Newby here. Lifted by PO, but there's issues here.....

[coolwind57]

Ok fellas, learning as I new owner so bear with me.

 

My new 89 lwb 4x4/4.0 has obviously been lifted by the first owner.  Second owner just basically bought and rarely drove it for about a year and I'm the third owner, 97K original miles.  This is not a Metric ton, as I have a D35 in rear with four regular springs and what appears to be a curved-up helper spring back there.  Rear spring brackets appear stock, only because they're rusty as hell.  

 

Anyhow, I have no idea how much of a lift this thing has, but I'd guess maybe 3", but that's just a guess.  How the heck do I tell for sure?  

 

Truck is sporting 31s, but the front tires do make contact on tight turns.  Looks like they're hitting lower control arms (LCAs) because of paint-worn shiny steel.  Based upon searching and reading prior posts, these are likely stock LCAs--they are not tubular and appear to be stamped-like, Jeep factory manufactured steel.  

 

Another issue is that the thing is noisy as the front end dips and moves around.  Upon inspection, the front swaybar end link on the driver's side is making contact with the coil spring...and so is the big mounting bracket of the track bar.  There is very slight contact on both, but it is making quite the racket regardless.  Entire sway bar appears to be stock as does the non-adjustable track bar I'm looking at.  Passenger side sway bar end link clears the coil just fine, as does the wheel well frame.  Steering wheel orientation slightly off center.  

 

Ok, based upon this newby's research on this helpful site,  I'm going to take a gander at a hypothesis:  After adding a rear spring lift, Some dude bought new front coils to lift her up.  Looks like he slapped them in there, lowered the truck off his lift and then just started driving.  So I guess I'm asking you guys to correct my hypothesis as needed and perhaps add anything that I might be missing, please:

 

1.  With no manufacturer markings on front or rear springs that I can see and with 31 tires (and with no other stock Comanche in my area for height comparisons), how can I determine the amount of lift?  I'm thinking I'm really really going to need to know this.

2.  Do I for sure need to upgrade to an adjustable track bar to accommodate this lift?  How about   Rough Country - 7572 - Front Adjustable Track Bar   from Amazon for $129.95?  I'm poor, so maybe an appropriate junkyard re-purpose from a different model will work?  JKS Manufacturing OGS128 Front HD Adjustable Trackbar seems cool but one will need to double the price of the Rough Country to snag it.  Kinda hurts a guy on a tight budget.  

 

3.  Are lengthened sway bar end links in order (assuming #2 above doesn't solve all of my problems)?

 

4.  Wheel spacers or aftermarket LCAs to address tire rubbing (I am assuming that an adjustible track bar isn't going to do anything for the LCA rubbing)?  

 

5. What am I missing as far as what I would need to buy or do?

 

Look fellas, I'll be honest with you.  I wasn't necessarily looking for a lifted Comanche.  I'm not into rock crawling and mudding on weekends.  I occasionally go out into the woods to collect firewood and I live on a big ol hill that gets snow and ice in the Winters.  My 4x4 time is rare and it is for work, not play.  I'm a big, burly 48-year-old country boy that loved the idea of a great, durable Jeep workhorse multipurpose truck (driving to work & occasional weekend hauling).  I'd really be fine with a non-lift Comanche.  But it does look pretty dang sweet sitting up on these nearly brand new 31s.  But, if cost to complete this lift properly is going to kill  me, then I need to know if dropping her back down to stock height will be SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper.    

 

Would love your input and advice.

 

[Pete M]

my favorite cure for rubbing on the control arm is swapping in WJ arms.  they are better in every way to stock MJ/XJ arms and have a curve in them for tire clearance while turning.   should be a couple writeups in the link below

 

also, under "suspension" there is a writeup on how to measure ride height. 

 

https://comancheclub.com/forums/topic/48710-diy-projects-writeups-master-search-index/

 

[87Warrior]

Looks like Pete is sending you down the right path! I'll address some of your other questions.

 

2 - I believe any lift over 2" needs an adjustable trackbar. I have no experience with the Rough Country trackbar, but over the years, I have learned that you get what you pay for with Jeep suspension parts. The JKS bar is a good one, I've run one and I've installed one on a buddies Jeep. 

 

3 - Extended swaybar links will get the sway bar out of the coil spring. You will find aftermarket sway bar disconnects (aka discos) will be your best bet. You may be able to use a stock sway bar link from another vehicle since you are on a budget. I know there is an article somewhere about utilizing the sway bar links from another truck on a lifted MJ/XJ.

 

5 - You may want to verify that your brake lines are not pulled tight and have plenty of slack to compensate for suspension droop.

 

Enjoy your new MJ. Be sure to post a picture for us to drool over.

[coolwind57]

13 hours ago, 87Warrior said:

Looks like Pete is sending you down the right path! I'll address some of your other questions.

 

2 - I believe any lift over 2" needs an adjustable trackbar. I have no experience with the Rough Country trackbar, but over the years, I have learned that you get what you pay for with Jeep suspension parts. The JKS bar is a good one, I've run one and I've installed one on a buddies Jeep. 

 

3 - Extended swaybar links will get the sway bar out of the coil spring. You will find aftermarket sway bar disconnects (aka discos) will be your best bet. You may be able to use a stock sway bar link from another vehicle since you are on a budget. I know there is an article somewhere about utilizing the sway bar links from another truck on a lifted MJ/XJ.

 

5 - You may want to verify that your brake lines are not pulled tight and have plenty of slack to compensate for suspension droop.

 

Enjoy your new MJ. Be sure to post a picture for us to drool over.

Thanks Pete and 87Warrior.  

 

Hey 87Warrior, on #3:  Hey wait a second...Why would I need a sway bar disconnect for my type of use?  I thought this was for rock climbing-type guys so that they could get max flex when they face a challenge on the trail.  They hop out and temporarily disconnect the end links.  Is there another reason that this will be my best bet?

 

I'm anxious to get out and measure my lift but its raining all day today...I am now reading that a drop pitman arm may also be in store for me.  Another dang expense it seems.

 

I'll check brake lines.  Man, I wish the PO would had at least done the lift correctly instead of just buying those awesome tires and doing minimal infrastructure to support the lifted look. 

 

 

 

[Pete M]

you will never need a drop pitman.  don't worry about that.

 

you won't need disconnect links, but if you have a lift you'll want longer links. 

 

if you have more than 3" of lift, the WJ arms will be too short.  

 

also, pics would help.

 

[87Warrior]

I say discos would be your best bet because the links are longer and suited for a lifted vehicle. Many of the discos available are adjustable so you can dial in the sway bar to control how much body roll the truck has. Disconnecting the sway bar does allow for extended axle articulation to play in the rock, but when on a slow rough road disconnecting the sway bar also greatly improves the ride. 

 

Don't be afraid to buy used suspension parts for your rig. Folks like to upgrade or just change components all the time and you can pick up some great deals on parts.

[DesertRat1991]

 

Welcome aboard.  Some general thoughts...  

 

1) Follow link to DIY instructions for checking ride height provided above. 

 

2) Check ride height first.  Out of curiosity, is the rear still SUA?  Seems hard to believe that a single add-a-leaf in the rear would have given you more than 3.5" of lift.   If you're rig is under 3.5" of lift then you probably don't need an adjustable track bar up front. 

 

3) Inspect all your bushings.  Yes, extended links are generally a good idea, but maybe you have excessive play because your bushings are rotten.

 

4) Since you are budget conscious, there is a very simple and cost effective method for alleviating tire rub on the control arms.  All you need is a few 3/8" washers: INSTRUCTIONS HERE.  But, before you go adjusting the steering stops, get your front end straightened out.  Run to Home Depot and pick up two 0.98 cent yard sticks.  Grab some duct tape, a bubble level, your wife, and a tape measure and check your alignment using this method: INSTRUCTIONS HERE.  Adjust tie rods as necessary, then follow the instructions to straighten out your steering wheel.   If your tires are still contacting the LCAs after inspecting your bushings and verifying the alignment then try adding the washers to the steering stops.

 

5) Hold off on firing the parts cannon until you know how much lift you're dealing with.  And post pics.  

 

[coolwind57]

5 hours ago, DesertRat1991 said:

 

Welcome aboard.  Some general thoughts...  

 

1) Follow link to DIY instructions for checking ride height provided above. 

 

2) Check ride height first.  Out of curiosity, is the rear still SUA?  Seems hard to believe that a single add-a-leaf in the rear would have given you more than 3.5" of lift.   If you're rig is under 3.5" of lift then you probably don't need an adjustable track bar up front. 

 

3) Inspect all your bushings.  Yes, extended links are generally a good idea, but maybe you have excessive play because your bushings are rotten.

 

4) Since you are budget conscious, there is a very simple and cost effective method for alleviating tire rub on the control arms.  All you need is a few 3/8" washers: INSTRUCTIONS HERE.  But, before you go adjusting the steering stops, get your front end straightened out.  Run to Home Depot and pick up two 0.98 cent yard sticks.  Grab some duct tape, a bubble level, your wife, and a tape measure and check your alignment using this method: INSTRUCTIONS HERE.  Adjust tie rods as necessary, then follow the instructions to straighten out your steering wheel.   If your tires are still contacting the LCAs after inspecting your bushings and verifying the alignment then try adding the washers to the steering stops.

 

5) Hold off on firing the parts cannon until you know how much lift you're dealing with.  And post pics.  

 

1.  Just as soon as it stops raining.  I'll hit it tomorrow at work and let you guys know.  Rain is suppose to stop overnight.  All I know at the moment is that the bottom of the door is level with my knees.  I'm 5'11". 

2.  Rear is still SUA, yes.  There are 5 leafs total, with one at the bottom I think arching up (helper I assume).  As for track bar, well it seems to be pulling the axle to the passenger side  because driver's spring is rubbing track bar upper end housing bracket.  I suppose the track bar is now a bit too short and does not allow for true centering of the axle.  The passenger side spring has more open space around it, so no contact there. 

3.  Certainly the sway bar bushings aren't new looking.  I recall no terrible damage or disintegration, but they are aged for sure.  I'll get a set of new ones when I figure out and do all of this work ahead of me. 

4.  Wow.  Seems pretty dang simple.  This sounds like a good plan!  My first thought is that this may really effect turn radius.  If correct, will this be pretty significant?  I've been reading more about WJ lower control arms (providing I'm 3" or under--by the way, thanks Pete M.  I'll try 3/8 washer technique first. 

5.  Roger that.  And I'm off the bed and will have to search to find out how to post pics later.  I'm too dang tired tonight.

 

Thank you, DesertRat1991.  

 

 

I appreciate all of the help I'm getting from you fellas.

 

 

[coolwind57]

Ok, I've got pics, and I've performed the lift measurements and here's what I came up with:

 

Front measurement, from top of axle tube to underside of frame rail (inboard of LCA Mount) = 9"

Rear measurement, from top of axle tube to tuen underside of frame rail (inboard of bump stop) = 10-1/4"

 

So it appears that my lift is very minimal.  This would make it 1-1/4" lift for front and 1" lift for rear.  I am really a bit surprised, as the height appears much higher than most standard mid-sized trucks.   Must be the tires throwing me off. 

 

Pics are of the truck and her stance, my rear spring setup, the front coils showing contact with track bar bracket, and my sway bar link rubbing coils (driver's side only with the coil rubbing, by the way)

 

What do you guys think:  The slight front lift come from junkyard-swapped front coil springs, maybe?  Did they just add a leaf or two to bring the rear up an inch (Its a D35 rear diff....I think this is suppose to have only 3 or 4 leafs, right?).  How ever the means of lift, it appears to be enough to cause the track bar to pull my axle over to passenger side too much.  

 

Unless any of you stop me, I think I'll get:

1.  taller sway bar links to get the driver's side out of the coil springs

2.  an adjustable track bar to correct alignment of the front axle...and thus get that track bar bracket out of my coil springs

3.  I may go ahead with some LCA from a WJ.  My wife hates the steering.  Turns way easy with that 80s overkill power steering compared to modern cars, no doubt.  I live with it just fine but I do notice that it does take a little more effort to keep her doing straight down the road.  Perhaps WJ LCAs with new bushing may help for a less intense feel.  I dig the 3/8" washer trick steering stop technique, but I may try this after the upgraded LCAs, if needed. 

4.  Perhaps I'll have an alignment shop look things over after all of the above is done.

 

As always,  I appreciate your input, fellas.  

Ticked to death to be here!

[HOrnbrod]

Try these. They work great providing clearance for the sway bar .

https://comancheclub.com/forums/topic/38552-sway-bar-relocation-brackets/?hl=synergy

 

Also 1985-1997Ford 350 rear sway bar end links (MOOG K80035) will work well on your MJ front sway bar.

[DesertRat1991]

 

1 hour ago, coolwind57 said:

What do you guys think:  The slight front lift come from junkyard-swapped front coil springs, maybe?  Did they just add a leaf or two to bring the rear up an inch (Its a D35 rear diff....I think this is suppose to have only 3 or 4 leafs, right?).  How ever the means of lift, it appears to be enough to cause the track bar to pull my axle over to passenger side too much.  

 

Unless any of you stop me, I think I'll get:

1.  taller sway bar links to get the driver's side out of the coil springs

2.  an adjustable track bar to correct alignment of the front axle...and thus get that track bar bracket out of my coil springs

3.  I may go ahead with some LCA from a WJ.  My wife hates the steering.  Turns way easy with that 80s overkill power steering compared to modern cars, no doubt.  I live with it just fine but I do notice that it does take a little more effort to keep her doing straight down the road.  Perhaps WJ LCAs with new bushing may help for a less intense feel.  I dig the 3/8" washer trick steering stop technique, but I may try this after the upgraded LCAs, if needed. 

4.  Perhaps I'll have an alignment shop look things over after all of the above is done.

 

Something doesn't add up.  Lifting the truck with the stock track bar should pull the axle to the DRIVER's side.  Extending the track bar would push it to the passenger side.  Check your track bar axle bracket.  Make sure the previous owner didn't drill an alternate mounting hole in the wrong spot.

 

Either way, an adjustable track bar will help you get it dialed in however you like.

 

[coolwind57]

7 minutes ago, DesertRat1991 said:

 

 

Something doesn't add up.  Lifting the truck with the stock track bar should pull the axle to the DRIVER's side.  Extending the track bar would push it to the passenger side.  Check your track bar axle bracket.  Make sure the previous owner didn't drill an alternate mounting hole in the wrong spot.

 

Either way, an adjustable track bar will help you get it dialed in however you like.

 

Yep, got me thinking, indeed.  Still trying to wrap my head around what exactly happens to the springs once the truck is taken down off jacks and under the weight of the vehicle after this incomplete lift is performed.  

 

Agreed.  Makes sense that dialing in with an adjustable track bar would likely fix it regardless of the dynamics going on there.  I'm with you.  

[Pete M]

looks like an AAL shoved in between the overload and the rest of the pack.  there are junkyard coils out there that give a small lift (ZJ?  TJ?  can't remember).  

have someone saw the steering wheel (as opposed to turning it) back and forth hard as you watch for slop (in the track bar ends and everything else in the steering system).  I wouldn't pull the gun on buying a new one until you've found the issue.  

[coolwind57]

3 hours ago, Pete M said:

looks like an AAL shoved in between the overload and the rest of the pack

 

Should this be concerning?

 

[87Warrior]

45 minutes ago, coolwind57 said:

 

Should this be concerning?

 

Not really. It is a short add-a-leaf so the ride has probably suffered from its addition. In time the short leaf could break or cause undo stress on the other leaves. With that said, I wouldn't be concerned about it or actively shopping for new parts since the front suspension needs more attention. For your use, I bet the General Spring Metric ton leaf packs would suit your needs just right being a daily driver and weekend firewood hauler whenever the budget allows.

 

That is a good looking truck with a great stance. You did good!

[gogmorgo]

Does anyone else think that truck looks familiar? Maybe it's just me. 

 

I also dealt with an issue of my sway bar smacking the coil spring. Just on the other passenger side. Completely stock setup, just, well, worn I guess. Changing out the end links for a new-looking junkyard set from an XJ and the bar (and bushings) from a ZJ (also junkyard) after the end links broke made it better, but didn't solve it. Eventually I was underneath doing something else, and noticed that the bottom coil on that side had rusted through and/or otherwise broken off at the little strap that retained it. The spring lodged itself somewhere solid and wasn't going anywhere, but it did mean that the spring being a touch out of place was the most significant cause of the contact with the sway bar. 

[Eagle]

On 9/14/2017 at 2:39 PM, coolwind57 said:

Ok, I've got pics, and I've performed the lift measurements and here's what I came up with:

 

Front measurement, from top of axle tube to underside of frame rail (inboard of LCA Mount) = 9"

Rear measurement, from top of axle tube to tuen underside of frame rail (inboard of bump stop) = 10-1/4"

 

So it appears that my lift is very minimal.  This would make it 1-1/4" lift for front and 1" lift for rear.  I am really a bit surprised, as the height appears much higher than most standard mid-sized trucks.   Must be the tires throwing me off. 

 

 

I think you measured incorrectly. If the tires in those photos are really 31s, that's a lot more than a 1-inch lift. In the front, at stock height 31s really fill the wheel opening, right up to the flares.

 

Not as definitive as the method in the FSM, but since you still have factory flares and factory wheels, for verification you could do the approximate method of measuring. Measure from the center of the wheel center cap straight up to the bottom edge of the flare. For the front, stock height is 17-1/2". For the rear, we know that XJs (Cherokees) are 17". I don't think we have a definite, confirmed number yet for the MJ, but it's probably around 20" to 21"/

[coolwind57]

My axle measurements earlier were made exactly as I had described in an earlier measurement: 

On 9/14/2017 at 2:39 PM, coolwind57 said:

Front measurement, from top of axle tube to underside of frame rail (inboard of LCA Mount) = 9"

Rear measurement, from top of axle tube to tuen underside of frame rail (inboard of bump stop) = 10-1/4"

 

Yes appears to be factory wheels and flares.  So here's what I got with your method: 

16 hours ago, Eagle said:

Measure from the center of the wheel center cap straight up to the bottom edge of the flare. For the front, stock height is 17-1/2". For the rear, we know that XJs (Cherokees) are 17". I don't think we have a definite, confirmed number yet for the MJ, but it's probably around 20" to 21"/

I got:

Front --20"

Rear -- 21"

My tires are 31 X10.5 R15

 

Well now.  I'm confused at this point. 

[Eagle]

You have 2-1/2" of lift in the front. As I mentioned, I'm less certain what the number should be for the rear. If stock is 21" then you have no lift in the rear, but if it's 20" then you have a 1-inch lift. And that's consistent with your first measurements.

 

Measuring from the wheel center (axle centerline) to the flares means tire size doesn't matter.

 

The attached photos are my '88 MJ at stock height. The tires are 215/75-15s and I don't have flares in these photos, but the wheels are the same as yours. You can visually extend body lines to get a sense of where they run relative to the top of the wheel rim (not tire). Based on my attempt at that, I'd say the numbers showing about a 2-1/2" lift in front and a 1" lift in the rear aren't too far off.

 

 

[gogmorgo]

It's not uncommon for more lift in the front to eliminate the fairly steep factory rake, even in a lot of more modern trucks. Just make sure your headlights have been adjusted down to compensate or else you'll be blinding everyone else on the road at night. 

[coolwind57]

19 hours ago, Eagle said:

Based on my attempt at that, I'd say the numbers showing about a 2-1/2" lift in front and a 1" lift in the rear aren't too far off.

 

How do you suppose the PO lifted that front end?  There are no coil spacers.  Coil spring swap from a different vehicle?  What is a common coil spring swap that gives 2-1/2"?

 

What kinda gets me is that the coils are painted the same silver color as the original body.  Maybe its a just a coincidence.   

[jeeppapa]

Well the MJ hook is in you deep now. This truck is going to be your baby. Wait till you get a chance to use it in the snow. Soon after I got it we had a snow storm. The snow was up to the doors and even deeper in the drifts that covered the roads. That old truck just plowed Rite through it. I was so impressed I thought rite then " I'm never getting rid of this truck". Once its in your blood it's hard thing to shake. There is no cure and you will love it. Welcome to the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eagle]

3 hours ago, coolwind57 said:

How do you suppose the PO lifted that front end?  There are no coil spacers.  Coil spring swap from a different vehicle?  What is a common coil spring swap that gives 2-1/2"?

 

What kinda gets me is that the coils are painted the same silver color as the original body.  Maybe its a just a coincidence.   

 

Factory Jeep coils were all black.

 

NAPA and Carquest "cargo coils" could provide 2-1/2" of lift. Numerous companies used to to sell 3" lift coils for the Cherokee -- it's not difficult to imagine that aftermarket coils might have settled a half inch.

[coolwind57]

10 hours ago, jeeppapa said:

Well the MJ hook is in you deep now. This truck is going to be your baby. Wait till you get a chance to use it in the snow. Soon after I got it we had a snow storm. The snow was up to the doors and even deeper in the drifts that covered the roads. That old truck just plowed Rite through it. I was so impressed I thought rite then " I'm never getting rid of this truck". Once its in your blood it's hard thing to shake. There is no cure and you will love it. Welcome to the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the diagnosis and confirming my addiction.    Here in Southern Indiana, we got jipped on snow last year so I'm hoping for at least a moderate Winter this year.  Wife is new to the country so she's seen only a cold days when she arrived late last season.  There is a wonderful feeling of satisfaction in plowing through weather that strands others along side the road.  Even better if you go out rescuing and pulling people out.  

 

Last night, I ordered a new pair of LCAs from a WJ for $45 bucks.  I think I'll start there and then next will be an adjustable track bar and sway bar end links.  Then I'll have an alignment shop look her over if I am still not happy.

 

I sure appreciate the help, fellas.