier in the day when he was wrenching on something. There was also a hint of 'gojo' orange on his clothes. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 My thoughts: -definitely integrate in the shackle bolt if you can. that's even better than my bolt (which was put there to integrate into the rollbar mount) -1/4" thick is plenty, but since the end user is going to need to weld in their own hitch anyway, I'd suggest a couple of small triangular gussets if they want to weld them in -can these fit into any of the post office flat rate boxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 can these fit into any of the post office flat rate boxes? I think they might fit in the Priority Mail Medium Flat Rate Box (FRB2), which has dimensions of 13-5/8" x 11-7/8" x 3-3/8". I don't know if those are inside dimensions or overall dimensions, but if they're inside, then yes, it'll fit: I've got those boxes at home - I'll see if I can squeeze it in there... Those boxes are $10.95 (at the post office) or $10.50 (online) for shipping. It'll probably be worth it for 1/4" thick plates since they'll have some weight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechion Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 can these fit into any of the post office flat rate boxes? I think they might fit in the Priority Mail Medium Flat Rate Box (FRB2), which has dimensions of 13-5/8" x 11-7/8" x 3-3/8". I don't know if those are inside dimensions or overall dimensions, but if they're inside, then yes, it'll fit: I've got those boxes at home - I'll see if I can squeeze it in there... Those boxes are $10.95 (at the post office) or $10.50 (online) for shipping. It'll probably be worth it for 1/4" thick plates since they'll have some weight... Working at the post office has a few advantages, like not having to wonder. I used the cardboard template I happened to have at work with me of the full side plate (still planning on the adapter brackets at some point) and test fitted it in the medium flat rate box after I got off work. Looks like it will nest in there quite nicely, at least my cardstock one did. Got pix of it, but can't post from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 So, Mr. Postman, are those dimensions for the inside of the box or overall dims? Just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACKED88 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I'm not even gonna try to pick apart yalls replies with some of my own. I'll just say Thank You for them and leave it at that. I do however have a question about the drawing and dxf file. What would it take to modify um to include the use of the upper shackle bolt? Would it require tracing another cardboard template, cutting it out, measuring once, twice, three, four times, and drawing it in your CAD program like before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I'm not even gonna try to pick apart yalls replies with some of my own. I'll just say Thank You for them and leave it at that. I do however have a question about the drawing and dxf file. What would it take to modify um to include the use of the upper shackle bolt? Would it require tracing another cardboard template, cutting it out, measuring once, twice, three, four times, and drawing it in your CAD program like before? What it would take for me? I would bolt my already made bracket to the frame and would carefully measure where the shackle bolt hole is and revise my drawing to include it. I would then cut another piece out to test fit and adjust accordingly. What would it take for you? You'd need a CAD program to open the DXF file and edit it. The eDrawings program I mentioned earlier is just a viewer and doesn't allow you to do editing, but maybe the paid "professional" version does? I'm not sure. On another note - looks like I just came across quite a bit of 3/16" and 1/4" steel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACKED88 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 My thoughts: -definitely integrate in the shackle bolt if you can. that's even better than my bolt (which was put there to integrate into the rollbar mount) -1/4" thick is plenty, but since the end user is going to need to weld in their own hitch anyway, I'd suggest a couple of small triangular gussets if they want to weld them in -can these fit into any of the post office flat rate boxes? Awww, come on Pete. 1/4"??? You know we always over kill everything we do to out trucks. Why should these brackets be any different? I've decided to compromise between a 1/4" and 1/2" and have my personal set cut out of 3/8". Whatever thickness yall want needs to be agreed on by everybody. In other words, one thickness fits all. Where are you proposing those gussets be welded? Are you talkng about to the bracket and the hitch cross pc? Other??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACKED88 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I'm not even gonna try to pick apart yalls replies with some of my own. I'll just say Thank You for them and leave it at that. I do however have a question about the drawing and dxf file. What would it take to modify um to include the use of the upper shackle bolt? Would it require tracing another cardboard template, cutting it out, measuring once, twice, three, four times, and drawing it in your CAD program like before? What it would take for me? I would bolt my already made bracket to the frame and would carefully measure where the shackle bolt hole is and revise my drawing to include it. I would then cut another piece out to test fit and adjust accordingly. What would it take for you? You'd need a CAD program to open the DXF file and edit it. The eDrawings program I mentioned earlier is just a viewer and doesn't allow you to do editing, but maybe the paid "professional" version does? I'm not sure. On another note - looks like I just came across quite a bit of 3/16" and 1/4" steel In other words I can't do it. In consideration of what your already doing for us, you've gotta know I'm cringing at the though of asking you to make the modification for us. I can't bring myself to type the words. The brackets will work fine without the shackle bolt. Naturally they'd be better/stronger with it but fine without. I'm leaving it up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 as an engineer I like overkill :yes: and 1/4" is technically overkill. a perfectly strong hitch can be made from 3/16" with a more elaborate design. 1/4" seems to be the industry standard for class 3 hitches. more than that is just extra weight. I did a ton of research when I was building my truck and I went with 3/16" bumpers with 1/4" brackets and I have difficulty imagining them deforming in any way. :D similar bumpers are on my buddy's bronco and they've been, um, tested several times and only have scratches to show for it. overkill is using the shackkle bolt. I don't think I've seen a hitch design yet that took advantage of that. and it seems so obvious. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 LOL. Don't feel threatened. The worst I can do is say no. I'll happily do the modification for the inclusion of the rear shackle bolt. The only thing I need to make clear is that once the DXF file leaves my hands, it's no longer my responsibility. If a large production run of these are made using my drawing and it winds up that my frame (for whatever reason) is different and this bracket fits on no one's rig, I can't be held accountable. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64 Cheyenne Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 This is coming along nicely. My commendations to all those who pitched in, in any way. Hope I ain't jumping the gun too soon, I'll even offer up my 88 for test fit/ product testing :brows: Sooooo.............. When can I put my name on a List? :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I've got an afternoon obligation tomorrow, but I'm going to see if I can get the new side plate with rear shackle bolt drawn up and cut in the morning. I found some old, rusty 14Ga. steel in my parents garage that ought to be good for a template or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACKED88 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 as an engineer I like overkill :yes: and 1/4" is technically overkill. a perfectly strong hitch can be made from 3/16" with a more elaborate design. 1/4" seems to be the industry standard for class 3 hitches. more than that is just extra weight. I did a ton of research when I was building my truck and I went with 3/16" bumpers with 1/4" brackets and I have difficulty imagining them deforming in any way. :D similar bumpers are on my buddy's bronco and they've been, um, tested several times and only have scratches to show for it. overkill is using the shackkle bolt. I don't think I've seen a hitch design yet that took advantage of that. and it seems so obvious. :dunno: OK, if everybody agrees ..... 1/4" it is. LOL. Don't feel threatened. The worst I can do is say no. I'll happily do the modification for the inclusion of the rear shackle bolt. The only thing I need to make clear is that once the DXF file leaves my hands, it's no longer my responsibility. If a large production run of these are made using my drawing and it winds up that my frame (for whatever reason) is different and this bracket fits on no one's rig, I can't be held accountable. :D Naaa, I don't feel threatened. I just didn't want to sound ungrateful or for you to think what you've so generously offered wasn't good enough. I felt much better after reading your reply saying you'd "happily" do the modification for us. With that said, you probably shouldn't have shown quite as much enthusiasm in saying you'd "happily" do the modification. Why? Because we have may need a second bracket with an additional modification. That second bracket/modification being what a couple of us were talking about by designing a bracket that would have both the hitch and rear bumper mount in one bracket. A combo so to speak. I said we may need a second bracket because I don't think everybody that just wants hitch brackets will want to have to remove their stock bumper brackets. To be honest I'm not sure I understand why a person would remove their perfectly good bumper brackets and only have one bracket for both their hitch and bumper. Lets suppose for some reason you want to remove your hitch from your truck. Guess what? You can't remove just the hitch if your brackets support both the hitch and bumper. I think a combo bracket might be better suited for those who intend to build their own rear bumpers. Then again, if your gonna build your own bumper wouldn't you incorporate a hitch into it making the hitch part of a combo brackets useless? What? Now we need three different brackets? A hitch only for those who just want a hitch, a bumper only for those who wanna build their own bumpers and a combo for those who feel the need to remove their perfectly good stock bumper brackets. The more I think about it the more I think we aughta make one bracket (the combo) and you can cut off whatever part you don't want. I think we need a little more input before we start making additional modifications or brackets. The only thing I need to make clear is that once the DXF file leaves my hands, it's no longer my responsibility. If a large production run of these are made using my drawing and it winds up that my frame (for whatever reason) is different and this bracket fits on no one's rig, I can't be held accountable. :DNether can I. This is probably as good a time as any to put this out there. We will try our best to make these brackets fit as closely as possible. However if for some reason they don't fit your rig, get out your drill, grinder, file or whatever you have and do what ya gotta do to make um fit. There will be no guarantees nor will there be any returns. If you feel as though this is going to be a problem ..... simply don't order any. Hows that for covering our a-sses??? LOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I wasn't able to get around to altering my bracket design to include the rear shackle bolt. Found a buyer for the engine/trans in my 99XJ so I spent quite a bit of time getting it all ready to yank out of the engine bay. I'll be back on this next week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACKED88 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I wasn't able to get around to altering my bracket design to include the rear shackle bolt. Found a buyer for the engine/trans in my 99XJ so I spent quite a bit of time getting it all ready to yank out of the engine bay. I'll be back on this next week...No hurry Tim. I've got a full plate of other priorities I need to concentrate on right now anyway. It'll be at least a week or two before I can get back on these brackets. We've got plenty of it so take your time. I need to Thank You again for doing this for me/us. More later. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Are any of the templates that you received dimensioned? I'd like to know how closely they compare to my drawing file. I know I have some issues under the three mounting bolt holes where the bracket clears the rear shackle bolt. Also, JACKED88 - send me your e-mail and I'll send you the .dxf file. It should be all that your water jet guy needs to get going (other than metal and garnet abrasive). I've cut a bracket from this file and test fitted it on my '88MJ so I know it works, but I am by no means guaranteeing its accuracy to be used for mass production. It's a good starting point, but it's up to you to take it where you need it. I just don't want to be responsible for brackets that don't fit on someone's rig because my drawing was 1/16" off. I'll consider this my contribution to the community, but I can't keep handing out freebies - guy's gotta eat, ya know! I'm trying to copy your drawing into AutoCAD, but your dimensions don't include either the radius or the center point for any of the radiused corners. Without those bits of data, it's impossible to draw it. I can't tell what the dimensions you provide actually relate to -- the nodes (midponts_ on the radii, perhaps? I'f you're willing to send me a copy of the .DXF, I can make it into an AutoCAD drawing. My newest version is AutoCAD LT 2000, so the .DXF may have to be saved back a couple of versions. Let me know if I should send you an e-mail address. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I believe the dimensions were from the midpoint of the radii. PM me your e-mail address and I can send the file in an AutoCAD format that will work with the programs you referenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkenvol Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 How far up from the bottom should the 2" square cutout be if 2" square tubing is used to weld between the brackets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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