Issues with Clearwater Cylinder Heads

[drcomanche]

I was wondering if anyone had issues with Clearwater Cylinder Heads? 

 

I recently found out mine was warped and ordered a remanned 7120 cylinder head. I had read in a bunch of places that they were reputable and respected for this. I just received the head and they gave me a 0630 head instead of the 7120 I ordered. They are listed separately on their site and cost different prices. I also noticed there mating surfaces were painted, except the block mount surface. The cylinder chambers and the tops of the valves also had metal "glitter" all over them. I could wipe my finger across it and see metal bits on it. If it's big enough for me to distinguish individual particles, I'm getting a red flag. And it's all over what I can see of the valve seats. Add to that some bits of oily residue and chunks still in there and what looks like gasket residue ,illbeit only a small amount, that's been painted over. I called them up today and that guy couldn't get me off the phone fast enough. He assured me that the heads are exactly the same and they interchange them all the time. I expressed concern about the warranty for it considering it was purchased and tagged as a 7120, to which I was told it's fine, they're interchangable. Despite the heads being "bolt on ready" I guess I expected a better cleanup on it, so now I'm considering pulling the valves to clean all the seats as well. 

 

Am I crazy or does it feel like I should be concerned about this?

[AZJeff]

Having small amounts of foreign material still present on a reworked head would not be totally unexpected.  However, gasket material still being present would NOT be acceptable.

 

The only time Ihad an issue was they sent me the WRONG head.  (A big block Chevy head won’t bolt up on to a 4.0 block, odd enough🥴). They fixed that right away, all on their nickel.

 

Can you remove the gasket material yourself?

[schardein]

I just took a 30 second look at their website.  Says the "head is complete and ready for installation".  If you have to clean metal particles and gasket material from it, is it really ready?  

[Smokeyyank]

I haven't used them but another person in my WJ group had major problems with them recently. Basically head dropped a valve seat in under 5k miles causing the engine to be rebuilt again. 

[drcomanche]

1 hour ago, AZJeff said:

Having small amounts of foreign material still present on a reworked head would not be totally unexpected.  However, gasket material still being present would NOT be acceptable.

 

The only time Ihad an issue was they sent me the WRONG head.  (A big block Chevy head won’t bolt up on to a 4.0 block, odd enough🥴). They fixed that right away, all on their nickel.

 

Can you remove the gasket material yourself?

Yeah I can, it's not a lot, but it's very apparent when they paint over it. I also don't want to touch it until I'm sure what I'm going to do with it. I'm a bit more concerned over the 0630 for a 7120. I know they can all be installed on a 4.0, but what happens if it has to get warrantied? I feel like they could just say "oh, wrong part, that's not what we gave you" when its a mislabeled item like that. 

 

1 hour ago, schardein said:

I just took a 30 second look at their website.  Says the "head is complete and ready for installation".  If you have to clean metal particles and gasket material from it, is it really ready?  

That's what I said to the guy on the phone and he replied with something along the lines of 'if you're going to just bolt it on, you shouldn't be working on it in the first place". As far as the paint and gasket material, he said it seals better with paint, to which I replied "I prefer it the old way, surface to surface". He said to just wipe it off with paint thinner. All a bit counter to what the website says.

 

I guess I'll send an email this time rather than call and see where that gets me.

[Eagle]

If the heads were exactly the same, they wouldn't have different casting numbers.

 

[AZJeff]

The following link explains the differences in the various 4.0 heads

 

4.0 head differences

 

I found this link on NAXJA

[75sv1]

     I have messed with the 4 types of 4.0L heads. The RENIX has lower intake ports. I think the injector reliefs are more pronounced than latter heads. The 91-95 are suppose to be the best flowing. Not by much, though. They and I think the RENIX have an extra temp sensor in them. The 96-99, do not have the extra temp sensor in them. They do have the location pins. They do have two exhaust 'D' ports, 2 and 5. I think the 91-95 and the RENIX have them too. I am ports two of them. I have put '95 heads on a '03 WJ block, and an '00 Block. You have to eye the location. I wrapped some tape around some head bolts to located the '95 head on my 2000 block for a stroker. The 2000+ or if a WJ motor 99+ heads have smaller square exhaust ports. Also, the bosses for the rail coil. 

    You can use any 4.0L head on any 4.0L block. Its the adaption of the Valve cover and the coil or coil pack. I have put the 93-98 ZJ valve cover on latter 4.0L motors, a '98 and a 2000. The 96+ just had two head bolts with location dowels for the VC gasket. I also plan to do the Viper coil on my 2000. I am having issues with the coil placement by the overflow bottle. The AC hose line is in the way. I am looking at locating it on the head and block. One person on NAXJA made a bracket to use the Coil Rail holes. I am planning to use two holes on the head. The '95 head has two holes drilled. They are the same width as the holes on the Viper coil. On the '99 head and the 2000 head, one of the holes is not drilled. The casting is the same in that area. Same with the 2000 head. 

[drcomanche]

Got an email back today. It was very short and frank but basically said the head is interchangeable, the warranty sticks, painted mating surfaces is normal, blemishes are to be expected because it's not new, and the head is ready to be mounted, but if I'm worried, just blow it off with air. I guess I'll try it out and see what happens. Can't run any worse than my old one.

[Eagle]

20 hours ago, AZJeff said:

The following link explains the differences in the various 4.0 heads

 

4.0 head differences

 

I found this link on NAXJA

 

Is that article missing a head? I thought the early 2000 4.0L heads (#0331) were prone to cracking and had been replaced by a different casting number. The article says the 0331 was used from 2000-2005.

 

Found it: https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1076299

 

It is very easy to spot a 0331 head. If the head has the coil pack over the spark plugs, and no spark plug wires, you have a 0331. The XJ went End-of-Life before the TUPY head was introduced. The introduction happened sometime in late 2002 on both the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee. If you remove the oil fill cap and look straight down at the floor of the head, between the cylinder 3 & 4 exhaust rocker arms, you can see the text string "TUPY" cast into the head. This is a casting mark and not stamped as many other threads have claimed.

If you don't see TUPY there, you may see a narrow row of green bubbles, following the curvature at the bottom of the #4 exhaust rocker boss and #4 exhaust valve sping boss. You can look through the oil fill cap and determine if the head is either cracked, prone to cracking, or that it won't crack in the future.

[Eagle]

On 4/18/2022 at 3:50 PM, drcomanche said:

Yeah I can, it's not a lot, but it's very apparent when they paint over it. I also don't want to touch it until I'm sure what I'm going to do with it. I'm a bit more concerned over the 0630 for a 7120. I know they can all be installed on a 4.0, but what happens if it has to get warrantied? I feel like they could just say "oh, wrong part, that's not what we gave you" when its a mislabeled item like that.

 According to that article, the 0630 and the 7120 take a different valve cover, and they aren't interchangeable.

[75sv1]

9 hours ago, Eagle said:

 According to that article, the 0630 and the 7120 take a different valve cover, and they aren't interchangeable.

Article is wrong. I have fit earlier VC on latter heads. I have a VC from a ZJ on both a '98 and a 2000. Also, the TUPY head is basically the same as the earlier 0331. I think they added material between the 3 and 4 exhaust ports. Also, made in Brazil I think. So TUPY is the plant where it is cast. PNs get fun as to what constitutes a new PN or not, according to a manufacture. 

[boxyjeep]

I had issues with them when I bought a 7120 head back in mid 2020.  They didn't fully drill/tap the temp sensor hole in the back of the cylinder head.  I called them up and they wanted me to drill the hole out deeper.  I told them that was BS for something that should be ready to bolt in and they gave me a hard time about a replacement.

 

I think they likely have too much business now to worry about customer service and customer happiness.  Would suggest looking elsewhere.

[AZJeff]

On 4/19/2022 at 6:46 PM, Eagle said:

 

Is that article missing a head? I thought the early 2000 4.0L heads (#0331) were prone to cracking and had been replaced by a different casting number. The article says the 0331 was used from 2000-2005.

 

Found it: https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1076299

 

 

 

The 0331 head is the reference for the design features of the head, and not necessarily the source for the raw casting and/or the casting process control used to create the head.

 

The "TUPY" designation on the later 0331 heads is probably some sort of foundry ID code.

 

When I replaced my cracked OEM 0331 head with a brand new one from Clearwater, I couldn't discern any physical difference between the old head and the new one, other than the new head supposedly was "improved" to prevent the cracking potential.  Then again, I wasn't using a 3D scanner to map the profile of ever casting feature, particularly around the rocker bosses, which are the weak point on the early 0331 head.

 

In a nutshell, I believe the TUPY head to be a 0331 design, with some sort of changes that are not visually obvious that reduce cracking potential.