5 1/4 Rear Speakers?

[Torq_Shep]

Has anyone done this with a clean install? Custom brackets or something? I am considering redoing the sound in the new Comanche again (current system is good its just not as good as it could be). The options for 4x6 speakers are not plentiful =P

 

[89eliminator]

i had the same dilemma recently but went with 4x6 kickers just to keep it not hacked up  

[Pete M]

from my experience, tiny speakers behind your butt don't add much of anything to the sound.   

[Torq_Shep]

5 minutes ago, 89eliminator said:

i had the same dilemma recently but went with 4x6 kickers just to keep it not hacked up  

I am torn between the kickers and the kappas if I stick 4x6. If I do the Kappas I will likely do Morel Maximo fronts, if I do the kickers I will probably do kicker fronts. 

Plan is factory radio with bluetooth adapter soldered in at aux pins, speaker outputs to soundstream 4 channel mini amp (75w out per channel), self-powered KSC-11 from Limey's original setup. 

[ghetdjc320]

I did Morel 5.25 components in all 4 locations. The rears will take the 5.25 using the TJ 5.25 adapter from metra. You will about 1/4” of spacing to get them to fit just right and will need to modify the stock brackets a bit. Pretty easy to do. Add an amp and they will come alive. The tweeters should be mounted higher. I’m not going to get too specific with where I decided to put mine because it will spark an acoustic conversation that I don’t have time to discuss at the moment. Plus I’m about 8k miles away from my rig lol. All in all though, it’s one of the cleanest installs you can do using factory locations. Coaxial speakers behind the seat aren’t in a very good position. Components can be pretty decent though and of course, they can look like a factory install. Sound control is really key to getting the best performance out of a system like that.

[89eliminator]

35 minutes ago, Torq_Shep said:

I am torn between the kickers and the kappas if I stick 4x6. If I do the Kappas I will likely do Morel Maximo fronts, if I do the kickers I will probably do kicker fronts. 

Plan is factory radio with bluetooth adapter soldered in at aux pins, speaker outputs to soundstream 4 channel mini amp (75w out per channel), self-powered KSC-11 from Limey's original setup. 

 

i did kickers front and rear with a kenwood amp and 10" sub.  pretty happy with it overall.  

[Torq_Shep]

32 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

I did Morel 5.25 components in all 4 locations. The rears will take the 5.25 using the TJ 5.25 adapter from metra. You will about 1/4” of spacing to get them to fit just right and will need to modify the stock brackets a bit. Pretty easy to do. Add an amp and they will come alive. The tweeters should be mounted higher. I’m not going to get too specific with where I decided to put mine because it will spark an acoustic conversation that I don’t have time to discuss at the moment. Plus I’m about 8k miles away from my rig lol. All in all though, it’s one of the cleanest installs you can do using factory locations. Coaxial speakers behind the seat aren’t in a very good position. Components can be pretty decent though and of course, they can look like a factory install. Sound control is really key to getting the best performance out of a system like that.

 

And you did not cut the plastics in the rear of your jeep?

[Pete M]

I would do front speakers and then tie the rear channels of the amp into a small subwoofer.  subwoofer > 4x6s 

[ghetdjc320]

2 hours ago, Torq_Shep said:

 

And you did not cut the plastics in the rear of your jeep?

Negative. No plastic cut. Just had to mod the original bracket. The existing speaker grill is decent size and works well with 5.25 woofers 

[ghetdjc320]

2 hours ago, Pete M said:

I would do front speakers and then tie the rear channels of the amp into a small subwoofer.  subwoofer > 4x6s 

I did front and rear 5.25 Morel components & a sub 

[Torq_Shep]

I am thinking I may use front components, rear 2-ways, and a self powered sub =P

With a factory head. 

[ghetdjc320]

31 minutes ago, Torq_Shep said:

I am thinking I may use front components, rear 2-ways, and a self powered sub =P

With a factory head. 

Id try to on get any high frequencies higher up on the b pillar since they will be more absorbed by back of the seat and any other obstructions. Components work better for that purpose in the b pillar. 

[WahooSteeler]

I'll add to the number of people that have said that a coax/triax speaker in the stock rear position is all but useless other than some midrange frequency, and the high frequencies will be completely muddled and actually take away from your overall sound experience IMO. Components are really the only way, IMO, to get good contributing sound in the rear of the cab using the stock mounts. More options on components for the fronts at least for tweeter locations, i.e. up high in the door or using the A-pillar etc. 

 

All that said, I have the basic set up like Pete mentioned, 5.25" coax in the doors and a dual voice coil bazooka tube behind the passenger seat with 70w at 2ohms going to it. The truck is not my daily (actually it's my son's DD for now) so I didn't worry about an expensive or super custom setup. Regardless, it puts out surprisingly good sound with plenty of thump when you want it. Just as important is the Pioneer head unit I have offers plenty of customization with high pass filters and crossover points. I know these features are pretty common now on even a mid-level deck, but it really helps dial in the sound on a system like this. 

[Pete M]

I had 6x9s in individual boxes (in lieu of 4x6s in the b-pillar) back there and eventually removed them because they added nothing to my system (door component speakers + subwoofer, all fed lots of power).  I just don't see what little speakers are going to do when 6x9s fed tons of watts turned out to be completely redundant.    ymmv

 

I'm not saying don't put 4x6s in there, I'm saying don't go crazy trying to finagle anything else back there if you have a subwoofer.  you won't hear them.

[ghetdjc320]

38 minutes ago, Pete M said:

I had 6x9s in individual boxes (in lieu of 4x6s in the b-pillar) back there and eventually removed them because they added nothing to my system (door component speakers + subwoofer, all fed lots of power).  I just don't see what little speakers are going to do when 6x9s fed tons of watts turned out to be completely redundant.    ymmv

 

I'm not saying don't put 4x6s in there, I'm saying don't go crazy trying to finagle anything else back there if you have a subwoofer.  you won't hear them.

Each different frequency responds differently to the different materials and obstructions found behind your seat. Bench case buckets also makes quite a difference. The higher the frequency, the more it gets absorbed by things like upholstery and carpet. The lower frequencies are not nearly as susceptible to this. That’s why components aren’t the way to go in the b pillar. You need to get your higher frequencies up physically higher so they aren’t muffled and drowned out. The midbass frequencies will sound just find in the stock b pillar location. 
 

As has been suggested, try components in the back with tweeters mounted higher and either components or coax speakers up front. 

[Minuit]

If you want good high frequency (and I mean good, not just "good... for a car stereo") in an MJ without cutting or fabbing you're gonna have a bad time.

 

The most factory-esque thing I can think of is to cut some "vents" in the rear B-pillar trim at roughly ear level and mount the tweeters behind that. The sail panels (where the mirror joysticks would be) is a common place used in both aftermarket and factory installs, but fabbing up non-hideous tweeter mounts to go there is beyond my skill, and probably most people's level of care.

 

And of course we're trying to do this in an inherently noisy platform with relatively little separating the outside from the inside. I have gone far beyond what most people are willing to do to make my truck quiet and I am still not completely happy. But I'm never happy with anything.

 

And of course the factory head unit just makes all of this a little more difficult by not incorporating any sort of configuration features. That would have to be done in an outboard DSP hidden somewhere else.

 

If you bother to look into it, car audio is the mother of all rabbit holes.

 

I would also throw my ditto in the pile that sticking coaxial speakers behind the seat in the factory location will probably take away more from the system than it adds. That was my experience, but everyone's ears are different.

[Torq_Shep]

17 minutes ago, Minuit said:

If you want good high frequency (and I mean good, not just "good... for a car stereo") in an MJ without cutting or fabbing you're gonna have a bad time.

 

The most factory-esque thing I can think of is to cut some "vents" in the rear B-pillar trim at roughly ear level and mount the tweeters behind that. The sail panels (where the mirror joysticks would be) is a common place used in both aftermarket and factory installs, but fabbing up non-hideous tweeter mounts to go there is beyond my skill, and probably most people's level of care.

 

And of course we're trying to do this in an inherently noisy platform with relatively little separating the outside from the inside. I have gone far beyond what most people are willing to do to make my truck quiet and I am still not completely happy. But I'm never happy with anything.

 

And of course the factory head unit just makes all of this a little more difficult by not incorporating any sort of configuration features. That would have to be done in an outboard DSP hidden somewhere else.

 

If you bother to look into it, car audio is the mother of all rabbit holes.

 

I would also throw my ditto in the pile that sticking coaxial speakers behind the seat in the factory location will probably take away more from the system than it adds. That was my experience, but everyone's ears are different.

 

Interesting. I am not willing to modify any of the metal or plastic in the truck (beyond the 4x6 speaker frames conversion to 5 1/4) so tweeters in an ideal location are not really viable. My current thoughts based on this discourse is coax fronts, component rear (5 1/4) and tweeters in the under dash kick panel. I think that is likely the best I am going to get utilizing stock locations. Again everything will be amplified and crossovers added where needed. Likely still use the KSC-Sw11 sub somewhere just not sure where yet. 

[WahooSteeler]

Torq, one final thought I'll add is that since you are committed to not cutting anything up, which I personally appreciate, if you put tweeters in the sail panels you have not REALLY altered or destroyed any factory trim pieces. If you don't like the look or sound, you can pull them and replace with another set of blank sail panels which fortunately are not that hard to come by between MJs/XJs. And, most component tweeters come with a flat base and an angled base to mount the tweeter, giving you at least a little bit of control in angling them in a desirable direction. With that in mind, the tweeter mounts in the lower dash panel are at knee level and point down, so again, IMO, the location and direction of the high frequencies is opposite of what is most ideal.......closer to the ears and directed towards the listening position. 

 

One last option that just came to mind and may not have been mentioned yet is morphing in to the back of your headliner the rear ceiling speaker panel from an XJ. You've probably seen this mod before. That idea may not fit your goal/agenda of trying to keep an "all stock" look, just thought I'd throw that in there. I'm pretty sure the XJ panel holds 6.5" speakers. Interested to see what you end up doing!  

[Pete M]

squish some tweeter pods in the corners of the dash.  no holes to cut.  

 

 

[Torq_Shep]

11 hours ago, WahooSteeler said:

Torq, one final thought I'll add is that since you are committed to not cutting anything up, which I personally appreciate, if you put tweeters in the sail panels you have not REALLY altered or destroyed any factory trim pieces. If you don't like the look or sound, you can pull them and replace with another set of blank sail panels which fortunately are not that hard to come by between MJs/XJs. And, most component tweeters come with a flat base and an angled base to mount the tweeter, giving you at least a little bit of control in angling them in a desirable direction. With that in mind, the tweeter mounts in the lower dash panel are at knee level and point down, so again, IMO, the location and direction of the high frequencies is opposite of what is most ideal.......closer to the ears and directed towards the listening position. 

 

One last option that just came to mind and may not have been mentioned yet is morphing in to the back of your headliner the rear ceiling speaker panel from an XJ. You've probably seen this mod before. That idea may not fit your goal/agenda of trying to keep an "all stock" look, just thought I'd throw that in there. I'm pretty sure the XJ panel holds 6.5" speakers. Interested to see what you end up doing!  

So if I do them in the under dash panel I am willing to modify those brackets as well. The idea would be that instead of pointing them straight out like factory (vents are angled down but tweeters are pointed straight out, I would probably try and mount them angled slightly upward to combat the terrible positioning. I agree on the sail panels, I think I have about 2 extra sets of those, but then I lose the charming little adjuster knobs for the mirrors that totally function correctly :V

In any case I will definitely be doing a build thread on this truck. I am in the process of reconstructing what I know was down by limey so that I have a good place to start. The audio is going to get done at the same time I install a rebuilt hvac box and install a re-worked harness, fuse block, with OBD2 provisions for the interior. 

[ghetdjc320]

The factory knee panel tweeter location actually isn’t bad for the fronts and provides decent imaging between the woofer and tweeter. 
 

Another possible thought with your system would be to run the components up front all in factory locations and add some Hertz or similar 5.25 mid bass drivers behind the b panels in the modded brackets. You could also fab up a bracket for a free air 6.5 woofer. With bucket seats though, components in back really do sound good with properly positioned tweeters. Provided that their is not a ton of crap behind the seats. @Minuit is right though, these trucks are loud and there isn’t much to quiet them down. I’ve also gone through significant effort (disassembling sheet metal panels and shells) to quiet down the cab and help contain the spl. It is dramatically better than stock but still not as good as a semi-used bmw. 

[Torq_Shep]

So I bought all of my components from crutchfield. Morel Maximo 5 Component fronts and Morel Maximo 5 coax rear, TJ adapter plates, 16 ga copper speaker wire, Soundstream Reserve Mini 75w x4, Duetsch knock off disconnects for the speakers, etc etc. Y'all bought all the Team Cherokee tweeters though so now I need to rig up mounts for the tweeters...

[Pete M]

40 minutes ago, Torq_Shep said:

Y'all bought all the Team Cherokee tweeters though so now I need to rig up mounts for the tweeters...

 

never delay.  never hesitate.   when I looked a the site, there was only one available so I didn't get it.  If you're super keen on using the factory lower dash tweeters instead of the sails or pods, I'm sure I've got a pair in the barn somewhere.

[Torq_Shep]

Dead jeep has used ones for $25 so I just bought those =P

[Pete M]

also good.