J10 front axle, help.

[ftpiercecracker1]

At some point I will turn this into a build thread, but it'll have to wait until I get a real computer.

 

 

78 j10, sbc, turbo 400, Dana 300.

 

Current front axle is a P-drop, closed knuckle, D44. New (lift) leaf springs are directly in the way of draglink. Tried making an extra long pitman arm, it worked but was ghetto as hell.

 

Finding a solid front axle of any kind around here, other than a D30, has been exceptionally difficult. Let alone a P-drop.

 

Basically the only way I see to solve this is to convert to high steer, but I don't know what trucks came with flat top knuckles. Either that or replace the P-side drop t-case with a D-side. But again the problem with that, is I don't know what D-side drop transfer cases will bolt to the Turbo 400.

 

I think a D30 from a WJ would be perfect. Big brakes, bigger universals, full width, same lug pattern as currrent, plentiful, and may come with LSD. LP is the only draw back.

 

We also kicked around the idea of going hydraulic, but this truck will be used on the road occasionally. Cost and the thought of a line blowing leaving us with absolutely no way to steer scared us off.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

FPC

[Incommando]

Closed knuckle? Who swapped that in?

Look for 87-back GM axles if you want the whole thing. They are pass drop. If you are not on www.ifsja.org you should check them out

[Minuit]

Is this the truck in your avatar? I don't actually have anything to add to the discussion, just wondering  :doh:

[Pete M]

check car-part.com for junkyard searches if you haven't already.  :thumbsup:

[NorthWoods]

Buy a dana 300 and a adapter from novak conversions for the th400. I ran that setup in my fsj on 40's. If you want pics of the setup pm me you email address and I'll give you all the info you need.

[DirtyComanche]

I don't know what to make of you having a closed knuckle axle in that year truck, it's swapped in or something.  Are you intending to keep your wheel lug pattern, and what pattern is it?  The axle should be full width (67"+ wide), which means the GM squarebody trucks have what you're looking for as an easy swap, and there was eleventybillion of them made, however you're either going to have to buy a D60 ($$$) or a 12bolt/D44 and aftermarket knuckles ($$$).  Also, all the D50s and D60s are 8x6.5" pattern, unless you get too new, then they're the metric 8x170, which isn't going to work well if you're trying to keep your wheels either way.

 

You should be able to put high steer arms on top of the kingpins in the closed knuckle D44...  The axle is an orphan, so I don't know if anyone is actually making arms to do that, but they can be made providing that axle is set up how I think it is.

 

I actually have a J-truck D44 front that would also be what you want, but we're not exactly geographically aligned for that to be an option.

 

If you're having little trouble digging up driver's drop axles that are good (Ford D44, D50 solid, or D60), you could consider putting a Ford NP205 in using the GM TH-400 input gear, you might need to swap your TH-400 output to the GM style also, but I know it is very possible if you can get parts.  IMHO, and only IMHO, the D300 is only good for selling to somebody that actually thinks they don't suck.

[ftpiercecracker1]

Closed knuckle? Who swapped that in?

Look for 87-back GM axles if you want the whole thing. They are pass drop. If you are not on www.ifsja.org you should check them out

Truck came that way when we bought it. Thanks for the info. I've checked out the full size forum, just haven't signed up yet.

 

 

 

Is this the truck in your avatar? I don't actually have anything to add to the discussion, just wondering  :doh:

Yes

 

 

check car-part.com for junkyard searches if you haven't already.  :thumbsup:

I'll check it out, but having an axle shipped would probably cost a fortune.

 

 

 

Buy a dana 300 and a adapter from novak conversions for the th400. I ran that setup in my fsj on 40's. If you want pics of the setup pm me you email address and I'll give you all the info you need.

Already have a D300 attached to the 400. I need either a flat top knuckle style front axle or a passenger drop t-case that will bolt to the turbo 400.

 

 

I don't know what to make of you having a closed knuckle axle in that year truck, it's swapped in or something. 

 

<Most likely a mod by the PO>

 

Are you intending to keep your wheel lug pattern, and what pattern is it? 

 

 

<Yes, 5x5, I think.>

 

 

The axle should be full width (67"+ wide), which means the GM squarebody trucks have what you're looking for as an easy swap, and there was eleventybillion of them made,

 

<maybe so, but the junk yards around me seemed devoid of anything older than 1990>

 

however you're either going to have to buy a D60 ($$$) or a 12bolt/D44 and aftermarket knuckles ($$$).  Also, all the D50s and D60s are 8x6.5" pattern, unless you get too new, then they're the metric 8x170, which isn't going to work well if you're trying to keep your wheels either way.

 

You should be able to put high steer arms on top of the kingpins in the closed knuckle D44. . .

 

 

<This did cross my mind, but it didn't seem safe. I have access to a machine shop and a pro tig welder. How sure are you that that would be a safe place to mount it?>

 

...  The axle is an orphan. . .

 

<What do you mean by orphan?>

 

 

so I don't know if anyone is actually making arms to do that, but they can be made providing that axle is set up how I think it is.

 

I actually have a J-truck D44 front that would also be what you want, but we're not exactly geographically aligned for that to be an option.

 

If you're having little trouble digging up driver's drop axles that are good (Ford D44, D50 solid, or D60), you could consider putting a Ford NP205 in using the GM TH-400 input gear, you might need to swap your TH-400 output to the GM style also, but I know it is very possible if you can get parts.  IMHO, and only IMHO, the D300 is only good for selling to somebody that actually thinks they don't suck.

 

 

<Why don't you like the D300? I've read quite a bit about it and it seems to be quite a desirable case. >

 

 

 

 

FPC

[NorthWoods]

Dana 300's are really only desireable if you twin stick one. Cable operated shifting is much beter then the odd linkage adapters you would need to use. There are all types of gear reduction options available. Being able to independently control the front and rear axles is the best way can properly put power to your wheels. Having rwd high, rwd low, fwd high, 4wd high and 4wd low. They are light weight, fairly compact, and impressively strong (especially if you replace the input shafts). No idea how to post pictures on here but if someone gives me their email I will post pictures of my entire setup. Amc 360, th400, dana 300, ford hp dana 60 front, corporate 14 bolt rear, 5.38 gears, front detroit with a rear ox locker. Why wouldnt you want to run a flat top knuckle with a reverse steer/high steer? Manually locking hubs are the only option I would go with. In my opinion i wouldnt go with any transfer case that isnt gear to gear.

[DirtyComanche]

I do not consider the D300 to be strong.  Stock for stock, it's on par with a wide chain NP231.  Upgrade the outputs and it's maybe a bit better than a NP241, with the advantage of being able to be twin sticked.  You can just throw money at a D300 all day long, and in the end you would be better off just buying an Atlas, or just rebuilding a $100 NP205.  Hell, I have less in my EcoBox/NP205 setup than most guys have in a built D300...  Plus guys like to flip them, because you can, then they do nothing but leak oil, and that irritates me.  But that's me, this is IMHO.

 

There is factory closed knuckle D44s that run a steering arm off the kingpin, it should not be unsafe by any reasonable measure.  People get all weirded out about steering components, without realizing that factory steering components are often beyond garbage.  Look at how aftermarket kingpin D60 arms are made, basically if it's like that it will be as strong as the knuckle is (if not stronger).

 

The axle is an orphan in that it wasn't popular to begin with, was less popular with the aftermarket, and nothing comparable or compatible with it has been built in 50+ years.  There is some info out there on on them if you dig for it, such as you can swap disk brakes on it if it has drums (for years people didn't think you could), and you can fit better axle shafts and hubs on them.  However, it's not like pretty much any of the normal mainstream axles where you can just buy whatever you need or want and be done with it.

[ftpiercecracker1]

Dana 300's are really only desireable if you twin stick one. Cable operated shifting is much beter then the odd linkage adapters you would need to use. There are all types of gear reduction options available. Being able to independently control the front and rear axles is the best way can properly put power to your wheels. Having rwd high, rwd low, fwd high, 4wd high and 4wd low. They are light weight, fairly compact, and impressively strong (especially if you replace the input shafts). No idea how to post pictures on here but if someone gives me their email I will post pictures of my entire setup. Amc 360, th400, dana 300, ford hp dana 60 front, corporate 14 bolt rear, 5.38 gears, front detroit with a rear ox locker. Why wouldnt you want to run a flat top knuckle with a reverse steer/high steer? Manually locking hubs are the only option I would go with. In my opinion i wouldnt go with any transfer case that isnt gear to gear.

 

If you have locking hubs a twin stick would be redundant/unnecessary would it not?

 

Does reverse steer use the cresent moon shaped arm? I don't think we can use that because of the steering box location. Its at an angle not flat.

 

My brother is a big fan of locking hubs, but I don't see the appeal.

 

Extra hassle having to get out of truck

Complex, more so than just a straight shaft like a Dana 30.

Something else to break.

 

 

 

 

I do not consider the D300 to be strong.  Stock for stock, it's on par with a wide chain NP231.  Upgrade the outputs and it's maybe a bit better than a NP241, with the advantage of being able to be twin sticked.  You can just throw money at a D300 all day long, and in the end you would be better off just buying an Atlas, or just rebuilding a $100 NP205.  Hell, I have less in my EcoBox/NP205 setup than most guys have in a built D300...  Plus guys like to flip them, because you can, then they do nothing but leak oil, and that irritates me.  But that's me, this is IMHO.

 

 

<The problem with leaks is exactly why I didn't even consider flipping>

 

 

There is factory closed knuckle D44s that run a steering arm off the kingpin, it should not be unsafe by any reasonable measure. 

 

 

<appreciate the reassurance. A quick Google search revealed tons of ready-made D60 Kingpin steering arms, but I found nothing made for a D44>

 

 

People get all weirded out about steering components, without realizing that factory steering components are often beyond garbage.  Look at how aftermarket kingpin D60 arms are made, basically if it's like that it will be as strong as the knuckle is (if not stronger).

 

The axle is an orphan in that it wasn't popular to begin with, was less popular with the aftermarket, and nothing comparable or compatible with it has been built in 50+ years.  There is some info out there on on them if you dig for it, such as you can swap disk brakes on it if it has drums (for years people didn't think you could), and you can fit better axle shafts and hubs on them.  However, it's not like pretty much any of the normal mainstream axles where you can just buy whatever you need or want and be done with it.

 

<I wonder why the PO decided to use it then?>

 

 

 

 

 

I did some more digging and found the makes/years that used P-side drop axles.

 

I'm gonna hit the JYs hard and see what turns up.

 

 

Thanks dudes

FPC

[Incommando]

'74-'79 are the best FSJ pass. drop fronts.

[ftpiercecracker1]

Well, it's just as I feared. I've physically walked 4 different yards and called 2 others and only came up with a single Chevy 10 bolt. Still plenty of D30s though.

 

These were the yards north of me. There are another 5-6 about 45min south, so the well hasn't run dry yet.

 

 

BTW, I am probably going to sell my current axle, but I don't know what I should ask for it. I figured $150 obo?

 

Tight pinion.

Manual hubs work good.

Draglink and tie rod included

Drum brakes, complete hub to hub

4:27 ratio (47 11 printed on the ring gear)

 

 

 

I was also thinking about the whole kingpin steering arm. Unfortunately the kingpin caps on my axle, which are small as it is, have pretty severe relief cuts on their sides, which dramatically reduces the surface area contact any secondary top mounted arm would be able to make. I feel that this would reduce the clamping forces and thusly it's strength. Is this sound logic?

 

I was thinking of having custom caps made that don't have those reliefs, bit why would I spend good money on such an undesirable axle?

 

Thoughts

FPC

[NorthWoods]

A twin stick would not be unnecessary if you run manual hubs. Manual hubs if maintained properly are just one way of eliminating either a vacuum system or an electronic control. I believe in as much direct drive/ gear to gear equipment as possible in my rigs. The twin stick itself is what will allow the independent control of each axle. 1 stick will control the front axle and the other stick will control the rear axle. Stick #1 has rwd high, rwd neutral and rwd low. Stick #2 has fwd high, fwd neutral and fwd low. This allows for rwd low range as an option and fwd high range as an option. The only option that isn't available with the twin stick is fwd low range. This is to make sure that you never end up with 1 axle in high range and the other in low.

 

You do not have to flip a d300 in order to use it with a th400 trans and a passenger drop differential. I have always run this setup with a ford high pinion dana 60 in the front. My reverse steer setup was from the company wfo concepts. I would only use a front axle that has kingpins and stay away from running ball joints. A ford dana 60 from a f350 that was made at any point in the 80's would work for you. Building a dana 44 for underneath a full size rig is a poor decision in my opinion. You are also limited to parts availability alot more with a dana 44 then a dana 60.

[NorthWoods]

Send me your email and i will send you pictures of the entire setup. Th400, dana 300, dana 60 passenger drop with reverse steer. Someone is welcome to post the pictures here for me if they would like to do that. I just don't know how to post pictures or I would have done it by now.

[DirtyComanche]

I would only use a front axle that has kingpins and stay away from running ball joints.

 

The ball joint axles have proven themselves...  Basically if you air it out the uppers will get sloppy in short order, and if you're really hard on it they will actually start to pull out of the knuckle.  There's a couple guys who have been boring out the knuckle and the taper bushing to run a lower ball joint in the upper for those reasons, but for 98% of users it isn't needed.  I debated sending my knuckles out for it, but I can't justify it.

 

And unlike the Ford kingpin knuckles, the ball joint ones rarely break in half.  Kingpin Ford knuckles are notoriously weak, and on used axles (not wheeled) it is common to find them cracking if you look closely.  Throw big tires at them and go wheeling and they break in short order.

 

To do everything over again (and stay with 1-tons) I would just buy a F-Superduty D60, preferably the F-450 and bigger version, and be done.  35 spline inners, outers, and hubs, large unit bearings that actually last, low profile hub design due to the unit bearings, bigger/better ring gear, massive u-joints in the axleshafts, etc.

 

 

 

ftpiercecracker1, have you tried phoning heavy truck wreckers?  Places that do semis and equipment...  The ones around here seem to get 1-ton trucks fairly often.