Wounded_Fighter Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 53 minutes ago, HOrnbrod said: NAPA's no better than any of the other parts houses, they buy C.R.A.P. from Won Hung Lo too. Grab a regulation Mopar relay HERE . That's the first thing I noticed on the napa part box. "Made in china". I plan to if that's the problem part again when I swap it in. Both will be warranty returns. Need me some 'Murica! In my AMC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVPete Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Did you clean/check the negative ground connection at the block already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 9 hours ago, SVPete said: Did you clean/check the negative ground connection at the block already? Yes, all the Big ground contacts were checked. I replaced that relay and she's "Clicking" again, Like the starter is trying but not extending, or is bound up. pulling the starter and taking it to "thezone" at lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Took the starter to Autozone, they bench tested it there, it Failed. (no shaft extension) Cool! Maybe I can swap that and be done. Rechecked all the contact points... Replaced the Ignition relay under the hood. (again) Replaced the starter (again) Replaced the battery, (again) Turn key, "Click, Click", Loss of power.... Still. I'm at a loss for words now... Why is this happening?? Same symptoms, going to bring the starter back to Autozone (again, again) and see if the BRAND NEW, Not Re-manufactured one Fails the bench test... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 20 hours ago, Wounded_Fighter said: Gonna have to trace wires and start replacing stuff.... Maybe eliminate some of them from the relays battery post... LOL... not a clue what most of them go to. ^^^ Lose the obvious non-factory relay connections first, one at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, HOrnbrod said: ^^^ Lose the obvious non-factory relay connections first, one at a time. Well I eliminated 2 right off the bat. the yellow and blue one, They went to the electric fan, thats running a thermostat as well, but its not always on anymore, found it killed my battery few months back so i spliced a switch into it and shoved it into the dash. why there is two for the one fan... beyond me as of right now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Right now I'm looking at this.. and I do not believe the Alternator is suppose to go there??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Good download HERE, the 88 Electrical manual. Look and see what's supposed to be connected to the starter relay and what's not. The HO's are completely different in that the started relay is a solid state relay in the PDC compartment and coexists with many of the same type relays for easy troubleshooting simply by swapping. Unfortunately you have a Renix, so it's all point-to-point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 39 minutes ago, Wounded_Fighter said: Right now I'm looking at this.. and I do not believe the Alternator is suppose to go there??? Yes the alternator can go there it doesn't matter it's a direct link to the battery The green wires with your question marks on them will be your fused links the supply electricity to everything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 25 minutes ago, Jeep Driver said: Yes the alternator can go there it doesn't matter it's a direct link to the battery The green wires with your question marks on them will be your fused links the supply electricity to everything else So "Technically" speaking it should be on the Battery hot post. 52 minutes ago, HOrnbrod said: Good download HERE, the 88 Electrical manual. looks like it suppose to be just the battery on that post. Page 21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 You have two wires marked "Fan" tied there. I don't know if your setup is one or two fans and how they (it?) are wired but an aux fan can pull over 20A when starting up. And they (it) should each be fused with a 25A fuse(s) too. Have you traced out the "???" wires? I'll bet whatever they power isn't fused either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 The green wires with the question marks are fuses that's what a fused link looks like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 You can get creative. This is what I'm going to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WahooSteeler Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 9 hours ago, Wounded_Fighter said: Right now I'm looking at this.. and I do not believe the Alternator is suppose to go there??? Wounded, I had the IDENTICAL symptoms and no-start situation 2 months ago. Replaced the starter relay and thought I was done. I never updated my thread but just like you, a short time later no-start and the same symptoms. Fortunately it was sitting in the driveway. Checked all the grounds AGAIN, all good. More research. Replaced the coil, and while doing so thought for the hell of it I'd disconnect everything on the starter relay while the battery was disconnected and after I popped in the new coil and reconnected everything, BAM....starts right up. No I've definitely got it fixed, right? Nah. Only next time it died on me less than a week later while at the county dump. Tried the long charge with jumper cables, no luck. I was planning on replacing the battery cables anyway and the negative cable was showing some bare wire in places. Replaced the negative cable, no luck. Had to have it towed from the dump. Took it to the shop I use and was now thinking it's got to be the ignition switch. Side note, my key would now also not turn back to the lock position, but that was not the case when the problem first started but the key cylinder is kind of sloppy so I thought maybe it's not pushing the actuator rod firmly on the ignition switch. Anyhoo, the truck sat for over a week before they got around to it and...........it started first try and has started ever since for about a month now. Crazy..... The reason I'm copying your post and picture though is because when I replaced the starter relay I took a pic of the connections on the old relay to make sure I put them back in the same place on the new one. But looking at yours, my black ground wire and green ignition wire on the bottom two posts were/are reversed! I would think this would result in a no-start but is not the case? Needless to say, I'm following this thread closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 8 hours ago, WahooSteeler said: looking at yours, my black ground wire and green ignition wire on the bottom two posts were/are reversed! I would think this would result in a no-start but is not the case? Interesting, but looking on the diagram on the side of the part and in the electrical manual I don't think it really matter which side its on? "It looks like" the key turned to the start position runs power through I (or g) post and it goes straight through to the opposing post g (or i) and pushes that switch to throw power to the sol pin from the batt (and f pin??) down to the starter. That said. the Jeep has had those pins in those locations since I've owned it, 3? 4? months now. I took care in putting them in the "right spots" when I transferred them to the new part, used pictures for reference also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 On 8/21/2018 at 8:33 PM, omega_rugal said: Bad ground from battery to engine (chassis) On 8/21/2018 at 8:36 PM, Jeep Driver said: For once I agree with you. :) Both apparently correct! In the end it turned out to be an "Arcing Short" on the ground terminal which may have been melting the innards of the starters. Replaced the Starter twice on this day (because regardless that the ground was "not correct" the starters were not extending properly.), the first brand new one was bad out of the box. I wouldn't leave the store anymore without them bench testing them... But I didn't get it fixed until I had a second set of eyes, one of my co-workers hovering over the car while I was playing with it, when he saw it "Spark" at the ground terminal when I turned the key. Tightened the DOGPISS out of it, waited 15 seconds, and IT STARTED! How long does it last this time....... Lets see. Tonight I will be tracing the "???" Wires pictured before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WahooSteeler Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Ground terminal at the starter? When this was happening to me I checked all the grounds per Cruiser's tips, but did not check the ground at the starter, so I'll crawl under and check that for added insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 2 hours ago, WahooSteeler said: Ground terminal at the starter? At the Battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruxus Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 I have also had the the same symptoms. It turned out to be a bad ignition switch, have u checked that?Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 On 8/28/2018 at 4:52 PM, Jeep Driver said: The green wires with the question marks are fuses that's what a fused link looks like 22 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: You can get creative. This is what I'm going to use. Thats an interesting fuse. They are, Apparently they all have fusible link imprinted on them too, each one has 2 wires leading off as well. So far I was wrong with 2 fan labels, top one is Horn! Super important :) (relocated to battery terminal for now) I feel the need for a labeling system lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Okay, trying to avoid ripping the entire front end out to trace these wires... any insight would be useful. I followed them the short distance I can see into some convoluted tubing, followed the tubing through the front end to the other fender where it seems to only go into the fuse panel in the firewall. Most of the wiring is exposed at that point minus 2 red wires that go into relays on the driver fender. Into the fuse panel I don't see that many red wires....? Thoughts? The one red wire that went to the left, dead ended to a disconnected plug near the blower motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Are we sure they don't belong on the starter relay?? I just stumbled into this page on electrical manual... page 8, which looks like they actually do go there....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ωhm Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Follow the electrical manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Just now, Ωhm said: Follow the electrical manual. Am I reading it right? The fusible links are to be connected as pictured? The 3 "???" Ones. On 8/28/2018 at 2:20 PM, Wounded_Fighter said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ωhm Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 All dash lines connect to the starter relay (batt) terminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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