International Salvage Rights/Laws

Part one of a two part story: Tuesday I got my 31 10.50 15 treadwrights all mounted and balanced on the 88 Chief. Sorry no pics, they're going to be in the build thread part next week (Part two). The weather was nice I just had to try the tires out somewhere. I was out in the boonies. Came upon this abandoned Exploder, I almost drove by. Decided to stop and check it out.

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As you can tell, these pictures were taken this morning, not Tuesday when I first found the wreck.

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Wonder what happened to the 8.8 with the tag that said 3L 73 on it?

Nice!, next home for this baby is under this truck!

I actually I first saw this thing nearly blocking the road, Laying on it's side, about three months ago. Looks like the BIA Roads Dept. drug the abandoned vehicle up the hill and off the road.

This brings up another dilemma. I put 31s on the 88, instant dog. I have a nearly done 4:10 8.8 lined up for the 87. I originally was going to run 4:10 with 33s on the 87, but now that the 88 is a dog with the 31s (it needs 4:10s). I think I should go up a gear size for the 33s on the 87 to 4:56s or maybe 4: 88s? Reason I'm willing to do the gear swaps is that I can, and that I just got a 8.8 for free. What about the 3:73s in the 8.8, how would they do pulling 31s on the 88. 4.0

:clapping: yoink!

Nice it was upside-down for quick and easy removal. :D

Or did you roll it?

Ahaaa. So thats where they stripped my Ford

Nope, didn't role it. Abandoned vehicle. Hope you all got that about the gear ratios. Short story is should I run the 33s with 4:10s, 4;56s or 4:88s. I have a 5 spd, don't really plan on 35s yet............

I ran my '88 MJ Chief with 3.73 gears and 31x10.50s for years. That combination was an accident. I bought the gears for the '88 XJ with the intention of running 30x9.50s. Then I got the lifted MJ, which came on bald stock-size tires, and my brother gave me his old 31x10.50s from his Nissan. The truck was a dog with 3.07s and 31s, I had the 3.73s, so I said "Why not?" and put 'em in.

It was okay but I wished at times they were 4.10s. Street was fine, but the crawl ratio (especially with a 5-speed) wasn't low enough. In fact, looking at road speed and RPMs, the 31x10.50s through 3.73 gears ends up being exactly the same overall, final drive ratio as stock tires with 3.55 gears.

Which reinforces my general rule of thumb, 3.7s for 30" tires, 4.10s for 31s, 4.56 (or 4.88) for 33s, and 4.88 for anything larger than 33s.

3.73's, with 31's was one of my favorite combo's I ever ran in an XJ,

but that was in a 5spd XJ (87' 4.0L 5spd).

I ran 31's on the 4.56 MJ (also 4.0L 5spd) for a while, I didn't like that so much.

First gear was only good for the first 50' on the street (if that), and the RPM's were starting to be more than I really needed for acceleration on the highway (@ 70+MPH).

If your MJ is an auto, 3.73's would be a nice 1/2 step over 3.55's, just a little more pep pulling away from a light, and slightly buzzier on the highway, that's probably it.

If you're looking for a more noticeable change, 4.10's would be better.

I personally really don't mind the stock 3.55's with a 4.0L/auto (1998), with 31's/32's.

A little less pull off the line is a fair trade in my daily driver for nice low RPM's at 85+MPH.

After daily driving way too low geared vehicles for years on end (3000-4000+ RPM's on the highway gets old fast), I really enjoy something that can cruise at 1800-2500 RPM's.

Our auto's & 5spds have pretty good first gears, that (to me) can make up for a little too tall rear ratio.

As far as wheeling, really technical obstacles aside, in a vehicle with 'not enough gear', I just spend a little more time in 1st/low range, than in 2nd/low range.

Honestly it took me more time to get used to the AW4's crazy approach to switching between 1st & 2nd gear when wheeling, than it did to adjust to some pretty crappy ratio's with the 5spd (like 3.07's & 32's).

The 4:1 ish first gear in most MJ/XJ 5spds can make up for a lot of sins

(my Javelin street car has a 2.23 first gear :ack: even 3.91's are barely enough foir decent acceleration with 27" tires,

and 3.91's + 27's without overdrive is horrible when cruising :ack: :ack: :ack: )

4000RPM @ 80MPH, with headers & loud mufflers is only fun for the first 5 minutes. :smart:

I find it hard not to say something here so I am just going to say it...

so you find a truck.. that could be stolen, broken down or someone is looking for it.. you drag it up a hill and pull out the rearend like it was yours to take...

when you first say it you should have doen the right thing and taken down the ser# and reported it to the police so they can take it off their books if it was a stolen truck or at lest find out whey it was out their.

not only that but if it was stolen the insurance would know and can sell it off as scrap or in an auction to get some of their loss out of it. another reason insurance prices are going up and up..

this may sound harsh to you but I am sure others that dead this will feel the same. I have to rank you with the same people that stoled the truck ( if it was a stolen truck) in the first place, you took something that was not yours.

and then you actualy broadcated it on a web site. well the people that stole the truck in the first place ( if it was stolen) were not stupide enough to do that.... so you rank higher on my scale of people that have forgotten whats right and wrong..

somedays I wish people would think before they take what is not theirs....

oh good luck with the swap :headpop:

I find it hard not to say something here so I am just going to say it...

so you find a truck.. that could be stolen, broken down or someone is looking for it.. you drag it up a hill and pull out the rearend like it was yours to take...

when you first say it you should have doen the right thing and taken down the ser# and reported it to the police so they can take it off their books if it was a stolen truck or at lest find out whey it was out their.

not only that but if it was stolen the insurance would know and can sell it off as scrap or in an auction to get some of their loss out of it. another reason insurance prices are going up and up..

this may sound harsh to you but I am sure others that dead this will feel the same. I have to rank you with the same people that stoled the truck ( if it was a stolen truck) in the first place, you took something that was not yours.

and then you actualy broadcated it on a web site. well the people that stole the truck in the first place ( if it was stolen) were not stupide enough to do that.... so you rank higher on my scale of people that have forgotten whats right and wrong..

somedays I wish people would think before they take what is not theirs....

You need to re read the post.... he didnt move it, and he had noticed it in the area for three months before he even looked at it. If anything needed to be done with it, it should have been done long before he took the axle out of it. The roads dept that moved it should have had an officer take down its info and taken care of it.... and maybe they did. Maybe it came back not stolen and the police washed their hands of it. I think enough time had elapsed that our original poster is safe. I think myself that hes lucky someone else like a scrap hauler didnt get to it before he did!

Taz, you can rank me how ever you want. But you weren't there. I first saw the exploder in Jan. it was laying on its side, nearly blocking the road. Beer cans all over the place..........Four months later the vehicle was drug up to the top of the hill by BIA. Now about morals and ethics, good thing I got the 8.8 when I did. couple more weeks when things dry out, that exploder will be a burned out hulk good to nobody. If I didn't take the 8.8 somebody else would have. Don't forget I'm talking about the REZ here. On our REZ, you cross the REZ line it is like crossing into Old Mexico.The same laws and rules off the REZ do not apply here. Just ask anyone in jail on the REZ. BTW I plan on swapping in gears and installing the 8.8 soon. Just have to decide 3:73s for the front and run it or switch to 4:10s F&B then switch the other axle set to 4:56s. Oh well gives me an excuse to buy one of those bearing separators. Oh yeah on the REZ you can give directions by: "go down that road, when you pass the third wrecked, burned, shot up derelict, your there"

One more thing, Taz, just who do you think is going to pay to have this thing removed? Towing company don't want it, he don't junk cars. BIA aint going to pay the wrecker fees. At some point salvage rules have to apply. I believe I've evoked them. I also had the GF inquire to the PD. to them its a derelict, no concern of theirs.

well maybe in your neck of the woods on a rez laws don't apply like anywhere elts I am only talking about where I come from... I am not trying to start a pissing post here just read post and had to say something as it does not seem to me that 2 wrongs make a right. that only applys in Math.. and yes someone elts may have taken it or maybe it would have been burned and no good but again 2 wrongs don't make a right in my books. and maybe in your neck of the woods the police don't care about what happens on the rez as you stated laws do not apply.

I read your first post as you drug it up the hill not whom ever BIA is..

anyway I have stated my point I think you know where I stand on this good luck with your swap. I have to go back to work to make money to buy the things I want as I do not take what is not mine I have to buy it....

glad I live in Canada where things are more black and white and not so many grey areas for peopel to do what they want.

well maybe in your neck of the woods on a rez laws don't apply like anywhere elts I am only talking about where I come from... I am not trying to start a pissing post here just read post and had to say something as it does not seem to me that 2 wrongs make a right. that only applys in Math.. and yes someone elts may have taken it or maybe it would have been burned and no good but again 2 wrongs don't make a right in my books. and maybe in your neck of the woods the police don't care about what happens on the rez as you stated laws do not apply.

I read your first post as you drug it up the hill not whom ever BIA is..

anyway I have stated my point I think you know where I stand on this good luck with your swap. I have to go back to work to make money to buy the things I want as I do not take what is not mine I have to buy it....

glad I live in Canada where things are more black and white and not so many grey areas for peopel to do what they want.

he made use of something that would otherwise be sitting there rotting.

If I had been in that situation I would have had my trailer up there, got it loaded, down to my yard where I would have removed what ever I wanted, and then to the scrap yard. Good haul '64

If I had been in that situation I would have had my trailer up there, got it loaded, down to my yard where I would have removed what ever I wanted, and then to the scrap yard. Good haul '64

i TOTALLY agree , and then some !

i mean really ................................................ :nuts:

Personally, I would never so much as take a lug nut off one of the vehicles I've come across like this.

I usually consider it a crime scene (stolen vehicle that was dumped there), and the most I would do is think about pushing it off to the side of the trail if it was blocking the way.

That said, the OP asked about gear ratio's, so I answered the question, and left the legal/moral question to the rest of you guys. :cheers:

glad I live in Canada where things are more black and white and not so many grey areas for peopel to do what they want.

That's a stretch. This kind of thing goes on all the time up here. Perfect example, go read BillaVista's Dana 44 build on the PBB from when he still had an XJ. Guess where the D44 came from...

If you don't legally own it, it's theft/pilfering/mis-appropriation,etc.. Now days the law doesn't apply to you/me/us/or special causes/etc unless there is a value where-by it will gain-fully benefit are purpose. It only applies to others who perpetrate crimes. them scoff-laws. There are measures where-by title to unclaimed or abandoned property can be claimed. It doesn't cost much more than a postage stamp. But we each make our choices.

I'm just trying to think if a day has gone by that i hav'nt broken some kinda law, or by-law, or comandment. maybe a couple of weeks agoe when i was just too tired from work, but even then, I'm pretty sure i did sumpin.

the examples truly are endless.

glad I live in Canada where things are more black and white and not so many grey areas for peopel to do what they want.

 

That's a stretch. This kind of thing goes on all the time up here. Perfect example, go read BillaVista's Dana 44 build on the PBB from when he still had an XJ. Guess where the D44 came from...

I was refering to in Nb that if you do something wrong its wrong.. does not matter if your on a rez or not its still wrong... I am not saying that people do not steal or take something they belive to be ok to take.

glad I live in Canada where things are more black and white and not so many grey areas for peopel to do what they want.

 

That's a stretch. This kind of thing goes on all the time up here. Perfect example, go read BillaVista's Dana 44 build on the PBB from when he still had an XJ. Guess where the D44 came from...

I was refering to in Nb that if you do something wrong its wrong.. does not matter if your on a rez or not its still wrong... I am not saying that people do not steal or take something they belive to be ok to take.

There's a point where you can be pedantic about rules/laws and then there is the reality. NB, NS, ON, AB, NY, WY, AZ... it's all going to go down the same. That carcass will be picked over because no one in authority gives a damn (on a res or not - that's hardly an issue).

In the end what will likely happen is some local 4x4 club will offer to clean up the area for the local municipality and only then will the truck get sent to the recycler. Happens all the time... this is hardly anything new. I know in this area the local 4x4 clubs have collectively pulled a couple hundred tonnes of scrap vehicles out of the bush, back-roads, etc.

Is the original situation "right" from a legal stand point? Probably not. Is it a big deal? Only if you get caught. If your moral compass has a problem with this kind of thing then don't partake if the scenario occurs to you.

Wow I mean wow there are some very opinionated people on this site today!!

For what it's worth........have you ever gone camping and collected fire wood for your campfire? Was it yours? Is it stealing? Are you going to Hell for it? Will you be a repeat offender?

The point is the OP got a good steal :D and none of us are labeling ourselves as thieves, I think I would have done the same thing. Call it stealing, or what ever you want, but at the end of the day I think I would sleep just fine.

I did.

glad I live in Canada where things are more black and white and not so many grey areas for peopel to do what they want.

I'm glad you live in a part of Canada where you are secluded from real life. Because anywhere else, including NB, the above doesn't apply.

The entire justice system up here is grey.