neohic Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The cold is coming. As much as I hate to say it, winter is just around the corner up here in the north country. This will be the third winter in our current house and each year I've changed something in an attempt to make life more livable in the cold garage. Here's what I've done so far: 2011-12: Not much... we just moved in a couple months before winter and I just toughed it out. No insulation. Barely any light. Picked up a kerosene heater towards the end of the season and that helped. It was noisy but it was some heat, however the kerosene really irritated my eyes. 2012-13: This was after my big renovation and the garage was split up from an original, single garage and the newly built garage. This helped with heating as I now had a door to section off the single stall that I wanted to heat. I still only had a kerosene heater. Still loud, but it still did the job. Slightly better than the previous winter. 2013-14: Here's where I'm at. I'd really like to not use the kerosene heater in a desperate attempt to save myself from itchy eyes and the loud noise. While I want to insulate before the cold, I really don't see it happening. On the up side, I recently finished the ceiling so I think that'll help actually keep the heat in the garage. I think I want to try something new again. I've been looking around at online reviews for small suspended electric heaters like these: What I understand is that they're good for sustaining temperature, but if you want to warm up an area you need to plan ahead and turn up the thermostat the night before. I found a couple reviews from a couple guys in MN too. One guy has an uninsulated, double garage and he says that it works okay. The other also has an uninsulated, double garage but he uses two on either side of the garage and couldn't be happier. I'm hoping that someone here uses a similar heater and talks me into getting one this week... because the one pictured above is on sale. Obviously, having the entire space insulated would be ideal, but I'm looking for something that'd at least be better than previous years but would also work well long term as insulating the garage will probably happen sometime this coming year. What about not leaving it on all the time? Anybody know how fast these take to heat up a single stall garage? I think I'd even be happy enough this year if it would sustain above freezing but still use the kerosene heater for that blast of heat and then put it away again. Thoughts? Good idea to try? Just throwing money away? Figured I'd trust the professionals at everything ever that CC holds. Thanks everyone! ... and sorry for the long post with only one, little picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Want to drive down by me, pick up a blue interior, and a forced air wood/oil burner, call it a day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohic Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 Want to drive down by me, pick up a blue interior, and a forced air wood/oil burner, call it a day? I know... I know... Haven't forgotten about the interior. I talked to Rob about that recently too. He says he's waiting on a completed trailer to move everything at once if he gets there before I do. Been trying to figure out a good time to head over in that direction as well. :thumbsup: I thought about building a small wood burner, but I really want to keep everything off the floor that doesn't need to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 lol. I understand that. We went away from wood. you just can't heat a 30x50 space well enough with it, and the work cutting and space to store really makes it not worth while. So we're running gas and have a useless to us burner. would be perfect for a smaller space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohic Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 ... the work cutting and space to store really makes it not worth while... This. Really late in the season for me to be thinking about wood for the same reason of getting, cutting, and storing it all just to have to baby-sit everything later on. I agree that it'd be great for a smaller space though just because of the radiance of the stove as I'm working with a 14'x28' space. With that, I like the idea of heating with something relatively clean that doesn't need to be vented through the roof either. I know that's what dampers are for in a wood stove, but there's always that small amount of efficiency that you loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 You do have insulation now, correct? I added insulation to the garage door and the worst I have to do is put a fan at the inside door to the house to circulate the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpace6a Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 We have a heater like the one in your first post in our breakroom at work. Its tiny, like 12x15 tops, but it heats it up pretty well. As for heat, got a detached 4 car garage thats a big enough to hold 4 full size trucks with a storage loft above it, and we heat it with a wood stove. Stays nice and warm, and more than once has gotten warm enough we were working outside in t shirts while its sub-freezing outside. Theres an art to using wood for heat, and if you know it its well worth it, IMO. Although, i enjoy splitting wood by hand, too, so thats in my favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87manche1 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Electric heaters will burn up ur wallet. Trust me I've used one before I was an hvac tech now I know why. Go propane or natural gas. Ur wallet will thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87manche1 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 And infered or tube heaters are the way to go they actually warm the surfaces ie floor walls things and infered is the most efficient. I run one and my bills are only $10 more a month at 65 70 degrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohic Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 You do have insulation now, correct? I added insulation to the garage door and the worst I have to do is put a fan at the inside door to the house to circulate the air. Nope... no insulation for this year. :( Electric heaters will burn up ur wallet. Trust me I've used one before I was an hvac tech now I know why. Go propane or natural gas. Ur wallet will thank you. I heard that electric heaters are cheap enough to run when they're on a thermostat and are just maintaining a constant temp. :dunno: And infered or tube heaters are the way to go they actually warm the surfaces ie floor walls things and infered is the most efficient. I run one and my bills are only $10 more a month at 65 70 degrees Trying to stay away from anything that runs on a fuel gas if I can. The house is on LP and it already gets filled and refilled enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Subscribing to this thread as I'm interested in changing up my shop heating. Currently have a wood stove and it works great, but a "set it and forget it" type of heating device would be most excellent and a great time-saver for my after-work jaunts to the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87manche1 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 No insulation will hurt u even more. Have to look at how many times an hr it runs and for how long. Do u know the kilowats of it? 220 or 115v? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87manche1 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 My setup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I'd point out that gas in some cases isn't an expensive solution. If you're going to be in the shop for only a few hours, you crank up the heat 15 min. before going out to work, and it's warm by the time you get out. Having to turn on an electric heater hours beforehand. How do you feel about electrical fires? We have an automatic pilot house furnace set up in our shop. turn it down to 45 degrees @ night, up to 70 when we're working. works great, keeps things from freezing. This is a 30x60 work space in a cinder block shop with a tin roof and insulation only on the ceiling. Only bad thing about the insulation is that it keeps the heat from getting out on the roof, so we get ice sheet buildup that we have to break off constantly. heats it just enough while we're in there to melt it, then shutting it down allows it to ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87manche1 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Right he can probably run a 100lb lp tank all winter as long as he sets it lower when he's not in there. I have a feeling he doesn't have natural gas in the neighborhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohic Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 No insulation will hurt u even more. Have to look at how many times an hr it runs and for how long. Do u know the kilowats of it? 220 or 115v? 5000 watt max, 220v. Only bad thing about the insulation is that it keeps the heat from getting out on the roof, so we get ice sheet buildup that we have to break off constantly. heats it just enough while we're in there to melt it, then shutting it down allows it to ice. Another issue I've been thinking about. The roof above the garage stall is right at a valley that fills with snow. Right he can probably run a 100lb lp tank all winter as long as he sets it lower when he's not in there. I have a feeling he doesn't have natural gas in the neighborhood. Nope. No natural gas. Us and our few neighbors are all required to hook up to city sewer before November, but otherwise no utilities where I'm at. Getting the impression I should hold off with anything until I insulate. If I were to crank up the heat before going out, I'd just assume keep the kerosene heater for and tough out another season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87manche1 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Atleast start with the walls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Insulation will make a huge difference. My parents' attached garage is heated by an electric construction heater set fairly low. It's only a tiny little box, maybe 1 cu ft. but it cranks out the heat. I think they try to keep the garage at around 40-50F, but that heater can crank the air temperature up to t-shirt comfortable in about a half hour. Mind you, their garage is pretty small (my lwb MJ is a tight fit), but a couple years ago the 40 year old electric furnace kicked the bucket during a -35 snap. We propped open the door from the garage into the basement and turned it up, set up some fans, and it didn't do too badly keeping that big old drafty house liveable for a couple days before the new furnace showed up. Couldn't tell you how much power it uses, but the electric bill is pretty massive during the winter months... Also, the (albeit very limited) experience I've had with electric heat is that power-wise, it usually takes less to maintain a temperature than to leave, turn the heat down, and then try to bring it back up when you come back the next day. Especially when you have lots of stuff in the room that will act as a cold sink (like brick walls or concrete floors) that can take a lot of energy to heat up and will suck the heat out of the air. But there is a sweet spot on lowering the temperature (five degrees or so) that could get driven down pretty far with an uninsulated space, as you'd be losing a lot of heat to the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohic Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 Atleast start with the walls :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Us and our few neighbors are all required to hook up to city sewer before November, but otherwise no utilities where I'm at. :hijack: . Don't hook up - fight it if you must, but don't hook up to a sewer system. Once you are on it you are captive to their whims and rate increases. I've never heard anyone say they were happier after connecting to a sewer system, either municipal or run by a private company. . It is widely acknowledged these days that the best place to treat sewage is as close to the point of its generation as possible, making septic tanks the best treatment available. Many locales have passed laws "requiring" connection to sewage based on the false premise that doing so is required for environmental protection, but such have loopholes written in because they are lying and they need to provide a dodge to protect themselves. Most common is the caveat that as long as your septic system is functioning properly, you are not required to connect to sewage. (If you ever have to do repairs to your septic system, they will oftentimes require you to connect to sewage at that point - but you can fight that too.) They will tell you otherwise, but insist on reading the fine print. They want to get everyone trapped into using their sewage system, and I can promise you that IT IS NOT FOR YOUR BENEFIT, BUT INSTEAD FOR THEIRS. Once you are connected to their sewage system, you are not allowed to disconnect ever again - they have you trapped, and you are forever at the mercy of their rates and increases and regulations. . Need proof before you believe that septic systems are better than sewage, or need ammo to convince others? Educate yourself - start here: . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqyaCZ-qEWQ . Sorry for the hijack, but this is the Pub, after all. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohic Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 Quite the soapbox you've got there, and I see where you're coming from... but I'm not going to be that guy with the city. My neighbor is that guy and it's every project that he wants to do that the city is constantly crawling up his @$$ with every inspection and every permit. I've got a lot of plans for my property and I want to keep things as smooth as possible in the future. Not saying that I'm a kiss-@$$ when it comes to the city and that's the reason why I hooked up to sewer, but the noisy wheel always gets the grease. With that, my system needed an update sooner than later on top of the requirement of hooking up. My tank wasn't dug in deep enough for today's standards, and it's too small for the size of the house. Granted, it's just the wife and I living there so it'd probably be fine, but I'm always trying to think about the next guy. If I'm going to front the cash to dig up my old tank, replace it with bigger, plumb it, work in a new lift station, have it all inspected, and then deal with redoing my yard, I'd just assume let the city take care of where my $#!& goes. I'm at the end of the line in the system too so I doubt that I'd ever have to deal with any back-ups. I know that there's fine print and I know that there's always a way out, but when I would've had to spend much more to update everything on the property and then maintain it myself in the future, I just don't see the logic. Been thinking about infrared heaters last night and this morning. Figuring my stall is 14'x28' with a 10' ceiling, how big of a heating unit would one figure on looking into? Thanks for all the help from everyone on this too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87manche1 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I have a 40k btu for a long one care garage. http://m.grainger.com/mobile/details/?R=3E133 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87manche1 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 http://m.grainger.com/mobile/details/?R=3E461 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87manche1 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Closet I could find a tube heater 50k-75k btus was $900 or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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