E85 conversion kit

[DansGreyMj]

Do you think this would work on a Renix? I emailed the guy, he said if the injector pictured looked the same then it will.

 

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Detail?no=134

[oldjeep]

Do you think this would work on a Renix? I emailed the guy, he said if the injector pictured looked the same then it will.

 

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Detail?no=134

 

Why would you want to do that? The milege is around 25% worse with E85, which more than negates the cost savings. Not to mention how many fuel filters you are going to go through while the alchohol cleans 20 years worth of crap out of your fuel system.

[CEThomas]

My only problem with the system is they keep calling the injector plug an injector :headpop:

[oldjeep]

What I don't get is how they are accomplishing this without changing the injectors. On a 2.5L the stock injectors barely flow enough to run the engine. I assume what they are doing is increasing the pulse width on the injector, but it would be hard to consistantly provide the extra 40% or so fuel volume that you need to run E85

[90PioSport99]

What I don't get is how they are accomplishing this without changing the injectors. On a 2.5L the stock injectors barely flow enough to run the engine. I assume what they are doing is increasing the pulse width on the injector, but it would be hard to consistantly provide the extra 40% or so fuel volume that you need to run E85

Exactly and isn't increasing the pulse rate going to burn the injectors out much quicker? That's the only thing I would worry about.

[DansGreyMj]

i was interest interested to see if it would work or not, for that much money i could regear an axle

[jared]

not really worth it imo.

 

now if you were building a high compression engine, it has very high octane compared to gas, so you can make some serious power without detonation

[jtdesigns]

There's alot more you have to do to run E85. Ethanol likes to eat certain alloys and rubber so you'd have to change out or line things that aren't ss.

[whowey]

Do you think this would work on a Renix? I emailed the guy, he said if the injector pictured looked the same then it will.

 

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Detail?no=134

 

Why would you want to do that? The milege is around 25% worse with E85, which more than negates the cost savings. Not to mention how many fuel filters you are going to go through while the alchohol cleans 20 years worth of crap out of your fuel system.

 

Milage is actually about 10-15% worse....

 

Our 'new to us' Dodge Baby-mobile has average 19.5mpg, on E10. 18.6mpg on E85 for the three weeks we have had it...

Pump price today..... E10 $3.25 per gallon E85 $2.59 per gallon

 

As far a calling the plug, the injector I emailed for an answer.

 

Here is some more info regarding E85

10. Using E85 ethanol will get 50% less mileage per tank.

 

There are some stories floating around about 50% reduction in mileage or twice as much ethanol is needed. Some of the automakers who introduced Flex vehicles did a terrible job with the fuel management systems that mileage did decrease as much as 50%. After some trial and error, the automakers have significantly improved their Flex systems and mileage conservation is within reasonable losses such as 5-15%. Conversion Kits like the Full Flex have been around for over 20 years. Realistic losses range from 5-15% as well.

 

11. Vehicles need more E85 ethanol so there is less power.

 

It is true that a vehicle does require more E85 than regular gas since the amount of energy per unit of ethanol is less than that of gas. Ethanol has a lower ignition temperature so the engine overall will run cooler increasing power. It also burns slower so instead of just burning out in one violent explosion forcing the piston down, it continues to burn the entire length of the piston stroke expanding gases more evenly and smoothly. So running E85 will give any engine more power over any pump gas. Also E85 is 105 octane. Gas comes in 85, 89 and 91 octane. The 105 octane of E85 will help to eliminate knocks and pings. All of these benefits will make an engine run smoother and quieter.

[jtdesigns]

You guys know that we run e10 now don't you? Most the gas you buy is using ethanol to replace a oxidizing agent called Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether or MTBE. So your pumping it already if you didnt know.

[oldjeep]

You guys know that we run e10 now don't you? Most the gas you buy is using ethanol to replace a oxidizing agent called Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether or MTBE. So your pumping it already if you didnt know.

 

Yup, everything in MN is at least E10. Local news station did some E85 tests this week and they were getting 39% less milage in a Durango

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article ... yid=267612

 

Quote from arcticle

"In other words, with E85 in the car, our mileage was 39 percent worse.

The result actually was worse than we expected. Consumer Reports magazine conducted a similar road test and found mileage was 27 percent worse with E85."

[FxRacing282]

for what cars/trucks? you can't say that its 39% worse without saying what type of vehicle your using. and coulnt youjust get some octane booster? an engine can run around 120 octane before you have premature detanation and flames shooting throught the manifold(s)/header(s).

[whowey]

for what cars/trucks? you can't say that its 39% worse without saying what type of vehicle your using. and coulnt youjust get some octane booster? an engine can run around 120 octane before you have premature detanation and flames shooting throught the manifold(s)/header(s).

 

The article is about a Durango.

 

Higher octane than E85??? Its already 105.

[whowey]

You guys know that we run e10 now don't you? Most the gas you buy is using ethanol to replace a oxidizing agent called Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether or MTBE. So your pumping it already if you didnt know.

 

Yup, everything in MN is at least E10. Local news station did some E85 tests this week and they were getting 39% less milage in a Durango

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article ... yid=267612

 

Quote from arcticle

"In other words, with E85 in the car, our mileage was 39 percent worse.

The result actually was worse than we expected. Consumer Reports magazine conducted a similar road test and found mileage was 27 percent worse with E85."

 

As would be expected by a for-profit enterprise like the 'news' station performs a 'test' and has findings that makes a better story. They don't detail driving conditions, how many miles they drove using the non-85, driving styles, or any other conditions that would effect MPG.

[oldjeep]

You guys know that we run e10 now don't you? Most the gas you buy is using ethanol to replace a oxidizing agent called Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether or MTBE. So your pumping it already if you didnt know.

 

Yup, everything in MN is at least E10. Local news station did some E85 tests this week and they were getting 39% less milage in a Durango

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article ... yid=267612

 

Quote from arcticle

"In other words, with E85 in the car, our mileage was 39 percent worse.

The result actually was worse than we expected. Consumer Reports magazine conducted a similar road test and found mileage was 27 percent worse with E85."

 

As would be expected by a for-profit enterprise like the 'news' station performs a 'test' and has findings that makes a better story. They don't detail driving conditions, how many miles they drove using the non-85, driving styles, or any other conditions that would effect MPG.

 

LOL, and comsumer reports is out to get them too.

"Consumer Reports magazine conducted a similar road test and found mileage was 27 percent worse with E85."

 

If it works for you, great. Al I know is that in the Flex fuel Caravan that I owned we got 25-30% worse milage from E85 and it didn't make any financial sense to use it.

[jtdesigns]

You guys know that we run e10 now don't you? Most the gas you buy is using ethanol to replace a oxidizing agent called Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether or MTBE. So your pumping it already if you didnt know.

 

Yup, everything in MN is at least E10. Local news station did some E85 tests this week and they were getting 39% less milage in a Durango

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article ... yid=267612

 

Quote from arcticle

"In other words, with E85 in the car, our mileage was 39 percent worse.

The result actually was worse than we expected. Consumer Reports magazine conducted a similar road test and found mileage was 27 percent worse with E85."

 

As would be expected by a for-profit enterprise like the 'news' station performs a 'test' and has findings that makes a better story. They don't detail driving conditions, how many miles they drove using the non-85, driving styles, or any other conditions that would effect MPG.

 

 

Agreed, Maybe you do have worse millage with E85, The main focus of it esp. in the US is that we're keeping it "in the family" so to say. Not only does the production give US farmers work, it lessens our dependence on foreign supplies.

 

The price is higher because of the process used to make it today, tomorrow it will get cheaper when processes get streamlined and newer technology are developed.

 

Take Brazil for example they're one of the worlds biggest producers of Ethanol. They make it using sugarcane. They can flip a switch and produce sugar or fuel... It all depends on what the economy calls for at the moment.

 

The more ethanol is used the better the prices will become. I would love to see the US run independent from Arabic sources. I myself would like to see everything turn to diesel and see the cleaner burning biodiesels rule the roads.

[jtdesigns]

You guys know that we run e10 now don't you? Most the gas you buy is using ethanol to replace a oxidizing agent called Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether or MTBE. So your pumping it already if you didnt know.

 

Yup, everything in MN is at least E10. Local news station did some E85 tests this week and they were getting 39% less milage in a Durango

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article ... yid=267612

 

Quote from arcticle

"In other words, with E85 in the car, our mileage was 39 percent worse.

The result actually was worse than we expected. Consumer Reports magazine conducted a similar road test and found mileage was 27 percent worse with E85."

 

As would be expected by a for-profit enterprise like the 'news' station performs a 'test' and has findings that makes a better story. They don't detail driving conditions, how many miles they drove using the non-85, driving styles, or any other conditions that would effect MPG.

 

LOL, and comsumer reports is out to get them too.

"Consumer Reports magazine conducted a similar road test and found mileage was 27 percent worse with E85."

 

If it works for you, great. Al I know is that in the Flex fuel Caravan that I owned we got 25-30% worse milage from E85 and it didn't make any financial sense to use it.

 

I do believe you may receive a tax break from using E85.

[oldjeep]

for what cars/trucks? you can't say that its 39% worse without saying what type of vehicle your using. and coulnt youjust get some octane booster? an engine can run around 120 octane before you have premature detanation and flames shooting throught the manifold(s)/header(s).

 

What would higher octane have to do with fuel economy? I think you are a little confused. You get detonation from running fuel that has too low an octane. Any octane over what stops detonation doesn't do anything. Needs

[whowey]

You guys know that we run e10 now don't you? Most the gas you buy is using ethanol to replace a oxidizing agent called Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether or MTBE. So your pumping it already if you didnt know.

 

Yup, everything in MN is at least E10. Local news station did some E85 tests this week and they were getting 39% less milage in a Durango

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article ... yid=267612

 

Quote from arcticle

"In other words, with E85 in the car, our mileage was 39 percent worse.

The result actually was worse than we expected. Consumer Reports magazine conducted a similar road test and found mileage was 27 percent worse with E85."

 

As would be expected by a for-profit enterprise like the 'news' station performs a 'test' and has findings that makes a better story. They don't detail driving conditions, how many miles they drove using the non-85, driving styles, or any other conditions that would effect MPG.

 

 

Agreed, Maybe you do have worse millage with E85, The main focus of it esp. in the US is that we're keeping it "in the family" so to say. Not only does the production give US farmers work, it lessens our dependence on foreign supplies.

 

The price is higher because of the process used to make it today, tomorrow it will get cheaper when processes get streamlined and newer technology are developed.

 

Take Brazil for example they're one of the worlds biggest producers of Ethanol. They make it using sugarcane. They can flip a switch and produce sugar or fuel... It all depends on what the economy calls for at the moment.

 

The more ethanol is used the better the prices will become. I would love to see the US run independent from Arabic sources. I myself would like to see everything turn to diesel and see the cleaner burning biodiesels rule the roads.

 

Ummm..... I think your quoting the wrong guy.

Where I live Ethanol is cheaper SIGNIFICANTLY.

 

To quote myself: Pump price today..... E10 $3.25 per gallon E85 $2.59 per gallon. Illinois does offer a per gallon tax break for ethanol purchases. But the state no longer offers tax breaks for purchasing E85 compatible vehicles.

 

E85 will always be cheaper here. I live surrounded by several million acres of corn. Heck, I can go down to farm supply and get biodiesel delivered. If I could find a decent price on a used diesel p/u I'd be driving that.

 

But a privately owned for-profit TV station in an area that wouldn't be pro-ethanol(due to local economics) putting out a story against it, with multiple references to the pro-ethanol governor. The TV station wants to sell ads and make a name for itself. What makes more money??? A positive story, or one that repeatedly calls the governor's decisions into question.....

[jtdesigns]

Ummm..... I think your quoting the wrong guy.

Where I live Ethanol is cheaper SIGNIFICANTLY.

 

To quote myself: Pump price today..... E10 $3.25 per gallon E85 $2.59 per gallon. Illinois does offer a per gallon tax break for ethanol purchases. But the state no longer offers tax breaks for purchasing E85 compatible vehicles.

 

E85 will always be cheaper here. I live surrounded by several million acres of corn. Heck, I can go down to farm supply and get biodiesel delivered. If I could find a decent price on a used diesel p/u I'd be driving that.

 

But a privately owned for-profit TV station in an area that wouldn't be pro-ethanol(due to local economics) putting out a story against it, with multiple references to the pro-ethanol governor. The TV station wants to sell ads and make a name for itself. What makes more money??? A positive story, or one that repeatedly calls the governor's decisions into question.....

 

I understand. I was saying no matter what kind of exposure using this fuel source is getting; I will still advocate it. We're in the same boat. I too want french fry burning truck !!! I'm basing my school and career on it.

[oldjeep]

 

But a privately owned for-profit TV station in an area that wouldn't be pro-ethanol(due to local economics) putting out a story against it, with multiple references to the pro-ethanol governor. The TV station wants to sell ads and make a name for itself. What makes more money??? A positive story, or one that repeatedly calls the governor's decisions into question.....

 

So you're going to continue to ignore that COnsumer Reports had similiar results? OK.

[oldjeep]

So anyway - back to the original question. How in the world are they accomplishing running E-85 without chaning injectors. Just for the sake of more argument, lets say that you only need 15% more E85 - which is going to translate into a 15% longer injector pulse with stock injectors.

 

Seems like a good kit would include injectors that were up to the task, but that would keep them from offering what looks like a 1 box fits all kit.

 

Anyone actually know someone who has used one of those kits?

[jtdesigns]

So anyway - back to the original question. How in the world are they accomplishing running E-85 without chaning injectors. Just for the sake of more argument, lets say that you only need 15% more E85 - which is going to translate into a 15% longer injector pulse with stock injectors.

 

Seems like a good kit would include injectors that were up to the task, but that would keep them from offering what looks like a 1 box fits all kit.

 

Anyone actually know someone who has used one of those kits?

 

I never used this kit, but I have ran E85 in my Isuzu Rodeos 3.2L v6. The biggest problem I had was the ecu didn't know what to do about the O2 levels. I threw a code for emissions. My theory is that burning the Ethanol raised the o2 levels leaving the computer not knowing what was wrong.

[whowey]

 

But a privately owned for-profit TV station in an area that wouldn't be pro-ethanol(due to local economics) putting out a story against it, with multiple references to the pro-ethanol governor. The TV station wants to sell ads and make a name for itself. What makes more money??? A positive story, or one that repeatedly calls the governor's decisions into question.....

 

So you're going to continue to ignore that COnsumer Reports had similiar results? OK.

 

Ignore CONsumer reports..... The bastion of good independant journalism that it is.....(where is the sarcasm button?)

 

Any rag that publishes one report of 'safety tests' hammering an entire class of vehicles, then back away from it when they are sued by the manufacturers of the vehicles has ZERO credability. Or how about years of documented Japanese manufacturer bias????

 

If you remember they also hammered the Cherokee, when all of the off-road publications were picking it as the '4wd of the year'

[whowey]

So anyway - back to the original question. How in the world are they accomplishing running E-85 without chaning injectors. Just for the sake of more argument, lets say that you only need 15% more E85 - which is going to translate into a 15% longer injector pulse with stock injectors.

 

Seems like a good kit would include injectors that were up to the task, but that would keep them from offering what looks like a 1 box fits all kit.

 

Anyone actually know someone who has used one of those kits?

 

The only way I can see from their descriptions, and instructions would be to lengthen injector pulse. But, 15% is probably a much closer estimation of how much additional fuel is needed. A 15% longer pulse width wouldn't affect the life of the injectors significantly.

 

Ethanol does contain o2, its the reason that it is used for an oxygenate rather than the toxic MTBE. The reason behind emissions codes is the increased oxygen level. The vehicle sees the extra o2, tries to adjust the fuel ratio. When it can't get the o2 to what it sees as an acceptable level it will set the code.