Wheel rotates hard after changing front brake pads

[HOrnbrod]

I am still plaqued with a squeaking brake on the right front. I got a set of new pads and put them on the right front wheel, and after I got the caliper bolted back on I couldn't rotate the rotor. If I back off the bottom caliper bolt slightly, the rotor will turn as usual, slightly rubbing on the new pads. I put the wheel back on and ran it around the block; the brakes seemed to work fine but when I snug the bottom bolt back up I can barely rotate the wheel. I haven't done the other side yet. Is it normal for some new pads to make the wheel so tight or will the pads eventually "seat in"? I've changed pads on my 2WD many times before and never had this problem. Oh, and the brake still squeaks, but not as badly. Bad caliper maybe?

[jeepdoggydogB]

Don,

I had the same issue but on my rears, replaced the rear wheel cylinders and it went away. I would be inclined to think it was the calipers :dunno:

[jpdocdave]

ya, sounds like a bad caliper. and its not really a good idea to replace just one side of anything on brakes, and also not the greatest just to slap pads on without replacing or machining rotors. and they're so cheap now, just replacing them is pretty common.

 

long story short, over the life of pads and rotors, the two metals are worn and exhanged between the two materials, 2 new braking surfaces are required basically. i know many people slap pads on, but its just not "proper" :smart: :D

[HOrnbrod]

Yes, I'm going to do both sides, but the wheel turns so hard after I did the left side I wanted to wait until I found out if this might be normal. I also noticed that when I used the C-clamp to compress the caliper it was much harder than normal to push in. The rotors are only six months old, so I figured I might get by w/o replacing them. They are kind of expensive for the 2WDs. :eek:

[jpdocdave]

if the caliper was that hard to, then there's your sign. new calipers.

[UNL1MTD]

Do you have the proper torque on the Wheel Bearing Spindle nut? I know when I changed my front brakes, rotors, bearing, pads, I initially had just a touch too much torque on the spindle nuts and the rotor was hard to turn. That was independent of the caliper tough. Just something else to check. Good luck.

[HOrnbrod]

Naw, never touched the spindle nuts - didn't remove the rotor.

 

The local O'reilly's has new Wagner calipers ($51/ea) that come with new pads too. Just ordered a L and R. I'll also get the rotors turned and replace the two original front caliper hoses. That should cover it. :D

[jpdocdave]

good plan

[dasbulliwagen]

You will also want to check the caliper slide pins, if they are frozen in place, when you tighten the caliper back on the caliper should slide over on the pins to allow the caliper to float and not be hard on one side against the rotor. If you are replacing the calipers then youll have to remove the slide pins anyways, make sure they are clean and well lubed with some brake lube or lithium grease. Good luck!

[HOrnbrod]

The pins are in good shape as I removed both calipers a short time ago to lube everything up w. brake grease trying to get rid of the squealing. One last question: can I get away with just bleeding the fronts after I get everything back together or do the standard RR, LR, RF, LF bleeding sequence? Pretty sure I know the answer to this one, but I'm a lazy bastid. :D

[FxRacing282]

should be all set just bleeding them. a good gravity bleed and a few pumps each side should do it. your squeaking is most likely caused by no lubrication or goop between then brake pad and the caliper. not only do the slides need a grease (copper compound seems to work best as it does not dry up and allows a constant lube for the slides) but a brake pad lube which is actually just high temp silicone on the back of the pad where it contacts the caliper will rid the squeaking. if your rotors aren't blued or have rust on them and aren't gouged or dished, don't even worry about replacing them.

[HOrnbrod]

I'm dragging this thread back up because my problem persists - squeeling brakes after sitting overnight. Replaced rotors, pads, calipers, brake lines, and inner/outer wheel bearings and seal. No scoring on the old rotors. Re-bled the system, have a nice firm brake pedal with no fade or pulling. Everything's lubed w. brake grease (back of the pads, caliper contact points, etc.) as it should be according to the FSM. It's not bad squeeling, just aggravating. It only squeels after sitting overnight when tapping the brakes backing out of the garage the first 5-6 times, then about the first 4-5 times when going forward. After less than a block, no more squeel for the rest of the day. Oh, and it's still the LF side, same as it was when this all started. Anyone have any ideas? It's driving me nuts. :nuts:

[Automan2164]

Could the retainer pin on the spindle nut be vibrating around? Isn't much else that could be vibrating in that area. Maybe pull the cap, and put a little extra bend on the pin?

 

Rob L.

[HOrnbrod]

Rob, there's absolutely zero up/down or left/right play on the wheel when jacked up on the axle. I pre-loaded then torqued the wheel bearings to the FSM specs when I replaced the bearings and races. I've got less than 200 miles on it since changing everything out, so maybe it'll quit after the pads and rotors get fully seated? I'm hopin' anyhow............

 

I've read that condensation can cause rust on the rotors even overnight and cause squeeling when first run out in the morning, but it's never happened before in the eleven+ years I've had this thing.

[Automan2164]

I'm not talking about the tightness of the rotor/hub. I am talking about the through pin, that holds the castle nut from turning possibly being loose inside the cap... I was just asking if maybe that was loose. Could cause a small rattle if it was loose I suppose.

 

Just thinking outside the box for 'ya.

Rob L.

[jeepdoggydogB]

Rob, there's absolutely zero up/down or left/right play on the wheel when jacked up on the axle. I pre-loaded then torqued the wheel bearings to the FSM specs when I replaced the bearings and races. I've got less than 200 miles on it since changing everything out, so maybe it'll quit after the pads and rotors get fully seated? I'm hopin' anyhow............

 

I've read that condensation can cause rust on the rotors even overnight and cause squeeling when first run out in the morning, but it's never happened before in the eleven+ years I've had this thing.

Don,

It sounds like the problem is definitely metalurgical to me since the brakes sqeak when the caliper and rotors are "cold" and hence retracted (sitting overnight), and then they quiet down when the caliper, pads and rotors are hot (expanded). Could it be the "auto adjustment" on your calipers? How old are those calipers?

[HOrnbrod]

I'm 2WD. But I think it must be knuckle/spindle related as everything else is new. If I remember correctly, Jake (Akula69) had a knuckle problem on his 2WD, but I've forgotten what it was. Maybe he'll chime in here later...........

[HOrnbrod]

It sounds like the problem is definitely metalurgical to me since the brakes sqeak when the caliper and rotors are "cold" and hence retracted (sitting overnight), and then they quiet down when the caliper, pads and rotors are hot (expanded). Could it be the "auto adjustment" on your calipers? How old are those calipers?

 

Calipers are brand new from Wagner Joe. New front hoses too. I looked hard for shiny spots on all the pad/knuckle/caliper mating surfaces and saw nothing. All the new stuff I put on has done absolutely nothing to get rid of the cold morning squeeling. Brakes are much better now though and most of the stuff I replaced was original, except for the rotors and pads. :D

 

Like I said, the noise is over in a block or so, but I just want to get rid of it. It bugs me. Know what I mean Vern? :D

[jeepdoggydogB]

It sounds like the problem is definitely metalurgical to me since the brakes sqeak when the caliper and rotors are "cold" and hence retracted (sitting overnight), and then they quiet down when the caliper, pads and rotors are hot (expanded). Could it be the "auto adjustment" on your calipers? How old are those calipers?

 

Calipers are brand new from Wagner Joe. New front hoses too. I looked hard for shiny spots on all the pad/knuckle/caliper mating surfaces and saw nothing. All the new stuff I put on has done absolutely nothing to get rid of the cold morning squeeling. Brakes are much better now though and most of the stuff I replaced was original, except for the rotors and pads. :D

 

Like I said, the noise is over in a block or so, but I just want to get rid of it. It bugs me. Know what I mean Vern? :D

Don,

Did they squeel before you upgrade your 96 brake MC? Verne wants to know.... :D

[HOrnbrod]

Don, Did they squeel before you upgrade your 96 brake MC? Verne wants to know.... :D

 

No, they did not Verne / Joe. :D Ran w. the 96 master/booster at least a year (maybe two) w/o squeeling. Actually it started shortly after I installed the SpiderTrax spacers on the rear wheels. It has me completely buffaloed, makes no sense..........

[Automan2164]

Ok Don, because I like ya, I'll give you $100 for your truck... I mean... The squeak is unbearable, and I'll have to just wear earmuffs or something. I can't imagine its worth more than that. ;)

 

I'll PM you my paypal.

Rob L.

 

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

[87Warrior]

This is a shot in the dark for you, but might be worth checking.

 

According the one of the designers of the Vanco big brake kit for Jeeps, one of the primary issues with the factory set up is the knuckle wearing down where the pads ride. Perhaps this area worn down by over 15 years of braking is causing your squeak?

 

Although this is an image of my TJ (with the brake pads installed on the wrong side), you can see where the pad ends ride on the knuckle.

 

What brake pads did you go with? I tried to use the O'Reily Wagner rotors and pads on my TJ. That combo squeaked all the time when cold. Replaced the pads with EBC, resurfaced the rotors and no squeak.

[HOrnbrod]

87Warrior, I think you may have hit the nail squarely on the head. That's exactly what I'm using on the front. New Wagner calipers from O'Reillys that came with the semi-metallic pads, and new Wagner rotors, also from O'Reillys. And yes, I think the knuckle being worn down where the pads and calipers contact the knuckle surfaces is a good possibility. I have some extra anti-rattle clips left over from when I installed Explorer rear disks that look like they may work on the front knuckle too w. a little trimming. Why the hell Jeep did not use these replaceable stainless clips to prevent wear on the knuckle as most other manufacturers do is a mystery to me. Thanks for the input mate. :cheers:

[HOrnbrod]

Okay, I'm dragging this up yet once more because I FINALLY GOT THE DAMN THING FIXED!! YAAAA!

 

I'm gonna tell you all what it was in the hopes that it will save my 2WD MJ brothers the aggravation I've gone through tracking down the damn brake squeal. :fs1:

 

First off, the inboard and outboard front disk brake pads LOOK identical, but they are not. The inboard pad has the smaller pad liner, about 3/8" difference in length. BUT they will fit on either way. The last brake pad set I got had three outboard pads and one inboard. I missed it and stuck the two inboard pads on the right front wheel. The problem occurs when you mount up the caliper after fitting the pads and anti-rattle clips (more on these later). When you tighten down the two slide pins that the caliper rides on, the top pin bottoms out just enough to C#*@ the caliper so that it will not ride squarely on the caliper bracket sliding surfaces, thus creating squeal. It bottomed out because I had two of the longer outboard pads on and the extra material on the inboard pad causes the caliper pin to bottom out. Of course, there's nothing in the FSM telling you this, just a fuzzy picture that shows the material difference between the inboard and outboard shoes.

 

Second problem was the anti-rattle clips. They are shaped like an elongated "C". The open part of the "C" must face AWAY from the rotor, otherwise the pad will rattle around in the caliper. Of course, these clips will go on 180 degrees out too with the open part of the "C" facing TOWARD the rotor (I installed one of them on each side this way) which causes even more squeal. :fs1: The FSM does say to install the bottom clip with the open end facing away from the rotor, but says nothing about the top clip. Naturally I put them in backwards. :wall:

 

The cause of the squeal was painfully obvious when I pulled everything down to change out the pads yet again with some new ceramic pads. There were bright shiny spots on the caliper and caliper bracket sliding surfaces. Luckily there was no permanent damage done though. Anyhow, hope this helps y'all next time you change front pads on your 2WD. :cheers:

[Hubbell]

I had or still have a squeel to it's my dust shield, there is one spot on it that when cold touches the rotor and every once in a while I have to tweak it a little bit and it goes away for a while. Just a thought

 

Chris

 

Edit: my two cents not needed since I missed the entire second page were you found the problem. :dunce: