Rewiring Your Marker Lights As Turn Signals

[HOrnbrod]

Here's a nice mod for the Renix MJs, and a good safety feature too. The 91-92 MJs already have this factory installed. The link for the below is here:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxsPQiWMYfNmMk11b0djV3E1eHc/edit?pli=1

 

And here is the original link (much better resolution):  http://www.icebear.no/jeep/Turn%20Signal%20Rewiring.htm
 
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[skidoo_j]

This seems like such an odd idea for the wiring.   What it appears this does is when your running lights are off and your turn signals trigger the marker bulb will ground through the filaments of the running light bulbs and actually back feed your running lights, so they may slightly illuminate too (puts them in series, so the bulb might not be as bright).      And when your running lights are on the marker bulb grounds through the filament of the turn signal bulb again appearing in series so the turn signal filament would receive some power.        I'm surprised this wouldn't cause the turn signal dash lights to illuminate with just markers on.   And or the filament for the turn signal bulb burning out faster because of the back feed.      

 

My interpretation is based on the wiring diagram not knowing if the headlight switch put contacts to ground when off vs just open.   If switch goes to ground when off  (highly unlikely) then no back feeding would occur.

 

 

Correct me if i'm reading the diagram wrong.   

[GirsMJ86]

I love the part about "if your Jeep catches fire, something wasn't right. Buy a new one and start over."

 

Anyways, ignoring the diagram because I'm horrible at reading them and it's a super easy mod that I've done before on a Police Interceptor, there isn't any back feed that I've noticed. I've never done this on something as old as these rigs, but there wan't any on the P71. If I have time I'll do this to one of my rigs today and confirm. I'll even grab some clearer pics along the way.

 

Basically you're just tying the ground from the side marker into the front turn signal. If you wanted them to flash at the same time rather than alternate, you'd tie the side marker positive into the turn signal.

 

Here is some more info on this, scroll down to find this method explained. http://danielsternlighting.com/tech/markerflash/markerflash.html

[88whitemanche]

Can't wait for pics...I literally have to fight into traffic because of those side marker lights

[skidoo_j]

Basically you're just tying the ground from the side marker into the front turn signal. If you wanted them to flash at the same time rather than alternate, you'd tie the side marker positive into the turn signal.

 

Here is some more info on this, scroll down to find this method explained. http://danielsternlighting.com/tech/markerflash/markerflash.html

 

You're confirming what I stated.  You're pulling the ground from the marker and connecting it to an intermittent hot wire(with turn enabled)   So when markers are on it's feeding power through the turn indicator filament to get to ground, I'm guessing the marker will be dimmer after this rewire because they end up in series.      

 

 

There's only one difference between this setup and the non-flashing one: Instead of the side markers being wired across parking lamp feed and ground, they're wired across parking lamp feed and turn signal feed.

 

The side marker bulb socket is isolated from ground, and one bulb lead goes to the running lamp positive circuit. The other lead is tied into the turn signal positive lead.

 

When the parking lights are on and the turn signal off, it grounds throught the turn signal filament and illuminates the marker lamp. When the turn signal flashes, it interrupts the ground and the marker will flash. When the running lights are off, the process is reversed, with the ground being through the filaments of the running light circuit, and the marker will flash in sync with the turn signal instead of alternately.

If you have installed LED lights this may not work at all because LED's only let current flow one direction so it will depend on the circuitry in the LED bulb conversion.

[HOrnbrod]

If you have installed LED lights this may not work at all because LED's only let current flow one direction so it will depend on the circuitry in the LED bulb conversion.

 

LED lights will work fine with this application as long as you observe correct polarity when installing the LEDs. If installed incorrectly, the LEDs simply do not energize; rotate them 180* and they all work fine.

[skidoo_j]

 

If you have installed LED lights this may not work at all because LED's only let current flow one direction so it will depend on the circuitry in the LED bulb conversion.

 

LED lights will work fine with this application as long as you observe correct polarity when installing the LEDs. If installed incorrectly, the LEDs simply do not energize; rotate them 180* and they all work fine.

 

 

Hornbred you are correct in stating they would work in one direction.   So if the led was inserted one way it would work as a flasher only and if inserted the other way it would work as a marker only.  The positive and negative alternate with the way the wiring is being suggested.  

 

So if LED bulbs were wired in one direction they could function as running lights so when running lights are on they would loose their ground when the turn signal is active,  but they would not flash when the running lights are off and blinker is on because current would not flow through the led in reverse.  

[HOrnbrod]

I have LEDs for both the markers and turn signals. Of course, you have to observe LED polarity for both for them to work because it's a simple LED lamp w/o a zener or bridge circuit to negate polarity. When when applying a left turn signal, the left marker extinguishes, the left LED turn signal flashes, goes off; and the alternating marker/turn signal flashing continues until the left turn signal is removed. Sam-o for the right side.

 

HOWEVER, I have a 91, so the alternating flashing function is factory wired in. I ASSume this mod mimics the factory wiring, but will have to verify with my FSM.

[skidoo_j]

I have LEDs for both the markers and turn signals. Of course, you have to observe LED polarity for both for them to work because it's a simple LED lamp w/o a zener or bridge circuit to negate polarity. When when applying a left turn signal, the left marker extinguishes, the left LED turn signal flashes, goes off; and the alternating marker/turn signal flashing continues until the left turn signal is removed. Sam-o for the right side.

 

HOWEVER, I have a 91, so the alternating flashing function is factory wired in. I ASSume this mod mimics the factory wiring, but will have to verify with my FSM.

 

Does the marker flash when your running lights are not on? 

[HOrnbrod]

 

I have LEDs for both the markers and turn signals. Of course, you have to observe LED polarity for both for them to work because it's a simple LED lamp w/o a zener or bridge circuit to negate polarity. When when applying a left turn signal, the left marker extinguishes, the left LED turn signal flashes, goes off; and the alternating marker/turn signal flashing continues until the left turn signal is removed. Sam-o for the right side.

 

HOWEVER, I have a 91, so the alternating flashing function is factory wired in. I ASSume this mod mimics the factory wiring, but will have to verify with my FSM.

 

Does the marker flash when your running lights are not on?

 

No. The running lights have to be on for the marker lights to flash alternately with the turn signals. You got me curious so I just went and checked.   .

[skidoo_j]

 

 

I have LEDs for both the markers and turn signals. Of course, you have to observe LED polarity for both for them to work because it's a simple LED lamp w/o a zener or bridge circuit to negate polarity. When when applying a left turn signal, the left marker extinguishes, the left LED turn signal flashes, goes off; and the alternating marker/turn signal flashing continues until the left turn signal is removed. Sam-o for the right side.

 

HOWEVER, I have a 91, so the alternating flashing function is factory wired in. I ASSume this mod mimics the factory wiring, but will have to verify with my FSM.

 

Does the marker flash when your running lights are not on?

 

No. The running lights have to be on for the marker lights to flash alternately with the turn signals. You got me curious so I just went and checked.   .

 

 

I'd bet if you swapped filament bulbs into the marker light they would.  If you have one laying around would you be wiling to humor me and check?  

[HOrnbrod]

Will do later on today and post up.

 

EDIT @ 1300:  Incandescents placed in marker sockets. The marker lights now do flash w/o the running lights on, but they flash in-sync with the turn signals, not alternating.

[AMCJeepMJ]

Thanks for posting this up. I saw this exact set of instructions years ago and then lost the bookmark to it. Looks like I have a(nother) project for this weekend.

[GirsMJ86]

Will do later on today and post up.

 

EDIT @ 1300:  Incandescents placed in marker sockets. The marker lights now do flash w/o the running lights on, but they flash in-sync with the turn signals, not alternating.

 

Yup, that's how they work if your running/head lights are not on. So it does sound like this just mimics the factory wiring.

[skidoo_j]

Will do later on today and post up.

 

EDIT @ 1300:  Incandescents placed in marker sockets. The marker lights now do flash w/o the running lights on, but they flash in-sync with the turn signals, not alternating.

Thank you, so this confirms that it is back feeding the circuit.  I was not going to do it because of that, but i guess if it was done from the factory and they back fed it too I guess I can't argue it not being correct.    

[HOrnbrod]

I also have both EURO side markers and city lights installed, both paralleled off the front marker lights. Both incandescent, so it doesn't affect the circuit backfeed. 

 

http://comancheclub.com/topic/7189-euro-side-repeater-lights/?hl=euro+side

 

http://comancheclub.com/topic/16853-mj-city-lights/?hl=city

 

[skidoo_j]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/City-Park-parking-lights-turn-signals-for-H4-headlights-/330423090912?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ceec03ee0&vxp=mtrApparently the city lights are in the "rare" category. at $216 dollars now. The seller is the only person I've found with them. I've been watching his postings for over a month now, and he's actually sold a set at this price.
 

[HOrnbrod]

:eek:   Wow! The price sure has gone up.  :eek:

 

http://comancheclub.com/topic/16853-mj-city-lights/?hl=city%20lights

[mvusse]

Some insight and answers to questions that have cropped up in this thread:
 
The turn signal signal does not go from hot to nothing to hot to nothing. It alternates between hot and ground. Same with the side marker lights. When they are off, they are not disconnected. When they are off, the wire leading to them is an active ground.
 
So with the old wiring, one side of the side marker light is always grounded, and the other wire is either grounded or hot depending on whether or not your lights are on.
 
With the new/modified wiring, the one side is either ground or hot depending on whether your lights are on, the other side is either grounded (no turn signal) or alternates between ground and hot (turn signal on). So with the lights off it will blink in sync with the turn signal at full brightness, with the lights on it will blink out of sync at full brightness. Nothing is backfeeding and nothing is running in series.
 
Since a diode whether light emitting or not only allows current to pass one way there are two ways to make it work correctly with LEDs. One is to run the LED through a bridge rectifier, the other is to run two LEDs in parallel with opposite polarity.The bridge rectifier will dim the LED slightly because both signals run through a diode. A diode will have a voltage drop across it of either about 0.6V or 0.7V (silicon) or 0.3V (germanium) so assuming hot is 12V and silicon diodes, the LEDs will only see 12 - 2x0.7 = 10.6V.
 
Hope I didn't confuse anyone too badly.
 
(Can you tell I'm a cabinet maker by trade? :) )

[HOrnbrod]

Nice rundown mvusse. And no, not confused.   :thumbsup:  I have a 91 so the alternate turn signal / marker light wiring was already there. When I wired in the city lights I wanted them to come on when I turned the parking lights on, and go off when you turned the headlamps on. I was concerned with back-feeding during the alternating cycles, so for the city light hot wire I tapped into the parking light hot wire feed. For the low side I tapped into the the headlight low beam hot wire which supplied the ground when the headlamps were off. But when the headlamps were on, it provided a false ground (double positive) to the city lights low side, thus turning off the city lights. Works great. I used LEDs for everything except for the city lights and headlamps of course. No diodes necessary for the 91s and up.

 

Can't speak for the Renix........

[cruiser54]

I have LEDs for both the markers and turn signals. Of course, you have to observe LED polarity for both for them to work because it's a simple LED lamp w/o a zener or bridge circuit to negate polarity. When when applying a left turn signal, the left marker extinguishes, the left LED turn signal flashes, goes off; and the alternating marker/turn signal flashing continues until the left turn signal is removed. Sam-o for the right side.

 

HOWEVER, I have a 91, so the alternating flashing function is factory wired in. I ASSume this mod mimics the factory wiring, but will have to verify with my FSM.

My 90 has the lights wired like the later models. IIRC, 89 did also.

[HOrnbrod]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/City-Park-parking-lights-turn-signals-for-H4-headlights-/330423090912?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ceec03ee0&vxp=mtrApparently the city lights are in the "rare" category. at $216 dollars now. The seller is the only person I've found with them. I've been watching his postings for over a month now, and he's actually sold a set at this price.

 

 

I'll sell a set for half that price. Shipping is free too.   :thumbsup:

[skidoo_j]

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/City-Park-parking-lights-turn-signals-for-H4-headlights-/330423090912?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ceec03ee0&vxp=mtrApparently the city lights are in the "rare" category. at $216 dollars now. The seller is the only person I've found with them. I've been watching his postings for over a month now, and he's actually sold a set at this price.

 

I'll sell a set for half that price. Shipping is free too.   :thumbsup:

 

He's got them back at 16 for the moment.   ;

 

Do you run yours when your headlights are on? 

[HOrnbrod]

 From a previous post:

 

Nice rundown mvusse. And no, not confused. :thumbsup: I have a 91 so the alternate turn signal / marker light wiring was already there. When I wired in the city lights I wanted them to come on when I turned the parking lights on, and go off when you turned the headlamps on. I was concerned with back-feeding during the alternating cycles, so for the city light hot wire I tapped into the parking light hot wire feed. For the low side I tapped into the the headlight low beam hot wire which supplied the ground when the headlamps were off. But when the headlamps were on, it provided a false ground (double positive) to the city lights low side, thus turning off the city lights. Works great. I used LEDs for everything except for the city lights and headlamps of course. No diodes necessary for the 91s and up.

Can't speak for the Renix........

[skidoo_j]

 

 From a previous post:

 

Nice rundown mvusse. And no, not confused. :thumbsup: I have a 91 so the alternate turn signal / marker light wiring was already there. When I wired in the city lights I wanted them to come on when I turned the parking lights on, and go off when you turned the headlamps on. I was concerned with back-feeding during the alternating cycles, so for the city light hot wire I tapped into the parking light hot wire feed. For the low side I tapped into the the headlight low beam hot wire which supplied the ground when the headlamps were off. But when the headlamps were on, it provided a false ground (double positive) to the city lights low side, thus turning off the city lights. Works great. I used LEDs for everything except for the city lights and headlamps of course. No diodes necessary for the 91s and up.

 

Can't speak for the Renix........

 

So the city lights turn back on when your high beams are on?