Locker questions ?????

[cracker]

I hate my front spool and it will be swapped out for a regular locker at the first opportunity.

 

:rotf:

 

It is not that bad out here.

 

You have inclement weather out there so I can understand that.

 

Just because of the 'deal' I am getting, I will have a selectable in the front of the new HP60 axle but I prefer the Detroit Locker all day long :cheers:

[JACKED88]

as someone with a spool up front (ford dana 44), I can tell you that the chances of disengaging the CAD when you really need to will be almost zero. with no hope of differentiation, the system binds up and won't even let you steer. You'd have to find a way to eliminate all of the bind just for the hope of getting the CAD to let go (backing up, putting it into 2wd, etc.). And if you are successful, you're now sending ALL that power through one little 260 joint. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. :(

 

I hate my front spool and it will be swapped out for a regular locker at the first opportunity.

can't have disasters happenen. I would never run in 4x4 without both axles being engaged. Other than possibly distroying something on the driver side axle, running in 4x4 with only one axle engaged would pretty much defeat tha purpose of my installing a locker. Only while running in 2x4 would I dis-engage the axle. On tha flip side, only while offroad in 4x4 would I engage tha front axle.

Keep in mind that living in southern Texas we very rarely see snow or even ice so I'll likely never need 4 wheel drive on tha street. Only while offroad and crawling through mud will I want or need 4 w/d.

 

Questions of tha day .......

 

When offroading on hard dry ground, will a locker ratchet when you turn or will tha tires slide enough to compensate for tha difference in wheel speed? Again I'm just trying to git a feel for how a locker acts under verious situations.

 

I assume the answer to the above question will depend on how much gas your giving tha moter and how much torque is being applied to tha locker making it lock harder/tighter.

 

That is correct isnt it? Tha more torque applied, tha harder/tighter it locks. ?????

 

If you don't have any vac lines on your CAD, is tha pass/side axle engaged or dis-engaged?

[mvusse]

A lunch box locker will ratchet, allowing the outside wheel to overrun. But yes, the more torque is applied to the axle, the tighter it locks. I believe a Detroit does essentially the same thing. An Eaton Gov Lock will lock up (like a spool) when the difference in wheel spin is above a certain threshold, but only at slower speeds.

 

Selectable lockers, however, are essentially a spool when engaged.

[cracker]

Selectable lockers, however, are essentially a spool when engaged.

 

Bingo. :thumbsup:

 

Most people don't realize this.

[BREEZE1]

I'm running lock rights front and rear, I LOVE THEM!!!! i hear the aussies are much better, lock the front fist, then save up for the rear if you don't have the coin. you won't be sorry. its also easy to turn. i had a fully locked front in my old jeep, and it took the hand of God to turn it. just a word of advice. good luck what ever you do! :yes:

[JACKED88]

I'm running lock rights front and rear, I LOVE THEM!!!! i hear the aussies are much better, lock the front fist, then save up for the rear if you don't have the coin. you won't be sorry. its also easy to turn. i had a fully locked front in my old jeep, and it took the hand of God to turn it. just a word of advice. good luck what ever you do! :yes:

I know I should do tha front first but since my up grade to a 8.25 axle is hanging from an engine hoist in tha garage I figured I might as well git it set up tha way I want it before I install it.

 

Anybody got an answer to my question about not having any vac lines on tha CAD? No lines = engaged or dis-engaged??? We'll git to how and where to hook um up later. :hmm:

 

 

Thanks everybody for stickin with me through all this. I know in my quest for knowledge ends up beating yall to death with questions. Sorry about that but I can't help it. I gotta have all my ducks in a row before I pull tha trigger on buying something. On my budget I only git one shot to git it right. With yalls help and sharing of knowledge I'm not only better informed but also know whatever I buy has been tried and tested by tha best. :bowdown: Thanks again.

 

BTW ......

My next quiz for yall is gonna be what gears will be best with a 4.0, AW4 and 33" tires. Considering an AW4 is an o/d trans, I'm leanin towards 4.56's. :dunno:

[jeepcoma]

Anybody got an answer to my question about not having any vac lines on tha CAD? No lines = engaged or dis-engaged??? We'll git to how and where to hook um up later. :hmm:

 

No lines = no vacuum motor. The cad will just sit where it is, which would likely be disengaged. Even if you engaged it, then removed the vacuum lines, it would probably work its way over to the disengaged position over time. It's super easy to mod the cad to be fully engaged. Remove the cover (which has the cad shifter fork attached to it; have some rags ready as it will be a windy day and gear oil will blow in your face), slide the collar to the engaged position on the axle. Then take a look at the shifter fork. It's retained in position on a rod by a C-clip. Pop the clip out, hold the rod in position and slide the fork to the other side until it passes the groove for the clip, then put the clip back on. You can plug then vacuum lines or remove them, I traced mine back to a vacuum block that's on the driver's side at the tranny/transfer case and plugged it there. No matter what you do with the lines, be sure you block off the two holes on the cad cover since you don't want crud getting in there.

[Pete M]

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18415

[JACKED88]

Thanks for tha "how to" write ups and pix guys. Their both very helpful.

 

You said you traced your vac lines back to "a vacuum block that's on the driver's side at the tranny/transfer case to a block". So what controls tha vacuum?

 

My truck started out as a 2x4 and may not have some of the 4x4 components. With that in mind, I need to know what components are needed for tha 4x4 system to work properly, which components I may already have and where everything is supposed to be located. (switches, wires, valves, whatever)

[jeepcoma]

I believe it's controlled from the transfer case but I'm not positive on that. The vacuum is supposed to pull the CAD in one direction when in 2x4 (to keep it disengaged) and then reverse the pull when in 4x4 (to engage). I'm not sure how the t-case actually controls that though except that it must be operated somehow by the lever.

[Eagle]

My next quiz for yall is gonna be what gears will be best with a 4.0, AW4 and 33" tires. Considering an AW4 is an o/d trans, I'm leanin towards 4.56's. :dunno:

4.88s

[JACKED88]

I believe it's controlled from the transfer case but I'm not positive on that. The vacuum is supposed to pull the CAD in one direction when in 2x4 (to keep it disengaged) and then reverse the pull when in 4x4 (to engage). I'm not sure how the t-case actually controls that though except that it must be operated somehow by the lever.

That would mean tha t/c must have tha control valve on it or in it with 3 lines connected to it. One primary vac line from tha intake and two more going out to the CAD for engage and disengage. Thats so easy even a caveman can do it. :rotf:

 

 

4.88's huh? Sounds pretty low. Is that keeping in mind that the only hill's we have to climb around here are freeway overpasses?

[Blue XJ]

I'd go 4.56. I ran a 4.0/AW4 with 32" BFG's and 4.56's, plenty of power, at 70 I think I was right at 2500rpm on the motor. It didn't hurt my mileage either, was still getting 19+ on the highway.

 

If you could wait another week or two, I will have a Powertrax NoSlip out of my 8.25 for sale. I'm swapping it out for an ARB nd will be looking to sell the old one.

[JACKED88]

I'd go 4.56. I ran a 4.0/AW4 with 32" BFG's and 4.56's, plenty of power, at 70 I think I was right at 2500rpm on the motor. It didn't hurt my mileage either, was still getting 19+ on the highway.

 

 

 

If you could wait another week or two, I will have a Powertrax NoSlip out of my 8.25 for sale. I'm swapping it out for an ARB nd will be looking to sell the old one.

Was that running in overdrive?

 

I read up a little on a Powertrax.

http://www.4x4wire.com/reviews/no-slip/review/?

Why are you taking it out?

 

No problem waiting. I can't afford to do squat right now. Maybe I'll be able to swing it in a few weeks. Otherwise thanks for tha offer and do what ya gotta do.

[Blue XJ]

I guess it was overdrive, whatever your in when the shifter is in 'drive'.

 

I'm taking it out to upgrade to an ARB. I toasted another pinion bearing, so I figured while the carrier is out and the gears are getting reset, I might as well upgrade. Now I have ARB's front and rear.

 

I'll let you know when its available, I can't do gears myself, so the axle is at my buddies shop, he should have it done next week sometime. I'm not sure what a used Powertrax is worth, but I was looking for like $325 or so.

[Eagle]

4.88's huh? Sounds pretty low. Is that keeping in mind that the only hill's we have to climb around here are freeway overpasses?

With 33" tires and 4.88 gears, in overdrive 70 MPH is 2700 RPM. That's not excessively "low" gearing, that's right about where you want to be.

[JACKED88]

I'll let you know when its available, I can't do gears myself, so the axle is at my buddies shop, he should have it done next week sometime. I'm not sure what a used Powertrax is worth, but I was looking for like $325 or so.

 

==================================================================================================

 

I'm not sure what a used one is worth either but I do know what a new one sells for. http://www.quadratec.com/products/76104 ... QSHOPGBASE

$325 sounds a little steep knowing you can buy a new one for $110 more.

I appreciate the offer but I just don't have tha cash so I'm gonna have to pass.

 

Thanks again.

[JACKED88]

4.88's huh? Sounds pretty low. Is that keeping in mind that the only hill's we have to climb around here are freeway overpasses?

With 33" tires and 4.88 gears, in overdrive 70 MPH is 2700 RPM. That's not excessively "low" gearing, that's right about where you want to be.

I try to do as little freeway driving as humanly possible, :nuts: so going with tha lower 4.88's shouldnt be a problem for rural street driving.

[Darren]

I'd go with 4.56's. My buddy runs 33's with a 4.0l and AW4. Feels perfect, I think 4.88 would be too low for mostly street driving. But if you spend most your time on the trail, well thats another story.

[JACKED88]

I'd go with 4.56's. My buddy runs 33's with a 4.0l and AW4. Feels perfect, I think 4.88 would be too low for mostly street driving. But if you spend most your time on the trail, well thats another story.

In other words ..... flip a coin. Heads/4.56's Tails/4.88's Here we go ........... Tails it is. :thumbsup:

 

OK, so even if 4.88's are a little low for mostly street driving, I'll have plenty of power to chunk mud from all four corners.

 

To be honest its gonna boil down to $$$. Whichever sets I can git tha best deal on at tha time. I'm sure either would work fine.

 

Now, who's gears? Motive, Superior, Richmond, Other???

[Blue XJ]

I'd look around a bit. I just bought a set of Precision 4.56's for a decent price. I haven't looked for anything deeper lately, but I know when i regeared originally a few years ago, 4.56 was the deepest you can go in the 8.25, you might not be able to go to 4.88's

[JACKED88]

I'd look around a bit. I just bought a set of Precision 4.56's for a decent price. I haven't looked for anything deeper lately, but I know when i regeared originally a few years ago, 4.56 was the deepest you can go in the 8.25, you might not be able to go to 4.88's

Superior has um. Thier pretty proud of um too.

http://www.superioraxlegear.com/chrysle ... 10605.html

 

These are a little less but don't say who makes um. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHRYSLER ... ccessories

 

I searched countless manufacturers and suppliers who sell several different makes of gears. Superior was the the only manufacturer I could find that listed 4.88's for an 8.25. I'm bettin tha ones on ebay are Superior's as well.

[LEAD_NOT_FOLLOW]

Nitro-Gear also makes 4.88 for the 8.25"

 

http://www.nitro-gear.com/news/2008/8/2 ... r-825.html

[JACKED88]

Nitro-Gear also makes 4.88 for the 8.25"

 

http://www.nitro-gear.com/news/2008/8/2 ... r-825.html

Cool. Their a little less proud of um too. Thanks!!!

 

Whats this? (NEEDS NOTCHED CROSS PIN OR GRIND) I assume there must be some kind of a clearance issue with 4.88's. ????? don't you either have to grind a notch in the ends of tha pins or grind clearance in tha dif housing so tha pins don't hit it?

 

Oh, I lost that bet on who makes tha gears I found on ebay. Sent an email asking who makes um and got a reply back saying thier USA Standard.

 

 

Going back a ways, most everybody agreed that Aussie's are tha best bang for tha buck as far as lockers go. However, if I wanted to go with an Aussie in tha front and a LSD in tha rear, who's LSD works/is tha best?

From what I read, Auburn, Eaton and Detriot appear to be tha top three. Oddly enough, each of those are designed differently. Auburn/cone driven, Eaton/clutch driven and Detroit/gear driven. Which is better, cone, gear, or clutch?

I kinda like tha Auburn but I'm not so sure about their steel or steel cone design. Same for tha gear driven Detroit. Two steel surfaces sliding/slipping against each other sounds like they'd be prone to getting hot and galding. (regaurdless of lube) Clutches on the other hand were designed to slide/slip against each other. Maybe with all tha new technology those steel on steel units are OK but we all know that clutches have been well proven to work and last for years. :dunno:

 

Keep in mind that I don't hard core offroad. Just some occasional muddy roads/trials/paths. Nore will I drive my truck enough to wear out clutches any time soon.

[JACKED88]

Here's something I read about lockers and have a question about .......

"Automatic lockers cannot be used in front axles of constant 4Wheel Drive vehicles. Some vehicle manufacturers offer a part-time 4WD option and automatic lockers can be installed."

OK ..... so does that mean while offroad you can't run in full-time 4WD inwhich allows tha front and rear axles to turn at different speeds? If so, tha full-time 4x4 capability of a 242 t/c is then rendered unuseable and or worthless.

I don't git it. Why would it make any difference to a locker in your front axle if your rear axle was turning faster than it is? Wouldnt each axle still act independently regaurdless of front/rear wheel speeds?

Take our trucks for example. Lets say you have lockers in both axles. Now knowing that the rear of our trucks are considerably lighter than tha front, it would stand to reason that the rear axle/wheels could spin easier and therefore faster than the heavier front axle/wheels. How could that effect tha lockers in each individual axle? Particularly tha front from what their saying.

 

 

Any thoughts on my previous post?