5x5 bolt pattern with WJ swap

[Swampy]

I am just spit balling here. 

Would it be possible to convert front axle to 5x5 with wj unit bearing will doing the wj knuckle/brake swap?

I have read different information on the interwebs saying you can run wj knuckles and wj unit bearings and be fine (as in without welding the metal spacer), I also read you need the spacer to locate the ujoint with the ball joints but with the sapcer xj stub shaft is too short to get the axle nut installed.

 

Thoughts, opinions, comments?

Planning a future axle build and the wheels I want are 5x5

[ghetdjc320]

1 minute ago, Swampy said:

I am just spit balling here. 

Would it be possible to convert front axle to 5x5 with wj unit bearing will doing the wj knuckle/brake swap?

I have read different information on the interwebs saying you can run wj knuckles and wj unit bearings and be fine (as in without welding the metal spacer), I also read you need the spacer to locate the ujoint with the ball joints but with the sapcer xj stub shaft is too short to get the axle nut installed.

 

Thoughts, opinions, comments?

Planning a future axle build and the wheels I want are 5x5

IIRC the underlying issue is centering the U joints

[Swampy]

Just now, ghetdjc320 said:

IIRC the underlying issue is centering the U joints

I guess I am just trying to figure out how to over come that

[Swampy]

Pulled this tid bit from NAXJA

 

---

"The WJ hub has a flange offset of 2.11", the 01 Cherokee hub has a flange offset of 1.9 and the JK's is 1.9 as well. Assuming it has the same mounting lugs, the JK hub is the bolt pattern you want and the right flange offset. Note, though, that the JK uses a longer stub shaft and presumably it does so for a reason. It's either spline count, length thru the hub or length back from hub to U-joint or some combination and I'm not sure.
I'd be really curious to see you use the JK hub, but I think the easier method is going to be wheel adapters.
If you do pursue JK hubs, please post up results."

[MiNi Beast]

Overcome it with wheel adapters or here's a thought choose different wheels. 

[MiNi Beast]

custom rcv shafts. 

[ghetdjc320]

3 hours ago, Swampy said:

Pulled this tid bit from NAXJA

 

---

"The WJ hub has a flange offset of 2.11", the 01 Cherokee hub has a flange offset of 1.9 and the JK's is 1.9 as well. Assuming it has the same mounting lugs, the JK hub is the bolt pattern you want and the right flange offset. Note, though, that the JK uses a longer stub shaft and presumably it does so for a reason. It's either spline count, length thru the hub or length back from hub to U-joint or some combination and I'm not sure.
I'd be really curious to see you use the JK hub, but I think the easier method is going to be wheel adapters.
If you do pursue JK hubs, please post up results."

The JK uses a 30 spline outer even in the d30. So WJ knuckles and brakes with JK unit bearings and stub shafts? Interesting concept. I believe JK knuckles are also an option and if they are then that opens up the possibility of Reid knuckles... Someone please try this combo and post up the results! 

[Swampy]

5 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

The JK uses a 30 spline outer even in the d30. So WJ knuckles and brakes with JK unit bearings and stub shafts? Interesting concept. I believe JK knuckles are also an option and if they are then that opens up the possibility of Reid knuckles... Someone please try this combo and post up the results! 

Found on pirate. There went that idea

I measured a TJ and JK knuckle. The 3 bolt wheel bearing pattern has 4.10" bolt spacing on both but that is the only similarity. The JK has bigger calipers so different bolt hole spacing (5.4" vs 5.75"), and the JK ball joints are further apart then the TJs (8 5/8" vs 8 1/4"), so they will not swap.

[ghetdjc320]

14 minutes ago, Swampy said:

Found on pirate. There went that idea

I measured a TJ and JK knuckle. The 3 bolt wheel bearing pattern has 4.10" bolt spacing on both but that is the only similarity. The JK has bigger calipers so different bolt hole spacing (5.4" vs 5.75"), and the JK ball joints are further apart then the TJs (8 5/8" vs 8 1/4"), so they will not swap.

The WJ knuckles bolt on to the JK axles which means that the JK knuckles bolt to TJ/XJ/YJ axles! I am starting to suspect that Vanco runs a RHD and LHD JK knuckle with Ford rotors and calipers. The lower ball joint should be replaced with the WJ/JK one for proper clearance but many don’t. I’ve been trying to crack the recipe for a “bolt-on” big brake kit for 90+ D30’s for a while now. 

[75sv1]

I have done this swap on an XJ. WJ hubs to use WJ rims. Yes, the 1/4 spacer is still needed. I have run this setup about a year now. 

 

[ghetdjc320]

8 minutes ago, 75sv1 said:

I have done this swap on an XJ. WJ hubs to use WJ rims. Yes, the 1/4 spacer is still needed. I have run this setup about a year now. 

 

But the question is using JK unit bearings instead of WJ ones. The stub shaft would need to be changed but otherwise it seems like a possible bolt in

[Swampy]

I know the wj swap works but all the swap write-ups I have seen involve using '99+ xj/tj unit bearings to retain the 5x4.5

[saveevryjp1998]

I saw this this morning and immediately went to work trying to source jk knuckles. They are ridiculous what they want. Cheapest I can find are 75 a piece with around 4-5 hour round trip involved. New they are $150 new a piece. I'm already hesitating simply cause of the extra cost on the knuckles. I'm guessing the bearings are more etc etc. The wj knuckles are a dime a dozen in yards as of now and easier to source but even then it's a pricey upgrade diy once it's really all added up. I see why everyone is 1 ton swapping anymore but seems like overkill for those mid range guys in that 6ish lift range with around 35s. I've been there myself. I just sold a set of wj knuckles welded ready to go last weekend. I still have 1 of these 90% done on 30 that's been sitting for years and 2 more sets of knuckles ready to go for others. Even if the jk setup worked there will still needed welding modifications to front axle for proper articulation to receive any benefits other than just big brakes. I'm curious though if the jk knuckles would clear more 15" rims. It looks like a smaller gap than the wj on the passenger knuckle between the upper and lower links. It's just a guess by eye so don't take my word. I'd also like to see the difference in calipers and rotors between wj and jk. Not sure which is better or if the jk rotor could be redrilled or if the jk hub can be separated/rebuilt/repressed for different bolt patterns. I've got a lot of questions. Unless I had a compete ok axle at my disposal, it could get very costly quickly. Yards and private sellers want a fortune for those.

[MiNi Beast]

Its all gold. 

[saveevryjp1998]

5 minutes ago, MiNi Beast said:

Its all gold. 

Yep exactly that's why I try to save what I can and never grow to fond of any of it. I also try to get by the cheapest and easiest route for I drive rust buckets. In the rust belt it will rust eventually. There is no point for me to own a garage queen. 

[MiNi Beast]

[75sv1]

7 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

But the question is using JK unit bearings instead of WJ ones. The stub shaft would need to be changed but otherwise it seems like a possible bolt in

I did search for a possible stub shaft to make the WJ bolt in. I could not find dimensions on stub shaft. It would need to be 1/4 shorter than the XJ's from center of the U-joint hole to the flange. 

[Sir Sam]

my JK knuckles don’t fit my XJ axles. 
 

if I remember I’ll take pic so show the difference. The JK Cs are larger than the XJ Cs. I’m also remembering that the JK axles won’t fit into XJ hubs, and vice versa

 

long time back I mocked up WJ knuckle and WJ hub with a JK Moab. 
 

i think it needed some spacers I used washer for, maybe that’s where a JKS spacer would come in. 

[75sv1]

The other is that the JK hubs have 32 spline. The Xj and WJ are 27. So a hub shaft change. 

[ghetdjc320]

40 minutes ago, 75sv1 said:

The other is that the JK hubs have 32 spline. The Xj and WJ are 27. So a hub shaft change. 

The D44 JK uses 32 but the D30 uses 30 spline outers. Since the WJ knuckles swap to the JK and XJ axles then the JK knuckles should swap to XJ/MJ/YJ/TJ as well. 

[Sir Sam]

On 9/17/2020 at 6:10 AM, ghetdjc320 said:

The D44 JK uses 32 but the D30 uses 30 spline outers. Since the WJ knuckles swap to the JK and XJ axles then the JK knuckles should swap to XJ/MJ/YJ/TJ as well. 

Here is an XJ knuckle on. JK D44. The C is larger and the upper ball joint isn’t fully seated. 
 

https://colorado4wheel.com/images/1988_MJ/MJ221.jpg

[Sir Sam]

Just now, Sir Sam said:

Here is an XJ knuckle on. JK D44. The C is larger and the upper ball joint isn’t fully seated. 
 

https://colorado4wheel.com/images/1988_MJ/MJ221.jpg

Not sure if swapping ball joints would get it to seat right though. 

[ghetdjc320]

1 hour ago, Sir Sam said:

Not sure if swapping ball joints would get it to seat right though. 

Swapping the ball joint is required when doing the WJ knuckle swap also

[Sir Sam]

1 hour ago, ghetdjc320 said:

Swapping the ball joint is required when doing the WJ knuckle swap also

I know. but look at the difference in size. 
 

is this something you have done and know works? Lots of people don’t swap the ball joints when doing the WJ swaps on XJs. Doesn’t mean it’s right. 
 

 

[saveevryjp1998]

8 hours ago, Sir Sam said:

Not sure if swapping ball joints would get it to seat right though. 

Can you get a measurement between the knuckle ears for upper and lower ball joint holes on the JK knuckle. The wj lower ball joint must be swapped in the xj lower place for the swap to work with wj. I've done it. Supposedly guys say they haven't and it destroys the knuckle fairly quick which I'm guessing makes perfect sense because it obvious it shouldn't fit. I'm not sure if it's as obvious from your link though. It's been several years since I did it. I actually never finished it because I was hunting down low clearance zerk fittings which could easily bypass that hiccup but I wanted it my way and that's it. The truck ended up parted but I still have it. I'm about to start on it again though and a second 1 I picked up a month ago. I do have 1 more set of wj knuckles ready however I'm rather curious about jk brakes and rotors vs wj. I've never had the chance to see or study the difference if any to see which may be better. I do know the jk route, if it's even bolt on, will not be cheaper unless you have the parts for free. Yards want way too much for the newer stuff.