Dzimm Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 So I'm finally to the point of trying to start my MJ. I'm doing the full 97+ swap so keep that in mind here. Everything is hooked up and seems to be working fine, however when I turn the key to start it I get the relay in the cab clicking, the relay under the hood stays silent, and the starter does nothing. If I jump the starter directly, it turns the engine over no problem so I know the starter is good. I am getting fuel so that's good, I'm not getting spark. I know what my next steps are as far as working out the no spark issue but I wanted to rule out the NSS as a possible culprit. When I shift the Trans into reverse I get no reverse lights, telling me it's likely bad or needs adjusted. I made an attempt to adjust the NSS but through the whole range of motion the reverse lights never come on. My question is when the NSS fails could it keep the reverse lights from coming on regardless and is there another way to test the NSS other than the reverse lights? The truck won't start so I can't do any sort of driving tests and the only thing I could come up with is using the reverse lights but that isn't working. I'm trying not to have to fork over $$$ for a new NSS when that may not actually be the problem. If the NSS isn't at fault, what could be other causes of the starter relays clicking in the cab but not under the hood? I've swapped in multiple relays and cleaned all contacts I could both + and -. I will be picking up a voltmeter tomorrow to do some testing but any input would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuit Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Have you taken the NSS off the transmission and cleaned it? It doesn't usually fail outright, it just gets gunked up inside. I'd try that first. http://gojeep.willyshotrod.com/HowtoNSSrebuild.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Have you taken the NSS off the transmission and cleaned it? It doesn't usually fail outright, it just gets gunked up inside. I'd try that first. http://gojeep.willyshotrod.com/HowtoNSSrebuild.htm I haven't taken it completely off yet. I've heard that people usually end up breaking them in the process so I'm hesitant to do it. I'm confident in myself but I'm just trying to weigh my options. I'm guessing you are saying it's most likely the NSS though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ωhm Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Key on, clicking relay is a symptom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 OK well tomorrow I will be pulling the NSS and cleaning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuit Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Have you taken the NSS off the transmission and cleaned it? It doesn't usually fail outright, it just gets gunked up inside. I'd try that first. http://gojeep.willyshotrod.com/HowtoNSSrebuild.htm I haven't taken it completely off yet. I've heard that people usually end up breaking them in the process so I'm hesitant to do it. I'm confident in myself but I'm just trying to weigh my options. I'm guessing you are saying it's most likely the NSS though? A dirty NSS would both stop the starter relay from getting power and cause the reverse lights to not work, so it's what I would point to first. It's a very common problem and it's one of those "needs to be done at least once in the life of the vehicle" things. I've never broken one, but I live in the southeast. I'd just try to be as gentle as possible, but I'm sure you know that anyway. Just curious: Does it turn over in neutral? If it starts in neutral but not park that's a definite NSS problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Bad or dirty NSS will not keep the engine from starting. Jump the starter with the ign on and start the engine before you take off the NSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 It won't turn over with the key at all no matter what gear. I have to jump the starter to get it to turn over. Since there is no spark it doesn't actually start, just turns over. The only thing I could really think of causing it would be the NSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 It won't turn over with the key at all no matter what gear. I have to jump the starter to get it to turn over. Since there is no spark it doesn't actually start, just turns over. The only thing I could really think of causing it would be the NSS. Then you have another problem, it ain't the NSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuit Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Bad or dirty NSS will not keep the engine from starting. Jump the starter with the ign on and start the engine before you take off the NSS. It won't keep it from running. Keeping the engine from starting except in park or neutral is what it's there for. My truck would intermittently not want to start in park. Turn the key to start, and nothing happened... cleaning the NSS has fixed it for 4 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Bad or dirty NSS will not keep the engine from starting. Jump the starter with the ign on and start the engine before you take off the NSS. It won't keep it from running. Keeping the engine from starting except in park or neutral is what it's there for. My truck would intermittently not want to start in park. Turn the key to start, and nothing happened... cleaning the NSS has fixed it for 4 years now. It disrupts the starter circuit, NOT the ignition. I made arrangement for my wife to get new tires last month.........that's why I have a current pic.......... I stole this XJ four years ago for $1,000. Bad NSS. I had it towed from the seller so that he would not be pissed. Got it home, jumped the starter............been the best (spotless inside) used vehicle I've ever owned for $1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuit Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 The OP has two problems, almost certainly separate. No spark, and it won't turn over. I agree that the NSS won't cause his no spark problem, but it will cause a no crank condition, and that's what I was suggesting he clean the NSS for - so he can at least turn the engine over without jumping the starter every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 The OP has two problems, almost certainly separate. No spark, and it won't turn over. I agree that the NSS won't cause a no spark condition, but it will cause a no crank condition, and that's what I was suggesting he clean the NSS for - so he can at least turn the engine over without jumping the starter every time. And I'm suggesting he may not even have an NSS problem. What OP do you mean by a full 97 swap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 The OP has two problems, almost certainly separate. No spark, and it won't turn over. I agree that the NSS won't cause a no spark condition, but it will cause a no crank condition, and that's what I was suggesting he clean the NSS for - so he can at least turn the engine over without jumping the starter every time. And I'm suggesting he may not even have an NSS problem. What OP do you mean by a full 97 swap? I'm a little confused how you say for sure the NSS isn't the problem. And if it isn't, what else could it be? NSS can cause a no crank condition and yes there is a chance it isn't the problem, however it is the most likely cause of the no crank. And a 97 swap is taking an MJ and a 97-01 XJ and putting everything from the drivetrain, interior, wiring, the front body panels, and in my case the axles from the XJ in the MJ. Basically the only thing original to the MJ is the main body itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Disconnect the NSS connector and jumper pins B and C (the two BLK wires) on the engine harness side and see if the engine cranks over in PARK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 The OP has two problems, almost certainly separate. No spark, and it won't turn over. I agree that the NSS won't cause a no spark condition, but it will cause a no crank condition, and that's what I was suggesting he clean the NSS for - so he can at least turn the engine over without jumping the starter every time.And I'm suggesting he may not even have an NSS problem. What OP do you mean by a full 97 swap? I'm a little confused how you say for sure the NSS isn't the problem. And if it isn't, what else could it be? NSS can cause a no crank condition and yes there is a chance it isn't the problem, however it is the most likely cause of the no crank. And a 97 swap is taking an MJ and a 97-01 XJ and putting everything from the drivetrain, interior, wiring, the front body panels, and in my case the axles from the XJ in the MJ. Basically the only thing original to the MJ is the main body itself. Set the NSS issue aside. If you have everything connected correctly, it should start and run, regardless of the NSS. The fact that it does not, the NSS is not the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 Disconnect the NSS connector and jumper pins B and C (the two BLK wires) on the engine harness side and see if the engine cranks over in PARK. This I will definitely try. Does the NSS still need to be plugged in or can I have it unplugged when I do this? Just making sure it doesn't need some sort of signal through another wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 The OP has two problems, almost certainly separate. No spark, and it won't turn over. I agree that the NSS won't cause a no spark condition, but it will cause a no crank condition, and that's what I was suggesting he clean the NSS for - so he can at least turn the engine over without jumping the starter every time.And I'm suggesting he may not even have an NSS problem. What OP do you mean by a full 97 swap? I'm a little confused how you say for sure the NSS isn't the problem. And if it isn't, what else could it be? NSS can cause a no crank condition and yes there is a chance it isn't the problem, however it is the most likely cause of the no crank. And a 97 swap is taking an MJ and a 97-01 XJ and putting everything from the drivetrain, interior, wiring, the front body panels, and in my case the axles from the XJ in the MJ. Basically the only thing original to the MJ is the main body itself. Set the NSS issue aside. If you have everything connected correctly, it should start and run, regardless of the NSS. The fact that it does not, the NSS is not the culprit. This doesn't make sense. Youre basically saying that as long as it's connected it works? So by that I should assume that a battery being connected, having 12v or 1v, it should still work? Parts can go bad and cause problems. I don't understand what you are trying to say other than ignore the NSS. The NSS can in fact cause a no crank if it's bad and is the most likely cause in this case. That's not to say that other things aren't causing problems but it's best to start troubleshooting with the most likely culprit first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Unplug it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 Unplug it. Ok thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 The OP has two problems, almost certainly separate. No spark, and it won't turn over. I agree that the NSS won't cause a no spark condition, but it will cause a no crank condition, and that's what I was suggesting he clean the NSS for - so he can at least turn the engine over without jumping the starter every time.And I'm suggesting he may not even have an NSS problem. What OP do you mean by a full 97 swap? I'm a little confused how you say for sure the NSS isn't the problem. And if it isn't, what else could it be? NSS can cause a no crank condition and yes there is a chance it isn't the problem, however it is the most likely cause of the no crank. And a 97 swap is taking an MJ and a 97-01 XJ and putting everything from the drivetrain, interior, wiring, the front body panels, and in my case the axles from the XJ in the MJ. Basically the only thing original to the MJ is the main body itself.Set the NSS issue aside. If you have everything connected correctly, it should start and run, regardless of the NSS. The fact that it does not, the NSS is not the culprit. This doesn't make sense. Youre basically saying that as long as it's connected it works? So by that I should assume that a battery being connected, having 12v or 1v, it should still work? Parts can go bad and cause problems. I don't understand what you are trying to say other than ignore the NSS. The NSS can in fact cause a no crank if it's bad and is the most likely cause in this case. That's not to say that other things aren't causing problems but it's best to start troubleshooting with the most likely culprit first. Do as Hornbrod suggests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinkrun Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 I had a similar problem spent weeks on it after a engine swap. Broken ground wire in the engine bay harness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 I had a similar problem spent weeks on it after a engine swap. Broken ground wire in the engine bay harness. Ground wire for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinkrun Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 I had a friend fix it retired air force mechanic I spent two weeks on it he had it running in one day. He said it was in the main harness in the engine bay near the rear of the head. I could get a pic of the area saturday if it would help as its wrapped with black tape so I can find it. I would turn the key and couple relays would click thats how it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 I had a similar problem spent weeks on it after a engine swap. Broken ground wire in the engine bay harness. That doesn't sound fun at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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