Been in a haystack, found the needle! ............. I think?

[WahooSteeler]

Went to work this a.m., logged on to dhl.com and was super excited to see the MT spring packs I found in MI from car-part.com were "out for delivery". Woohoo!

 

Well, I knew there was some risk in ordering these sight-unseen, but these things are so hard to find I said WTF and ordered up. They were listed on car-part as "5 plus helper" which the guy on the phone confirmed. Sooooooo, they've definitely been sitting a long time, pretty rusty, but no big deal as I think they'll clean up ok. I'm expecting to see one of these JC Whitney Husky helper springs added to the top of the stack, but instead it appears to be an add-a-leaf in there. In fact, it appears that maybe there are 2 add-a-leafs in there, or a total of 6, yes 6, springs. I didn't have a lot of time to really look at them closely but here is what I noticed. The 2 springs that looked out of place were the first after the main leaf, and the third one I believe. They were not tapered at the end and did not have the friction pads on them. I'll post up pics tomorrow, but I'd also like to see if anyone has some pics they can post of their factory MT packs, especially if they are off the truck.

 

Oh yeah, one other thing that is making me think I got a 4+2 and not a 5+1, the retainer clips not only didn't have the top bolt in them, but they didn't appear anywhere near tall enough to put a bolt through.

[offroader461]

My buddy has M/T springs in the back of his MJ...it had the 2 HUGE and i mean HUGE overload springs at the bottom of the pack...they are not AAL they are the overloads that differenciate the M/T packs from normal sets...he did a SOA with M/T and netted like 9.5" lift so he removed them and dropped the rear way down...Hope that helps

[Pete M]

I've never had them sitting side by side, but my 86 Metric Tonne leafpacks have overload leafs that look the same as my 88 2wd. And there's only one overload per side. :hmm:

 

 

This thread needs waaaaay more pics.....

 

:needpics:

 

 

My 86's leafs:

[Eagle]

All Comanches have the bottom overload leaf. That's just like the one in Pete's photo. That's a half-length (or less) leaf that it VERY thick at the center, where it goes through the U-bolts. The overload leaf doesn't have friction pads and normally never touches the other leaves at the tips -- there should be air space, just like in Pete's photo. It also doesn't run through the rebound clips.

 

The Metric Tonne springs have, I believe, one more leaf than the standard MJ springs. The extra leaf should be set up with the friction pad and tapered ends, just like the other leaves. Pete, your photo is the standard spring, right? 3 leaves plus the overload? And the Metric Tonne spring pack is 4 leaves plus overload?

 

The springs described in this thread sound like standard springs that have had a couple of add-a-leaves added.

[SuperWade2]

All Comanches have the bottom overload leaf. That's just like the one in Pete's photo. That's a half-length (or less) leaf that it VERY thick at the center, where it goes through the U-bolts. The overload leaf doesn't have friction pads and normally never touches the other leaves at the tips -- there should be air space, just like in Pete's photo. It also doesn't run through the rebound clips.

 

The Metric Tonne springs have, I believe, one more leaf than the standard MJ springs. The extra leaf should be set up with the friction pad and tapered ends, just like the other leaves. Pete, your photo is the standard spring, right? 3 leaves plus the overload? And the Metric Tonne spring pack is 4 leaves plus overload?

 

The springs described in this thread sound like standard springs that have had a couple of add-a-leaves added.

 

Pete's Pic looks more like 4+1 to me... Looking at the left edge, It looks more like 4 than what it does in the middle...

 

P.S., What's all that Reddish/Brown stuff all over you metal parts... Doesn't look familar to me... :D

[WahooSteeler]

I'll get pics up in about 20 mins. MT packs have 5 total springs. Yes, the flat bottom spring is the "overload" spring, then 4 more. Pete's pic is of his 86 MT, it's hard to see the crease between springs 3 & 4 (or 4 & 5 counting the overload). What I was hoping was that someone would tell me or post pics that the extra leaf in the MT packs was under the main leaf and therefore was not tapered and did not have friction pads. But before I even go look in my storage room here at work, I already know what I'm gonna see. A home-grown 4+2, which I bet was an AAL and then someone cut the ends off and put an MJ or XJ main spring under the original main spring. I'll tell you one thing, they are heavy as hell. 4 leaf packs weigh @40-42lbs, these gotta be pushing 60lbs.

[Pete M]

Yup, that's home grown Michigan cancer there. Truck didn't have any when I bought it (Cali truck that spent most of it's life in Oklahoma). I'll never bring another perfectly good rust free truck into this state. :(

 

But anyway, yes that pic is of my MT truck and it is 4+1. Saying that the MT packs have an "extra leaf" is a bit inaccurate. The main and overload leafs may or may not be the same as in a regular MJ, but the 3 between them are completely different than a regular MJ pack. All MJ middle leafs look pretty much the same at the tips. If one of the leafs looks different at the tip, or the tip isn't equally spaced amongst the rest, then it's been added.

[HOrnbrod]

The metric ton springs came in two flavors. They are both 5 leaf, but the leaf configuration was different. P/n 52001825 has 4 thinner leafs and one flat bottom leaf. P/n 52003676 spring has 3 thinner leafs and 2 heavy bottom leafs. These are the springs I have on my truck. Both of these springs have the same rate of # per inch but because the 3676 has just a little more arch they give a 1500# capacity, and also added 2-1/2" of lift.

[Pete M]

And there you have it. Part numbers and everything. :D Thanks hornbrod! :cheers: You wouldn't happen to know when each was available would you? Is there a year cutoff?

[HOrnbrod]

And there you have it. Part numbers and everything. :D Thanks hornbrod! :cheers: You wouldn't happen to know when each was available would you? Is there a year cutoff?

 

1990 and below were 52003676; 91-92 were 52001825. But of course there were overlaps as in most other parts. :D

[WahooSteeler]

Thanks Horn-Man. To clarify though, one pack provides some lift are more load capacity (due to arch), the other does not? What is the load rating of the other style? I thought MT packs were rated for 1440lbs? Is one style for 2wd and the other for 4wd? I would think so because after I learned (from you) that MT packs give @2.5" of lift, I thought a 2wd would have some serious rake. If there was no rhyme or reason, or year and model as Pete asked, the haystack just tripled in size because I might find some true MT packs but wouldn't know what I was getting. Unlessssssssss..........we can find some pics of each style.

 

In some ways, it won't matter because I want them more for load capacity and the lift was gravy on top. If I found some in the flatter style I can still get me 2"+ of lift w/out too much trouble. Just would have been cool to accomplish it in one shot w/factory parts. :D

[HOrnbrod]

Thanks Horn-Man. To clarify though, one pack provides some lift are more load capacity (due to arch), the other does not? What is the load rating of the other style? I thought MT packs were rated for 1440lbs? Is one style for 2wd and the other for 4wd? I would think so because after I learned (from you) that MT packs give @2.5" of lift, I thought a 2wd would have some serious rake. If there was no rhyme or reason, or year and model as Pete asked, the haystack just tripled in size because I might find some true MT packs but wouldn't know what I was getting. Unlessssssssss..........we can find some pics of each style.

 

In some ways, it won't matter because I want them more for load capacity and the lift was gravy on top. If I found some in the flatter style I can still get me 2"+ of lift w/out too much trouble. Just would have been cool to accomplish it in one shot w/factory parts. :D

 

I asked Charles at Alcan some of the same questions when I was researching the metric ton springs. The load spec on the 3+2 was 1500 lb.; the 4+1 was 1440. Not much difference. Alcan says either spring will net you 2-1/2" - 3" of lift. When I first put mine on I was at 3", but they have settled 1/2" over the last two years as all springs normally do. Made up for that with extended shackles which helped road handling. I haul around the camper, and with as much crap as I can get in the back, they never budge. Nice ride too w. the OME ZJ shocks in the back, and OME 3" lift coils and shocks up front.

 

Metric ton springs came on both 2WD and 4WD MJs. "True" MT packs will have the p/n stamped on top of the upper long leaf. When I had mine made up, they mistakenly sent me their "pattern" spring, a genuine new 52003676. This gave me a chance to compare the manufactured springs to the original. They were identical, including the arch.

[WahooSteeler]

Ok, gets real interesting now. I emailed the parts yard I got it from and the guy gave me the vin#. Under agedstock.com it shows the following specs below. Short bed w/6-7k lb. GVWR?? Huh? If I am correct, MT's were not available on the short bed. In their computer they showed the truck as a "4.0L 4x4 MT Pioneer with 4001-5000lb 'chaise' ". No idea what that last part was supposed to be, that's just what was in his email.

 

Looking at the pics you can clearly see the 2nd and 4th leaves were add-ons, especially the one after the main leaf. It's hard to tell by the pics but on that leaf you can tell it was cut down. The other leaf is not so apparent, i.e. it is a clean cut on the ends so is likely an AAL.

 

VIN Properties

Name Value

Vehicle Serial-Number 058684

 

Country of Origin United States of America

 

Manufacturing Plant Toledo, OH

 

Model Name/Code COMA

 

Trim Level PION

 

Body Type Short Bed

 

Engine Description 4.0 Liter MPI

 

GVWR Weight Class 6,001 - 7,000 Lbs.

 

Chassis 4X4

 

Brake System Hydraulic

 

Number of Doors 2

 

Number of Cylinder 6

 

Parts Catalog Model Code J

 

Vehicle Class Pickup

 

Model Year 1988

 

Make Jeep

 

Model Comanche

 

Model Details Liberty

 

Options Media: AM/FM Radio Tuner

Power: Steering

Engine: Cylinders 06

Door(s): Two

Drive: Four Wheel Drive

Power: Brakes

Daytime Running Lights

 

 

 

[HOrnbrod]

The towing package option included the 5-leaf heavy duty springs (and shocks) and was available on both the long and short WB models.

[WahooSteeler]

I have to disagree, the tow pkg did not automatically give you the MT setup. I have factory tow, factory D44, and 4 leaf packs. Now, I also have factory off-road pkg, which for some reason could not be had in conjunction with the MT pkg. So unless having this particular combination of pkg's created a factory delete of the 5 leaf packs as std w/the tow pkg, your statement would not be correct.

[HOrnbrod]

I have to disagree, the tow pkg did not automatically give you the MT setup. I have factory tow, factory D44, and 4 leaf packs. Now, I also have factory off-road pkg, which for some reason could not be had in conjunction with the MT pkg. So unless having this particular combination of pkg's created a factory delete of the 5 leaf packs as std w/the tow pkg, your statement would not be correct.

 

I have the factory tow option documented somewhere buried, will have to dig Wahoo. Maybe it was an optional option? It's late mate, I'll try to find it mañana.

[WahooSteeler]

Yeah, and I'll dig up my window sticker. Yep, was in the original vinyl owner's manual case and in good shape. I know it doesn't say anything about it in the sales brochure I have, but I also know that was about as reliable as a weatherman LOL.

[Wildman]

After Seeing you pictures on the metric ton springs, I snap some picture of the MT springs I got off a '87, 4.0 / AW4 / 231 / D44, lwb, that also had a trailer hitch mounted.

 

Compare these to your springs.......I think you'll see a difference-

 

 

And Yes, that 'brown' stuff is a "Special" seasoning that we have up north here, Kind of detects that the parts came from north of the Mason / Dixon line :D

[HOrnbrod]

Those sure look like regulation 4+1 metric ton springs. Under all that 'brown' stuff is there a p/n stamped Bob? Or has that "Special" seasoning obliterated the stamping? :cheers:

[beaterjeep]

SONUVA... does this mean I have what I think I have then?

:eek: Take a look yourselves.

 

[HOrnbrod]

Yep - those are the HD springs. Except unfortunately you have the "Extra Special" WI seasoning. Prolly the individual leafs have corroded to 1/2 of their effective original thickness. :eek: :eek:

[beaterjeep]

Yep - those are the HD springs. Except unfortunately you have the "Extra Special" WI seasoning. Prolly the individual leafs have corroded to 1/2 of their effective original thickness. :eek: :eek:

 

LOL, the back story I got when I bought it is that it's originally a Cali truck, then went to Jersey, then to Ohio, and now WI for the past 2 years.

 

It still sits pretty tall though, so..... who knows.

[Pete M]

SONUVA... does this mean I have what I think I have then?

:eek: Take a look yourselves.

 

 

I can't see the tip of the 2nd from the top leaf. Does the end look like the others and are all the tips equally spaced?

[beaterjeep]

Pete, yes. Between every leaf is an isolator, and they are all rounded at the tips.

 

EDIT for another pic.

 

[HOrnbrod]

Under all the crud you can tell by the leaf spacers ovaled shaped retainer holes and the spring clamp and it's position that they are original, unless someone years ago went to a lot of trouble using OEM spring parts while building a leaf pack.