Squeegy410 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 My dad was introduced to a man once who had a Ford Jeep. During WWII Jeep was pumping out more jeeps than the could handle and ford helped them pick up some of the slack. The problem was Ford's version was almost identicle body wise (the jeep design and no roof), but had a ford engine and indepent suspension on both axles. The suspension caused nearly all of them to flip, and it killed a ton of people. The roads they were trying to drive these things on were hardly roads and when they hit a bump, jumped a hill, or fell in a rut they had the tendancy to recoil and land on top of the passengers. This is why I had never even heard of a Ford Jeep until yesterday, because there are very few still left. I found this very interesting and figurd other people would too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 There's 2 separate stories mixed in there. The IFS/IRS vehicle you're referring to was the MUTT. It came out in 1959. Ford was indeed making Jeeps during WWII, but they were pretty much the same thing as Willys was making, just with a ford logo here and there. :D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M151_MUTT WWII Jeeps made by Ford: http://www.jeepfamily.com/Year_Guide/19 ... rd_GPW.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegy410 Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 Maybe it wasnt ifs/irs under the fords, I think it was a weird A frame design or something, but whatever it was they did flip like mad. I'm just going based on the storey i was told yesterday, and i know it was all based on the ford because thats the vehicle my dad was looking at and even considered buying, but of course the guy wanted 3,500 for a car that was locked up and rusted to pieces. :ack: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 The flipping issue was a problem with the mutts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegy410 Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 gotcya. i really don't know enough about the subject to argue it. jsut one story about one vehicle, and somone could have definately got their wires crossed before it got to me haha. I just thought it was very interesting. what exactly is a mutt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver88 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 I can attest to what Pete said. When I was at Ft. Irwin in the 80's it was a common event. In 84( IIRC) our full Bird's jeep flipped. His driver was thrown clear, the Colonel didn't make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 gotcya. i really don't know enough about the subject to argue it. jsut one story about one vehicle, and somone could have definately got their wires crossed before it got to me haha. I just thought it was very interesting. what exactly is a mutt? The mutt is the vehicle in the photo Pete posted, with the horizontal grille slots. Pete is correct -- the WW2 Jeeps were all the same, regardless of who made them. The mutt was a different vehicle, that followed the WW2 Jeeps. We had the mutts in Vietnam, and they were very prone to tipping over. Your source definitely does NOT know what he's talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimoshel Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Willys was the producer of the MB. Ford produced the GPW. Both units were identical and parts could be swapped between the two as per government spec's. When the first GPW were built they had the Ford logo on the tail gates. Military said "no way" and made Ford remove all of them. Old Henry not to be outdone, had the Ford logo letter 'F' stamped on every bolt head installed on a GPW. It wasn't discovered until the middle of the war and by then it was too late. Now at auto shows that can be the tiebreaker between to Jeeps, whether or not the Ford has all the F marked bolts. They had the M38 and M38A1 after the MB'S and before the M151 MUTT=Military Utility Trans At Ft Campbell, KY during the summer of '64 I had the un nerving experience of watching a M151 , Mutt, driver burn to death after losing control and sliding head on into a deuce and half. flipping him over and catching fire. It was not pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbulliwagen Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Another story I heard about the Fords, was that Henry Ford was worried that he would end up paying warranty claims on Jeeps that he did not produce if there was no better way ro identify the parts. He put the F on all the bolts so that if there were any issues that he would only have to take care of the ones he made. Only makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimoshel Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 This is a point can be discussed forever. The fact remains is you don't build a empire if your stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 the MUTT's were almost all cut in half and scrapped. a guy local owns one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimoshel Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Another story I heard about the Fords, was that Henry Ford was worried that he would end up paying warranty claims on Jeeps that he did not produce if there was no better way ro identify the parts. He put the F on all the bolts so that if there were any issues that he would only have to take care of the ones he made. Only makes sense to me. This very well could be true. However I doubt it for two reasons. Qne, Ford was an egotist and the idea of the army making him change something would drive him to do anything to show them. Two, all government contracts have waiver clauses in them releasing any vendors from liability lawsuits. Also at the time the US Government was Fords only customer and Ford had no plans to sell their GP' s to the public. They couldn't sell them anyway as Willys held the patents and all manufacturing rights. So no reason for Ford to fear any warranty claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpnjim Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 the MUTT's were almost all cut in half and scrapped. a guy local owns one. They STARTED cutting them in half (they're unibody BTW, I don't know if anyone mentioned that in the thread so far) to sell for scrap, when everyone, and their brother was welding them back together, they started cutting them into quads. And people STILL welded them back together. :rotf: :rotf: "Hey, these things are as unsafe as hell, so let me weld one that's been cut into 4 pieces back together, so I can drive it on the street" :doh: They did redesign the swing axles at one point, so they would flip less easily, (they still flipped). I guess the government did not want to admit it''s mistake, and go back to solid axles, so they spec'd the MUTT's replacements continue using IFS/IRS, but be twice as wide, and 4 times as heavy (Hummers). The government is funny like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gambit4000s Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 iirc after Ford was given a contract to build the jeeps, they put the Ford logo on the tail panel, American Bantam or Willys then redesigned the tire carrier to cover Ford's logo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegy410 Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share Posted February 26, 2010 Ok i see where the wires were crossed now. The guy was trying to sell my dad the truck and wanted to make it seem as rare as possible so he put the MUTT's story behind the Ford. My dad didn't buy it regardless haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Ok i see where the wires were crossed now. The guy was trying to sell my dad the truck and wanted to make it seem as rare as possible so he put the MUTT's story behind the Ford. My dad didn't buy it regardless haha. I'd jump on a GPW from WWII before I'd take a MUTT...I think that devalued it. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegy410 Posted March 1, 2010 Author Share Posted March 1, 2010 or it could have been the opposite. it coudl have been a mutt and he was calling it a ford. idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 Simple question.....horizontal slats or vertical? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegy410 Posted March 1, 2010 Author Share Posted March 1, 2010 i wasnt there its a second hand story ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerCOM Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Did you guys know that after the war, Mitsubishi aslo made a "jeep". Using the same stamping as the Willys' did with the exception or the replacement of the Willys' logo and name with that of Mitsubishi's. I can't remember about the drivetrain that was available. I read the article a few year ago. :USAflag: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Did you guys know that after the war, Mitsubishi aslo made a "jeep". Yes. Try not to hurt yourselves by electrocution from drooling over the keyboard: http://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/ja ... ishi/Jeep/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerCOM Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Nice find man. Never searched into it but 11 g's for pretty much a stock diesel 2a = AWESOME!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2360 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Here I am with my first jeep way back when. Actually it was just a loaner. Back when I was the OC's (officer commandant) driver for 15 Sp Sqn (fifteen support squadron) 1 CER (one combat engineer regiment). Personally I had issues with this vehicle. The independent suspension was OK, but that whiny rear end was really annoying especially at highway speeds. And the steering was worse, required constant concentration keeping the it on the straight and narrow. On a road move to Chilcotin for a winter warfare exercise I was driving north with the OC and had trouble keeping it between the painted lines. The OC got concerned and after a bit of a discourse and my explanation that the mechanics didn't think it worth correcting or not able to fix the problems the OC volunteered to drive. That was a short drive, I guess he figured our odds of survival were better with me at the wheel. He had me report it again to the mechanics but nothing really improved. Eventually they replaced the vehicles with the German made Iltis. http://www.m38a1.ca/iltis.html That was a better vehicle to drive. Had that puppy airborne on exercise once while listening to some Top Gun tunes. When I landed again there was a racket coming out of the engine compartment. Thought I did some serious damage, turned out the shovel fastened to the underside of the hood came off and landed on the motor hitting the fan. Whew! I was kind of impressed the gov't sprung for brand new Iltis's (considering most of our other trucks [6x6 deuce and halfs] were built back in the fifties, the MUTT's drawbacks might of been the reason why. http://img1.classistatic.com/cps/kj/100302/676r6/8420jke_20.jpeg Those trucks could go anywhere, and pack a load also. In low range maxed out in 3rd, you're looking at 11 mph. Anywho, I'm rambling, chow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sam Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Mahindra still owns rights to produce the CJ-2 etc, there are some crazy things going on in india with those things. One place in pakistan even has stamps just to make the willys and Jeep that used to be stamped in SWB jeeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegy410 Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 The same guy I bought my mj from had a deuce and a half for sale :brows: It was allitle newer than that bottom picture you posted, but it was a 6 wheel drive with a massive engine and it would run with allitle work. needless to say i had no use for a huge army vehicle seeing as how i have tractors and backhoes etc to do its job on the farm, but it was very neat :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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