installing ~2" lift shocks and springs, advice on other parts needed?

[teamsmith]

First I want to thank all of you for providing the threads with part numbers for various shocks with accompanying lift heights. 

 

Now that my truck is running, I am planning to put new spings / shocks on it. Starting with the front, I've landed on: 

Springs: Moog CC784 (V8 ZJ Upcountry) which will reportedly net me about 2-2.5" lift over stock. If I find a nice used Warn or ARB bumper I will put that on and will likely net about 1.5" lift. 

Shocks: Bilstein 5100 series 24-188197

Spring Insulators: Onix Oe replacement

 

While I'm under there replacing those items, are there any other things I will need to replace? Other mounting bushings? When looking at the shock top mount through the engine bay, I see that the rubber grommet that the shock bolts to is all cracked. Will a new one of those come with my shock?

 

 With regards to installation process, I figure I can jack the truck up as high as I can and take the wheel off which will allow me to flex the control arms enough out of the way to pull the old springs out and put the new ones in. Does that sound right? 

 

For the rear, I'm thinking the 3" HC pack and the Bilstein 33-185606 (5125 series). Does that sound right or do I need a longer shock to accommodate the 3" pack? I don't mind a little rake in the truck but do you think the rear might be too high? If it is, I assume I can go back up front and put in spacers, but, know that going in, would that then effect my front shock choice? 

 

will I need extended brake lines for the front and/or rear with my parts decisions? I figure I'll need an adjustable trackbar to realign the front; will any other linkage parts be effected at that height? 

 

Thank you all in advance 

[Jeep Driver]

I HIGHLY recommend the OME springs. Along with the ACOS will net you 3". The ACOS will allow you to regain your 3" if and when you install a bumper and wench. Also if you want to gain another inch or more later......matter of minutes to adjust verses HOURS!

 

I've tried.......you'll need to disconnect the control arms to drop the axle to replace the springs.

 

You'll also need an adjustable track bar, I like my JKS.

[Jeep Driver]

I will also add-

 

I have replace the springs on the MJ with OME, and the springs on the XJ with Moogs. The MJ now about 5-6 months ago and the XJ about 3 months ago. Both with Bilsteins. The ride is not comparable, not even close, the XJ is soft and slushy......GARBAGE! but I thought is was saving a few bucks....huge mistake.

 

 

And yes, the 5100/5125s for the money will provide an EXCELLENT ride.

[teamsmith]

Jeep Driver. Thanks for the comments. I saw your other post with the negative review of the Moog Springs. Unfortunately, I've already got the Moogs sitting in my garage. However, I ordered the different spring than you. I believe you got the CC782 (XJ Upcountry / ZJ V8 stock) and I got the CC784 (ZJ V8 Upcountry) so there is hope that the stiff V8 Upcountry springs will not be as slushy as you say. I may still live to regret it. 

 

The ACOS looks great, but I don't have $250 to spend on a spring adjuster. This 'hobby' truck has already gotten way out of control. I got the truck for free but have somehow managed to spend $5500 to get it road worthy. Most of that was spent $40-$80 at a time. 

[Jeep Driver]

I understand.

 

I know that some guys will use spring compressors to swap springs.........

 

I have a desire to keep my front teeth and jaw bone intact.

 

That said, I would use them in the future to relieve enough pressure to adjust the ACOS.........but not to swap. It's worth the work in my opinion to disconnect the axle entirely to swap springs.

[1987Comanche]

Pick up a pair of loaner tool spring compressors from Advance, Auto Zone, etc.  Net cost will be $0 after you return them and it will make installation/removal a lot easier.  Worked great when I swapped the 2WD front axle for the 4WD one

[teamsmith]

Thanks.I will plan to disconnect the axle to get the springs in there. Can I do it one side at a time? I envision jacking the whole front end up and setting the frame rails on jack stands, then using my jack to further increase the height of one side at a time and disconnect that control arm, install springs/shocks, then reconnect control arms. I guess while I have it apart I should replace the control arm bushing. Which  arms will I be disconnecting, just the lca to the frame, or the UCA as well?

 

Now this has me thinking to replace the LCA's with WJ models since I'll have them out. This jeep continues to be an expensive rabbit hole. Is there any year WJ that is better for the LCA? It seems like I can also use a trackbar or tie rod from the WJ. There are a couple WJ's being parted out in town so I should nab what I can. 

[HOrnbrod]

X2 on the OME springs and shocks. Unless you have tried them you will never know what they are like. I'll never use the Bilstein junk again.

 

When installing the front coils, do one side at a time to prevent the axle rotating. I let the wheels hang as far as possible from the frame w/o disconnecting the control arms and got them in fine with a spring compressor. Disconnecting the sway bar helps. If you are going to use the WJ LCAs, now would be a good time for it. Again, one side at a time. The WJ LCAs (from any year) will provide much better handling because of their rigidity and larger bushings, and are a good upgrade over stock. And you will need an adjustable track bar; I got around 3/4" axle ahift when I did mine.

 

Do the track install bar last. I used a Teraflex bar because it adjusts with the turnbuckle; no need to pull one end of it to adjust the axle back to center. When centering the axle, measure from the inside frame to the outside tire edge with levels and straightedges, not from the fender flairs to the tire edge.

[teamsmith]

Does anyone have an opinion on the Rancho 7000 mono tubes? I only ask because they have a rebate going where you basically buy 3 get one free. 

[teamsmith]

X2 on the OME springs and shocks. Unless you have tried them you will never know what they are like. I'll never use the Bilstein junk again.

 

When installing the front coils, do one side at a time to prevent the axle rotating. I let the wheels hang as far as possible from the frame w/o disconnecting the control arms and got them in fine with a spring compressor. Disconnecting the sway bar helps. If you are going to use the WJ LCAs, now would be a good time for it. Again, one side at a time. The WJ LCAs (from any year) will provide much better handling because of their rigidity and larger bushings, and are a good upgrade over stock. And you will need an adjustable track bar; I got around 3/4" axle ahift when I did mine.

 

Do the track install bar last. I used a Teraflex bar because it adjusts with the turnbuckle; no need to pull one end of it to adjust the axle back to center. When centering the axle, measure from the inside frame to the outside tire edge with levels and straightedges, not from the fender flairs to the tire edge.

Don, thanks for the advice. OME's @ ~$105ea are not in the cards vs. Bilsteins @ ~$67ea. I saw a post of yours from about 3 years ago where you put on Bilsteins and, at the time, said you liked them better than your OME. What happened since then that has changed your mind? 

[HOrnbrod]

OME discontinued the rear Nitrocharger shock I needed at the time, so I went with a set of Bilstein 5125s. I did like the harsher firmer ride at first, but it got old fast. And they seemed to get worse and to ride more like a buckboard the longer I had them on. It could be because I have 3+2 MT springs on the back, I don't know. I then found a substitute OME shock that would work for my application, and went back to OMEs. Where I will stay.   :yes:

[87Warrior]

I have Don's old Bilsteins on my 86. I can't say I noticed much difference in ride over the parts store Monroes that where on it, besides the extended travel. The ride seems comfortable to me with the backend responding smoothly to bumps and dips. I am fixing to spend the next weekend on rough Colorado Forrest Service roads so my opinion might change.

 

If you have never had the control arms out of your truck, go buy new bolts and a tube of anti seize. More than likely the stock bolt is seized to the bushing and will need cut out. Don't waste your time trying to free the bolt from the bushing.

 

Don't forget to remove your calipers from the knuckle and tie them to the frame prior to trying to pop the spring out.

 

I've never used a spring compressor to install a Jeep coil spring, lifted or not. I do not see why it would be necessary.

[teamsmith]

Thanks for all the advice. I have heard over and over the quality of OME are unparalleled but I do have a nice comfortable ride for my daily driver and this will ultimately be a toy or Home Depot hauler. I reached out to Devin at 4WD and he's pushing me to the Procomp shocks because of their Buy 3 get 1 rebate promotion. He also has the R/E RE1600 trackbar for cheaper than anywhere I've seen and a lot less than the terraflex. However, it says it's for 2.5" to 5.5" lift. With me being on the bottom end of that range (or possibly below), would that be a problem?

 

Thanks again

[teamsmith]

OME discontinued the rear Nitrocharger shock I needed at the time, so I went with a set of Bilstein 5125s. I did like the harsher firmer ride at first, but it got old fast. And they seemed to get worse and to ride more like a buckboard the longer I had them on. I then found a substitute OME shock that would work for my application, and went back to OMEs. Where I will stay.   :yes:

Don,

I see that you went with the 5125 shock for the rear. Would that have been stiffer than going with 5100, or is a 5100 not available in the length and mounting specs you needed? 

 

Thanks

[HOrnbrod]

 

OME discontinued the rear Nitrocharger shock I needed at the time, so I went with a set of Bilstein 5125s. I did like the harsher firmer ride at first, but it got old fast. And they seemed to get worse and to ride more like a buckboard the longer I had them on. I then found a substitute OME shock that would work for my application, and went back to OMEs. Where I will stay.   :yes:

Don,

I see that you went with the 5125 shock for the rear. Would that have been stiffer than going with 5100, or is a 5100 not available in the length and mounting specs you needed? 

 

Thanks

 

 

I'm not sure about the valving difference between the 5100s and 5125s. It's possible the 5125s are stiffer. I called the Bilstein rep and those are the shocks he recommended according to the specs I wanted.

[Megadan]

FWIW, I have Upcountry springs and coil spacers on the front of mine.  I am using KYB Gas-A-just with BPE's.  I have no ride complaints, and it didn't cost me an arm and a leg to do.  Truck rides great from my perspective, and I daily drive it.

[87Warrior]

The only issue I see with running the RE1600 with little lift is the heim joint/bolt/misalignment spacer clearance to the differential cover. The whole assembly sits pretty far below the trackbar bracket. I ran the RE1600 under my TJ for a few years. Notice, you have to drill the trackbar bracket to 5/8". I had to replace the heim joint every year as it became loose. That same bar now sits under my '86 MJ, but with a TRE at the frame end vs the heim joint. No drilling the trackbar bracket, has the same flexibility and stays closer to the trackbar bracket for us low lift guys. You can find the part number in my build.

[Crash]

Even if you run the RE1600, consider using the RE track bar mount, or other double shear bracket.

[glundblad]

x 3 on the OME coils and shocks.

[ggcnash]

If you go with 3" HC springs you will have one hell of a rake with 2" springs up front. I'm running 3.5" RE coils with 1/2" spacers in front and still have about a 1/2" rake.

[teamsmith]

If you go with 3" HC springs you will have one hell of a rake with 2" springs up front. I'm running 3.5" RE coils with 1/2" spacers in front and still have about a 1/2" rake.

 

Ok. I'm gonna rethink the plan. I already have the coils. Best course would probably be to install the coils, take measurements, then go from there. 

[ggcnash]

With the coils you have your probably better off going with GS MT springs they are supposed to be stock (they are not period) I believe that's what jeep driver has on his they will net you around 2" in rear after they settle. I personally like the HC springs better but if you go with they're 3" you will net 4" until they settle to about 3.5" and if you go with they're MT springs you will be stock after they settle. Now saying all that I think our trucks from factory had a 1" to 1.5" rake from factory so you decide what looks good to you. I personally like about a 1/2" max good luck

[teamsmith]

I have Don's old Bilsteins on my 86. I can't say I noticed much difference in ride over the parts store Monroes that where on it, besides the extended travel. The ride seems comfortable to me with the backend responding smoothly to bumps and dips. I am fixing to spend the next weekend on rough Colorado Forrest Service roads so my opinion might change.

 

If you have never had the control arms out of your truck, go buy new bolts and a tube of anti seize. More than likely the stock bolt is seized to the bushing and will need cut out. Don't waste your time trying to free the bolt from the bushing.

 

Don't forget to remove your calipers from the knuckle and tie them to the frame prior to trying to pop the spring out.

 

I've never used a spring compressor to install a Jeep coil spring, lifted or not. I do not see why it would be necessary.

87warrior, 

what springs are you running up front? I'm now looking at the slightly shorter shock 24-185622

 

Don's old front is a 24-188197 with 14.98-24.61 heights and is recommended for 3-4" of lift. 

The 24-185622 front is 13.58-22.09 and is recommended for 2-3" of lift

 

Thoughts? I know the smart thing to do would be to install my springs and measure but I'd really like to do it all at once. It also sound likes going with a GS MT leaf pack will be the way to go to get about 2" of rear lift. 

[87Warrior]

I am running a set of TJ 3.5" RE coils with 100k hard miles on them up front. These came out of my TJ when I upgraded to Nth coils. The rear is made up of a stock set of 4wd MJ leaf + the main leaf of a MJ 2wd leaf pack and Chevy drop shackles. Overhaul height is somewhere between 2-3" of lift.

 

I should note I am only running Don's old rear Bilstein shocks. Up front I am using YJ Monroe shocks.

[HOrnbrod]

Thoughts? I know the smart thing to do would be to install my springs and measure but I'd really like to do it all at once. It also sound likes going with a GS MT leaf pack will be the way to go to get about 2" of rear lift.

Yes, that is normally how it's done, and probably the least time consuming way to do it. It's also the most logical sequence to me. It's a lot easier to adjust the front than the rear. I started with a pair of National Spring MT leafs and it jacked me up a full 3" in the back. Then threw on a pair of OME 3" lift coils up front with two spring pads, and I was where I wanted to be. Got the adj. track bar on, the WJ LCAs, the correct shocks, setup the alignment of the wheels and axle to specs, and added a wedge on the rear axle perch to correct pinion angle. After about a year driving around and hauling stuff, the rear end settled down almost an inch, so I threw on a pair of Teraflex greasable shackles to bring the rear end back up. End result was an inch of rake measured at the flares with a total lift of ~2.50 - ~2.75".