Best ride quality lift kit? Not an extreme rock crawler

[MYE Jeep]

Hey all, 

 

Here's the story, I bought a 88 Comanche last year and have been slowly restoring it. Most of the body is finished up so I'm looking into suspension options. 

 

Current setup from PO:

Rusty's 6.5 Long Arm Kit

Rusty’s Trackbar and drop bracket

Rough Country 6610 Pitman Arm

JKS Swaybar End Links

Bilstein 5100 front shocks

KYB Gas-A-Just Rear Shocks

SOA w/ stock "eye bolt" shock locations

 

Anyways, the ride is absolutely terrible. I mean, probably the worst ride of any vehicle I've ever driven. It feels like a skateboard going down the paved road, un-driveable on any dirt roads. Insanely rough ride, and just feels unstable at freeway speeds when you hit a small bump.

 

I'm not opposed to tossing out the Rusty's kit, and I'm not stuck on a 6.5" lift kit.

My fenders are already cut, M Notch fender flares installed so there plenty of clearance for larger tires even with a lower lift. 

 

I own a Jeep rental company in Arizona so I don't need to use this as my "wheeler", and honestly after all the work that has gone into restoring the body I don't have any intentions of rock crawling and ruining the new paint, this is more of a weekend camping rig that should be enjoyable to drive.

 

So between a 3" - 6" lift kit what is everyones experience for the softest ride, high quality build lift kit? I'd like to be able to drive down washboard dirt roads at higher speeds comfortably. Budget isn't an issue, I'm happy to pay the money to make it nice to drive.

 

Additionally, the PO didn't have a front driveshaft in when I bought it, he said he had a custom one made at some point but the vibrations were a big issue, I've measured out the distance and it doesn't seem like a factory driveshaft will fit back in for whatever reason. So if reducing the lift size would allow me to put a factory front driveshaft back in, that would be great!

 

Please share your experience with different suspension setups and let me know your feedback. I'm open to all options!

[Smokeyyank]

Metalcloak dual rate, PSC or OME coils. For the rear either new leafs and keep it sua or soa with stock leafs. Will depend on how tall your going. I'd stick with the billi shocks.  If you don't want or need long arms look at control arms drop brackets and short arms. Long arms I'd go with ironman fab or stinkyfab. 

[MYE Jeep]

37 minutes ago, Smokeyyank said:

Metalcloak dual rate, PSC or OME coils. For the rear either new leafs and keep it sua or soa with stock leafs. Will depend on how tall your going. I'd stick with the billi shocks.  If you don't want or need long arms look at control arms drop brackets and short arms. Long arms I'd go with ironman fab or stinkyfab. 

Thanks for your input! I'll look into these! 

[MYE Jeep]

So I may have found part of the problem, I found a P/N stamped on the rear shocks and looked it up, turns out they are KYB Gas-A-Just shocks which are notoriously stiff shocks! So my next step is deciding whether to stay SOA, or go back to SUA and buy new rear shocks accordingly. I've always heard good things about OME, but from what I've read they don't make anything for SOA height shocks, so I would have to go back to SUA if I want to run OME. (Correct me if i'm wrong)

[ghetdjc320]

Some other thoughts come to mind first. You mentioned an unstable feeling when you hit a bump, what kind of steering and track bar setup are you running? My current setup that is also about a 5.5-6” lift is the following: 

Iron Man 4x4 steering brace system, track bar system with 1” drop and 1” dropped pitman arm. ZJ steering linkage (planning to upgrade to Currie CE-9701 for improved articulation range), rock road control arm drop brackets, metal cloak control arms and dual rate coils, bilstein 5150 series with 255/70 valving, later model XJ 28mm front track bar with iron man 4x4 relocation brackets, rubicon express seat bar disconnects. 
In the rear I have: 4 leaf 4wd leaf springs mounted spring over axle, addco rear sway bar (part 468), new bushings, bilstein 5150 series with lighter valving, ruff stuff off-road shock and leaf spring mounting parts. 
 

The ride is superb, no bump steer, great control, very stable in the turns at speed and plenty of flex off-road once the sway bar is disconnected. I’ve never ridden in a lifted rig that performed any better. If I were to do it all over, I would have to go with iron man 4x4 long arm kit also. For shocks, the bilsteins have been nice but I would recommend you get your shocks from accutune off-road. They custom tune them to your ride and don’t cost much more than the off the shelf options. They tune bilsteins, king and fox.

[MYE Jeep]

16 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

Some other thoughts come to mind first. You mentioned an unstable feeling when you hit a bump, what kind of steering and track bar setup are you running? My current setup that is also about a 5.5-6” lift is the following: 

Iron Man 4x4 steering brace system, track bar system with 1” drop and 1” dropped pitman arm. ZJ steering linkage (planning to upgrade to Currie CE-9701 for improved articulation range), rock road control arm drop brackets, metal cloak control arms and dual rate coils, bilstein 5150 series with 255/70 valving, later model XJ 28mm front track bar with iron man 4x4 relocation brackets, rubicon express seat bar disconnects. 
In the rear I have: 4 leaf 4wd leaf springs mounted spring over axle, addco rear sway bar (part 468), new bushings, bilstein 5150 series with lighter valving, ruff stuff off-road shock and leaf spring mounting parts. 
 

The ride is superb, no bump steer, great control, very stable in the turns at speed and plenty of flex off-road once the sway bar is disconnected. I’ve never ridden in a lifted rig that performed any better. If I were to do it all over, I would have to go with iron man 4x4 long arm kit also. For shocks, the bilsteins have been nice but I would recommend you get your shocks from accutune off-road. They custom tune them to your ride and don’t cost much more than the off the shelf options. They tune bilsteins, king and fox.

Great to know in regards to the shocks! I’ve been going back and forth on different brands and I will definitely check out accutune.

 

All of the suspension was installed by the PO, this Jeep is a hodge podge of mixed parts, some high quality, others not so much. I’m currently in the waiting room waiting for my truck to have the bed Line-X’d but I will check out what’s going on in the front. There’s definitely a track bar relocation bracket but I honestly can’t tell what on the front end is aftermarket, and what is factory. I know there were a large amount of parts on it swapped with a 95 Cherokee. The pitman arm looks a bit longer than it’s supposed to, but I could just be crazy. I’ll take some photos this afternoon and perhaps someone can chime in and let me know what I have going on under there and what I should keep vs. toss. My 2018 F-150 has been giving me tons of problems and just fell out of warranty so I’ll be selling it and making the Comanche my daily driver so I’d love for it to be comfortable and nice to drive! 
 

updates with photos soon!

[Pete M]

need more pics of what ya got.  

[DonM]

I bought a 92 on bed MJ a couple months ago and have been prepping it for my dd and play truck.  I put in a 3 inch Skyjacker lift with the Black Max shocks.  Also used the Rough County long arms, adjustable track bar, and detachable swing arms.  I had a shop do all the work, but I very much like the ride.  Washboard roads smooth right out.  This is actually the first suspension I have messed with so I feel I got very lucky.  My wife even likes the ride over her 2018 JKU Rubicon.

[MYE Jeep]

Okay here’s some photos of the current setup, like I said, I don’t know what is factory, what is Comanche, what is Cherokee, so any input would be greatly appreciated! 

[Pete M]

IMO the shock mounts on that rear axle have got to go.  they hang super low and are 90* off of what the MJ needs.   the lower eye should match the upper eye in orientation.

 

your leafpacks are missing the overload leaf.

[Parei_doll_ia]

Those shocks look too short for how they're mounted. I think those are XJ axle mounts which are lower than the MJ mounts that are on the spring plates, especially with SOA. Mine has 2.5-3" lift, and when I got it it had stock XJ shocks on it that were too short and it rode poorly too. I would weld new mounts on and measure for new shocks. Typically you want the ride height of the shock to sit between 1/3-2/3 of the travel since the performance of the shock valving drops off at the extremes.

[MYE Jeep]

Thanks so much for the input guys! I really appreciate it. XJ axle mounts adds up, the PO said he swapped a bunch of things from a 95 XJ if I'm not mistaken. 

Would I be better off just grabbing a different axle instead of cutting and welding up new shock mounts for the D35? I know they are notoriously weak axles, but if the truck is mostly on paved roads or dirt roads and not crawling is it that necessary to swap for a stronger one?

 

@Pete M Hmm, I wonder why it was removed... I've looked into getting new leaf packs, but I keep finding information that replacement ones typically give you more lift, and right now everything is pretty level. at the moment.. I've read that some leaf packs will give you about a 3" lift, which would actually be fine if I went back to SUA I suppose.

[MYE Jeep]

I was thinking about just getting a 3" or 4.5" kit from Zone or BDS, I have wholesale pricing on Zone through my office so I could get the whole kit for close to nothing, then probably just keep the long arm kit, no sense in taking it off IMO.

 

I've heard negative things about AAL kits, but I'm wondering if I just took the front end of the Zone kit and pieced it together with an OE replacement leaf pack and some rear shocks measured to fit wherever i end up putting the rear axle (soa or sua).

[ghetdjc320]

Interesting. Several things jumó out from the pics. First, there are only 3 leaves in that spring pack. I’m guessing somebody swapped to spring over axle but thought it sat too high and removed a leaf. Your load capacity will be reduced with just 3 leaves as will your axle wrap prevention. Such a low spring rate in back will probably be very soft around the corners and will affect steering. 
 

In front, the pitman arm is definitely a dropped unit. This can put undue stress on the steering box which already has a pretty flimsy mount from the factory. The pitman arm and track bar setup are both aftermarket but it’s hard to say if they are maintaining parallel angles from the pictures themselves. If you were to take a straight edge across the track bar mounting points and another on the drag link mounting points, the two lines should be as close to parallel as possible to prevent “bump steer.” 
 

Furthermore, although some may differ on this point, I am not much of a fan of the radius arm style long arm kit. When you have only two links going to the front axle with two shorter arms coming from the long arms, you cannot maintain proper caster angle when going over bumpy roads or “swoops” on a paved road. They are also not as safe in my opinion since you have only 2 points of contact to the truck vs the original 4. A full 4 link kit would be ideal. 
Also looks like your original lower control arm brackets were removed.

 

 

As for the Zone kit, they do have some decent quality but are meant for a stock rig. You will need to change some of your existing parts to use the zone kit and achieve the lift your looking for. 
 

in regards to steering also, I am 90% positive that is the stock MJ/XJ tie rod. It’s a thin walled hollow tube that will pretzel up on you if you look at it the wrong way on 33’s.

 

If you want to get 3-4.5” of lift I’d recommend something like this:

Switch back to spring under and get some good new brackets in place with proper shock mounts. Ballistic or Ruff stuff specialties have some great quality brackets.

You’ll have to stay long arm up front unless you replace the factory brackets. TNT, Clayton and Iron Man 4x4 (personal favorite) all make excellent genuine 4 link long arm kits. Or you could always keep what you have if your comfortable running that. Most of those companies can provide springs as well but there are so many spring options for the front. Zone and BDS are good as are metalcloak, Old man emu and others. Rubicon express is also ok. Rough country, skyjacker etc are at the bottom of the barrel. Good marketing and a few of their products are decent but in general they have a bad rep. Currie steering setup (CE-9701) Ironman 4x4 track bar and steering brace system would be best. You can do without a drop pitman at 3-4” of lift with the Currie linkage. 

 

 

[Pete M]

yup, chances are that they pulled the overload either for 1/2" less lift, or because of some misguided idea that it would provide more uptravel.  It doesn't really have to be an MJ overload, but I would recommend something there since it does a good job of keeping springwrap under control. 

[EvilMJ]

On 11/21/2021 at 11:04 AM, MYE Jeep said:

Hey all, 

 

Here's the story, I bought a 88 Comanche last year and have been slowly restoring it. Most of the body is finished up so I'm looking into suspension options. 

 

Current setup from PO:

Rusty's 6.5 Long Arm Kit

Bilstein 5100 front shocks

KYB Gas-A-Just Rear Shocks

SOA w/ stock "eye bolt" shock locations

 

Anyways, the ride is absolutely terrible. I mean, probably the worst ride of any vehicle I've ever driven. It feels like a skateboard going down the paved road, un-driveable on any dirt roads. Insanely rough ride, and just feels unstable at freeway speeds when you hit a small bump.

 

I'm not opposed to tossing out the Rusty's kit, and I'm not stuck on a 6.5" lift kit.

My fenders are already cut, M Notch fender flares installed so there plenty of clearance for larger tires even with a lower lift. 

 

I own a Jeep rental company in Arizona so I don't need to use this as my "wheeler", and honestly after all the work that has gone into restoring the body I don't have any intentions of rock crawling and ruining the new paint, this is more of a weekend camping rig that should be enjoyable to drive.

 

So between a 3" - 6" lift kit what is everyones experience for the softest ride, high quality build lift kit? I'd like to be able to drive down washboard dirt roads at higher speeds comfortably. Budget isn't an issue, I'm happy to pay the money to make it nice to drive.

 

Additionally, the PO didn't have a front driveshaft in when I bought it, he said he had a custom one made at some point but the vibrations were a big issue, I've measured out the distance and it doesn't seem like a factory driveshaft will fit back in for whatever reason. So if reducing the lift size would allow me to put a factory front driveshaft back in, that would be great!

 

Please share your experience with different suspension setups and let me know your feedback. I'm open to all options!

Just saw the post... that is a sweeeeet looking MJ!

[MYE Jeep]

19 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

Interesting. Several things jumó out from the pics. First, there are only 3 leaves in that spring pack. I’m guessing somebody swapped to spring over axle but thought it sat too high and removed a leaf. Your load capacity will be reduced with just 3 leaves as will your axle wrap prevention. Such a low spring rate in back will probably be very soft around the corners and will affect steering. 
 

In front, the pitman arm is definitely a dropped unit. This can put undue stress on the steering box which already has a pretty flimsy mount from the factory. The pitman arm and track bar setup are both aftermarket but it’s hard to say if they are maintaining parallel angles from the pictures themselves. If you were to take a straight edge across the track bar mounting points and another on the drag link mounting points, the two lines should be as close to parallel as possible to prevent “bump steer.” 
 

Furthermore, although some may differ on this point, I am not much of a fan of the radius arm style long arm kit. When you have only two links going to the front axle with two shorter arms coming from the long arms, you cannot maintain proper caster angle when going over bumpy roads or “swoops” on a paved road. They are also not as safe in my opinion since you have only 2 points of contact to the truck vs the original 4. A full 4 link kit would be ideal. 
Also looks like your original lower control arm brackets were removed.

 

 

As for the Zone kit, they do have some decent quality but are meant for a stock rig. You will need to change some of your existing parts to use the zone kit and achieve the lift your looking for. 
 

in regards to steering also, I am 90% positive that is the stock MJ/XJ tie rod. It’s a thin walled hollow tube that will pretzel up on you if you look at it the wrong way on 33’s.

 

If you want to get 3-4.5” of lift I’d recommend something like this:

Switch back to spring under and get some good new brackets in place with proper shock mounts. Ballistic or Ruff stuff specialties have some great quality brackets.

You’ll have to stay long arm up front unless you replace the factory brackets. TNT, Clayton and Iron Man 4x4 (personal favorite) all make excellent genuine 4 link long arm kits. Or you could always keep what you have if your comfortable running that. Most of those companies can provide springs as well but there are so many spring options for the front. Zone and BDS are good as are metalcloak, Old man emu and others. Rubicon express is also ok. Rough country, skyjacker etc are at the bottom of the barrel. Good marketing and a few of their products are decent but in general they have a bad rep. Currie steering setup (CE-9701) Ironman 4x4 track bar and steering brace system would be best. You can do without a drop pitman at 3-4” of lift with the Currie linkage. 

 

 

 

Wow! This was incredibly helpful and insightful!

 

Okay so on my list now:

 

Front:

Currie Steering System CE-9701

New Front Track Bar (Ironman 4x4) Do I need to remove the drop bracket currently on from the Rustys kit?

Stock Size Pitman Arm

Springs (BDS 034301)

New shocks (Fox 2.0 maybe?)

Tie Rods - Any brand preference here?

 

Rear:

Replace Leaf Pack - Brand preferences here?

Replace Shocks (matching brand to front)

New shackles I'm sure

Build or replace D35, and add shock and leaf brackets

 

Hows this sound so far?

In addition, I was hoping someone might be able to chime in on why a factory front driveshaft won't fit back in the Comanche? The measured distance is like an inch or two too long to fit based off of the specs I've found. Any idea if this is just because of the 6.5 lift? Maybe after going closer to a 3-4" lift the geometry will line up better?

 

Also in regards to the 4 link setup, since my factory brackets are gone, could I simply use the existing brackets from the Rustys kit? or will all new brackets be needed? Trying to find all the right parts on Ironman 4x4 site but I'm not sure which one comes with all the correct brackets and linkages for the 4 link setup.

 

Thanks a ton guys! I really appreciate you all helping me set up my Comanche to be driveable!

 

 

[MYE Jeep]

5 hours ago, EvilMJ said:

Just saw the post... that is a sweeeeet looking MJ!

Thanks so much!! I have a little build thread on this page if you want to check it out!

 

[MYE Jeep]

As far as rear leafs, it seems most people have been pretty happy with the General Springs, however it looks like there are 2 options on their site, either 1200lb payload or 1700lb payload, then theres talk of a military wrap design?

 

Which of these seems to be the most favorable between the designs for ride quality?

[ghetdjc320]

2 hours ago, MYE Jeep said:

 

Wow! This was incredibly helpful and insightful!

 

Okay so on my list now:

 

Front:

Currie Steering System CE-9701

New Front Track Bar (Ironman 4x4) Do I need to remove the drop bracket currently on from the Rustys kit?

Stock Size Pitman Arm

Springs (BDS 034301)

New shocks (Fox 2.0 maybe?)

Tie Rods - Any brand preference here?

 

Rear:

Replace Leaf Pack - Brand preferences here?

Replace Shocks (matching brand to front)

New shackles I'm sure

Build or replace D35, and add shock and leaf brackets

 

Hows this sound so far?

In addition, I was hoping someone might be able to chime in on why a factory front driveshaft won't fit back in the Comanche? The measured distance is like an inch or two too long to fit based off of the specs I've found. Any idea if this is just because of the 6.5 lift? Maybe after going closer to a 3-4" lift the geometry will line up better?

 

Also in regards to the 4 link setup, since my factory brackets are gone, could I simply use the existing brackets from the Rustys kit? or will all new brackets be needed? Trying to find all the right parts on Ironman 4x4 site but I'm not sure which one comes with all the correct brackets and linkages for the 4 link setup.

 

Thanks a ton guys! I really appreciate you all helping me set up my Comanche to be driveable!

 

 

 

That’s a good start. Unfortunately, there isn’t just a “kit” that will accomplish everything your looking for but here are some of the pieces if you would like to go this route. I’ll post some links that may be helpful:

 

Steering brace setup;

https://ironman4x4fab.com/collections/on-sale/products/xj-steering-box-brace
Note: you will need the sway bar drop brackets if your running an original style sway bar. You can also get the spacer if you like to reinforce the stock mounting points. 

 

Track bar setup:

https://ironman4x4fab.com/collections/comanche-mj/products/xj-track-bar-system

Note: just get the regular style bracket if you staying with 3-4.5” lift

 

 

 

28mm oem sway bar:

https://teamcherokee.com/front-sway-bar-assembly-oem-jeep-cherokee-xj-1994-2001/
Note: make sure your current setup isn’t already the 28mm bar. Also, you will need the 28mm bushings as well. Available at any auto parts store. Just search for a 94 XJ and ask for the 28mm ones. This link is for a NOS original Mopar sway bar. The price is unbeatable. 
 

 

Rear axle bracketry for spring under:

https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/DEAV-WIYP.html
Note: this is for a 3” axle tube so about 5/32” of welding to fill the gap on each side will be required. You will also need some shock tabs: https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/SBRKT-CUR.html

These are what I’ve been running on multiple Jeeps now and they are nice. 
 

Optional 4 link:

https://ironman4x4fab.com/collections/suspension/products/xj-front-4-link-system
Note: there are plenty of other options out there but few with this level of build quality for any less. This will replace all the mounting points from your existing 4 link setup. 

 

Youll need to source a regular pitman arm from an XJ or MJ. 
 

Here are some springs that will net you about 3” of lift in the rear: https://www.generalspringkc.com/1986-1992-jeep-comanche-rear-leaf-spring-5-3-2-leaf-1700-lbs-capacity/

Note that the lead time on these is out a few months right now. Other options include, hells creek: http://www.hellcreeksuspensions.com/springs/Springs.aspx

in addition to custom springs from Alcan and National (approx 600-800/pr last I checked but these are custom built for you). Finally, you could just get a hood used set and add a leaf into the pack. Some have great results with this setup. Unfortunately the aftermarket hasn’t really jumped into producing rear lift springs for an MJ. 

 

[ghetdjc320]

19 minutes ago, MYE Jeep said:

As far as rear leafs, it seems most people have been pretty happy with the General Springs, however it looks like there are 2 options on their site, either 1200lb payload or 1700lb payload, then theres talk of a military wrap design?

 

Which of these seems to be the most favorable between the designs for ride quality?

The 4 leaf pack netted me about 2.5” of lift compared to original 4 leaf 4x4 springs that were still in pretty decent shape. Keep in mind that the factory rake was about 1.75” on most MJ’s. There is a bit of room for “leveling” a little if you want to go that route. You could run a 3-3.5” front spring and the 4 leaf General Spring rears and always play around with longer shackles and or coil spacers to get the stance you like. 

[Pete M]

yeah, for some reason the replacement leafs seem to give lift too.  some is understandable because all springs settle a small amount, but 2+ is not going to all settle out.

 

If you've got the budget for them, Deaver Springs makes top end stuff.   their website doesn't list an MJ, but I know I've seen guys running them now and again. 

[ghetdjc320]

52 minutes ago, Pete M said:

 

If you've got the budget for them, Deaver Springs makes top end stuff.   their website doesn't list an MJ, but I know I've seen guys running them now and again.

 Those are super nice. I’ve seen them on JeepSpeed rigs running season after season. Any ballpark idea what the pricing is on a custom set?

[MYE Jeep]

@ghetdjc320 Man you are a wealth of information! Time to get the credit card out!

 

One question I have, as most of the JK/JKU kits I work with are direct bolt on with minor cutting and drilling.. How do you determine the pitch angle of the rear axle when re-welding leaf brackets and shock mounts? Just whatever gives the best angle for the driveshaft? or is there a more scientific and methodical approach to this?

 

Thanks a ton!

[Smokeyyank]

23 minutes ago, MYE Jeep said:

@ghetdjc320 Man you are a wealth of information! Time to get the credit card out!

 

One question I have, as most of the JK/JKU kits I work with are direct bolt on with minor cutting and drilling.. How do you determine the pitch angle of the rear axle when re-welding leaf brackets and shock mounts? Just whatever gives the best angle for the driveshaft? or is there a more scientific and methodical approach to this?

 

Thanks a ton!

 

Pinion angle IIRC should be 1-3 degrees.