CFC

[jimoshel]

CongressFoolingCitizens,,,,,This is a family site.

A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 miles per gallon uses 480 Gallons a year.So the average CFC transactionwill reduce U.S. gasoline consumption by 320 gallons per year.They claim700,000 vehicles so that's 224 million gallons of gas saved per year.That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil. 5 Million barrels is about 5 hours worth of U.S. consumption.5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs about $350 million. We spent $8.57 for every dollar saved.How great a deal is that? Jim

[avnsteve]

CFC was never about oil, or fuel economy or the environment, anytime the government hide one of their programs under one of those guises, we jump on it like lemings...

 

 

[RLCollins]

More numbers for you. Ignore all the fuel saving, etc. and just look at how the car BUYER got taken to the cleaners If you traded in a clunker worth $3,500, you get $4,500 off for an apparent "SAVING" of $1,00. that is, you could have gotten $3,500 if you had just traded the car in. So you just really are $1,000 ahead at this point.

However, you have to pay TAXES on the $4,500 come April 15, something that NO auto dealer will tell you. If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1,350 on the $4,500. So, rather than save $1,000, you actually pay an extra $350 to the feds. In additiion, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you have 4 to 5 years of payments, on a car that you did not need, that was costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making.

But wait, it gets better; you also get ripped off by the dealer. For example, every dealer was selling the Ford Focus with all the Goodies including, AC, Automatic transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500 the month before the "Cash for Clunkers" program started.

When the cash for clunkers came along, they stopped discounting the price and instead sold them at list price at $15,500. So you paid $3,000 more than you would have the month before (Honda, Toyota and KIA played the same list price game as Ford and Chevy) so lets do the final tally here

You traded in a car worth $3,500

You got a discount of $4,500

Net do far $1,000

But you have to pay $1,350 in taxes on the $4,500

Net loss fo far $-350

And you paid $3,000 more than the car was selling for the month before.

Net loss -$3,500

So who actually made out on the deal? The Feds collect taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4,500 they GAVE you. The car dealers made an extra $3,000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the manufactures got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. and the poor consumer get saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford. :fs1:

How many of these people are going to loose their jobs before the first year of payments - How many REPOS will there be?

I personally know someone this happened to with a full size Chevy truck

 

I'll keep my MJ :D

[NWPhotog]

Your numbers are so far off it isn't funny. In addition many people live in States where there are NO taxes on the trade in or even the new car sale! :doh:

[RLCollins]

Tell that to my neighbor, He is one of the ones that paid $17,000 for a STRIPPED Chevy truck with manual everything, that I could have bought the month before "CHASH FOR CLUNKERS" for $11,000 dollars without any stimulus money. He also recieved a 1099 that the dealer NEVER told him about, for $4,500 dollars, along with FIVE YEARS of payments, when in fact his old Chevy truck was paid for. The only reason I know this, he was venting real loud one evening telling me the story about how he got SCREWED with what he received in the mail which was a 1099 for $4,500, and how bitter he was about it. :(

[KYMJ]

Some may have gotten hosed. I don't feel that way. I saw it as an oppurtunity to get a much needed car for my wife. I traded in a 97 Grand that was plain worn out and needed alot of repairs. I certainly didn't want to drop the dash to replace the heater core. I bought a Sentra for less than invoice+2000 rebate and the cfc. Sticker price,19700, paid 12100. Don't think I'll get hosed at tax time, although I'll admit I didn't know about it, I'm sure not in a 30% tax bracket. I feel like I did ok. I don't buy cars just for the fun of it-I needed one. It has been great having a dependable car to be able to drive and the wife loves it. I am glad that the vehicles became available at junkyards, that was most peoples concern, the loss of usable parts. They're weren't many on my Grand, although it did have the Up country package. I simply got tired of keeping it going. I do, however enjoy keeping the Beloved Comanche going and I am sad that some were traded in. I kept the Comanche instead of the Grand. I put a lot of thought into any purchase, please put this to rest and don't lump everybody into the same catagory of being an idiot for doing something, there are always exceptions. It was an idiotic program that did me some good.

[AmJay]

Anyone buying a new car knows when they drive it off the lot it's lost more value then they got for their clunker. Don't they?

 

Mac...

[1990 Pioneer 4x4]

Anyone buying a new car knows when they drive it off the lot it's lost more value then they got for their clunker. Don't they?

 

Mac...

No, the “value” you talk about is if, you were turning around and trying to sell it. The real value is knowing you’re driving a problem free new vehicle.

[freakjeep93]

Anyone buying a new car knows when they drive it off the lot it's lost more value then they got for their clunker. Don't they?

 

Mac...

No, the “value” you talk about is if, you were turning around and trying to sell it. The real value is knowing you’re driving a problem free new vehicle.

but thats no fun....

[KYMJ]

Anyone buying a new car knows when they drive it off the lot it's lost more value then they got for their clunker. Don't they?

 

Mac...

No, the “value” you talk about is if, you were turning around and trying to sell it. The real value is knowing you’re driving a problem free new vehicle.

 

Right. In my case I got a brand new car w/a lifetime warranty for less than a used car with less/no warranty. Face it, this countrys economy was based on people buying into the notion of trading cars every couple of years. I didn't buy into it. I knew it was a losing proposition all along. And another fact remains, we MUST have transportation and you just try to do the best that you can do. I've always bought used, still had a payment, usually with no warranty. I'm feeling pretty good about my situation. Not my problem if other people get giddy about a new car they can't afford. Well, maybe indirectly, but we'll never find a cure for dumb people.

 

Now if only I can find the right Comanche or donor 4x4 Cherokee I'll be in business. Should have never sold my 4x4. I guess I could drive just about anything, but my goal now is to convert mine or buy another 4x4, paint, detail, and on and on...

[jimoshel]

The last time I walked thru a dealership garage I didn't see a single old car there. Just trouble free new ones.

That should get several responses.

[DirtyComanche]

The last time I walked thru a dealership garage I didn't see a single old car there. Just trouble free new ones.

That should get several responses.

 

 

If it's not under warranty, I struggle to see why anyone would take it to a dealer.

 

We will repair a helicopter (for a third party) at a lower per hour charge than a dealership will work on your car. As in, our shop rate is about $10-20/hour lower than a dealership. We assume all liability pertaining to the maintenance of an aircraft when we sign our name on it. As for the dealership, what liability?

 

That and dealer parts pricing is absurd. I 'inquired' about a radiator and a coolant expansion bottle. The radiator was quoted in the 'neighbourhood' of $460 (IIRC), as they couldn't even give me a firm quote :nuts: , and the coolant bottle was something like $137. I don't think I'm welcome in that dealership to this day.

 

CFC wasn't about oil, or the environment, it was an economic stimulus. Unfortunately your government is unwilling to simple shoot their sick dogs, being GM and Chrysler, but would rather attempt to prop them up till the end (and beyond) in the hope of saving jobs. Your government's decision unfortunately was reflected here. So, now we have a couple of black holes to throw cash at for the hope of saving the jobs of people who are making (factoring worth of benefits) about $70/hour to be on a production line.

 

I pray for the day that the advances in robotics make these people totally redundant.

[jimoshel]

You can train a monkey or an ape to do about anything, An they work for peanuts,,er,,I mean bananas. Now if you can just keep the ASPCA of yer back.