Track Bar Movement

[88whitemanche]

What's up guys

I've been having death wobble after replacing my tie rod to a zj tie rod...I noticed that my track bar moves more than normal....

I had a buddy of mine turn the wheel and noticed the track bar at the axle has some play...I was wondering when I take off the track bar to put a bigger bolt do I have to get an alignment?

[Eagle]

Bigger bolt?

 

Are you going to drill out the hole in the axle bracket? If so, then you'll never EVER again be able to use a stock track bar and bolt.

 

Sounds to me like you need a track bar -- unless you can source a bushing. I've read that the bushing can be replaced, but I don't know of anyone who has actually done it.

 

Also, FWIW, a loose track bar does not cause death wobble. I drove my '88 XJ through an entire winter with almost a quarter turn of free play in the steering due to the track bar, and I had zero death wobble. You should fix the track bar ... but it's not causing your death wobble.

[Stacks]

+1 on the track bar not causing death wobble.  But...  on all the Jeeps I have owned and numerous others I have matched the bracket hole, bushing sleeve ID and bolt size to eliminate the movement you speak of.  You need to be very careful when drilling out the metal sleeve in the bushing.  Go slow and no bigger than absolutely necessary. just my two cents worth.

 

Larry

[Rockfrog]

Another on the "not the tracbar" bandwagon ... my 88 was purchased with a severely worn out tracbar mount. The ball end was tight but the mount was walled and allowed almost a half inch of play side to side. It was a weird feeling steering until the axle moved enough for the steering actually move the wheels. But no DW whatsoever, I was shocked really as I was expecting something.

 

My '00 XJ made sure I was well accustomed to DW, right up until the 3-link longarm upgrade. I like to think I helped keep Fruit-of-the-loom in business during that time period.

[88whitemanche]

Thanks guys

 

I figure it was the track bar moving when I had someone turning the steering wheel but come to notice even after just a few months ago I redid my whole steering brand new and one night of getting stuck and mudding crazy death wobble at high speeds 45-70mph...I know for a fact bent my tie rod and got replaced with a zj tie rod and now I think just for the sake of it just replace my draglink and draglink tie rod end....now I know a track bar won't cause death wobble its most likely the draglink....since that's what's left in the steering..

[carnuck]

If your toe-in is set correctly, you won't get deathwobble. My tracbar was loosened up on the driver's side. Tightened it up and wobble was gone. Adjusting the caster angle makes a hug difference too. Ever have a shopping cart with one wheel flapping around? That's pretty much the same as the cause of death wobble.

[Rockfrog]

poor alignment has been my main cause over the course of my battle. Usually as something moves and allows a large enough change ... tie rods and drag links can offer this. Especially if the base setting is right out to begin with. An extra 1/8" of toe in too much on worn front end components, and the highway can become the thing of nightmares. Too little caster and again you're looking for new shorts.

 

Usually, in my experience, DW is the result of multiple issues (small on their own), adding up to the right results at the wrong time. Add a lift in and it multiplies (again, usually cause you messed with the angles), small issues on stock geometry can result in a new undies bought of DW with a lift involved. It takes one hell of a bump for just a tracbar to start DW with low control arm angles (think hitting a big speed bump at 75 or so), less so when you lift. I'm willing to bet your alignment is out of spec enough, that a loose tracbar is acting as the catalyst. In my case it all started with poor alignment ... it wasn't causing it per se ... but add in a flexing tracbar bracket (that's a new one to me .. I just found it ... needed the power steering to find that one), and a bad UCA bushing ... DW. It's been a long battle for me, hope yours is shorter.

[88whitemanche]

Well it is my daily driver and I drive mostly highway mileage to get to where I'm going. It sucks because right when I'm picking up speed at about 40-60 mph is when it's about it's peak to go in to death wobble and when I'm slowing down it wobbles more like I know something is wrong there

[Eagle]

  On 9/13/2013 at 3:16 AM, 88whitemanche said:

Thanks guys

 

I figure it was the track bar moving when I had someone turning the steering wheel but come to notice even after just a few months ago I redid my whole steering brand new and one night of getting stuck and mudding crazy death wobble at high speeds 45-70mph...I know for a fact bent my tie rod and got replaced with a zj tie rod and now I think just for the sake of it just replace my draglink and draglink tie rod end....now I know a track bar won't cause death wobble its most likely the draglink....since that's what's left in the steering..

 

If the DW showed up after a night of mudding, it could just be mud caked into a wheel causing a massive imbalance.

[88whitemanche]

Eagle that's the first thing I checked after I felt the death wobble but no mud...

 

Just an update

While looking at my suspension I just decided to get a new drag link and draglink tie rod and while I was under there I was checking if my ball joints were bad...turning the tire just to see any different movement then I noticed where are my balance blocks? P.o.s sticky balance blocks were gone!!!!! Well since I had everything off I put the new draglink and tie rod in....and I'm at the tire shop demanding to not have the sticky balancing block! But the ones that go in the edge of the rim!!!!! Bastards!!!!! Will know after the balancing and alignment if everything went ok

 

Thanks guys for all your input....

[92tanMJ]

  On 9/12/2013 at 10:11 PM, Eagle said:

Bigger bolt?

 

Are you going to drill out the hole in the axle bracket? If so, then you'll never EVER again be able to use a stock track bar and bolt.

 

Sounds to me like you need a track bar -- unless you can source a bushing. I've read that the bushing can be replaced, but I don't know of anyone who has actually done it.

 

 Ive replaced mine it was rediculous to get out but I did it and it fixed my DW on my Xj got the bushing at autozone for like 8 bucks

[HOrnbrod]

  On 9/14/2013 at 3:00 PM, 88whitemanche said:

and I'm at the tire shop demanding to not have the sticky balancing block! But the ones that go in the edge of the rim!!!!! Bastards!!!!! Will know after the balancing and alignment if everything went ok

Which wheels do you have on the front? The 7" 10-spoke turbines like I do? I had the same problem with the stick-on inside outer edge wheel weights being knocked off when turning lock-to-lock. I found them laying in my driveway. It's the tie rod end links knocking them off when turning fully into the steering stops. Don't blame the tire shop - it only happens when you're in the stops and they don't know that. I didn't either until I figured it out. Brought it back and they fixed it free.

[88whitemanche]

Yes I do have the 10 spoke turbines...no worries they ended up doing them for free to....but preferred the weight that go in the edge if the rim...now no death wobble but I do still feel a bit of a shimmy around 40mph though but not much

[HOrnbrod]

It would be nice if all fixes were all this easy. But I think this applies only to the 7" wide rims, maybe only to the turbines. I had no problems using the stick-ons with various 8" rims.

[Oyaji]

I don't like hammer-on tire balancing weights for aluminum wheels because they dig in and really ruin the looks and finish - they can leave really nasty gouges in aluminum, but work dandy with steel wheels.

[HOrnbrod]

No one does. But in this case we're referring to hammer-on weights on the inside rim only.

[88whitemanche]

Yep...and the guys had a hard time getting them into the rim...I have the BFG all terrain and the lip of the rim some how hugs the rim and had trouble getting them in there...even to do an alignment the guy took over an hour and a half to finally get all four alignment mounts on the rims.

[Oyaji]

  On 9/16/2013 at 9:41 AM, 88whitemanche said:

Yep...and the guys had a hard time getting them into the rim...I have the BFG all terrain and the lip of the rim some how hugs the rim and had trouble getting them in there...even to do an alignment the guy took over an hour and a half to finally get all four alignment mounts on the rims.

.

I think it is more likely that the hammer-on weights in this case were made for steel rims, and so are a problem getting  over the thicker edge of an aluminum rim. Those really gouge the aluminum badly, and since the retaining clip is spread much wider to even get on the thick aluminum rim, they have a tendency to fly off sooner or later. Best keep an eye on them in case they let go.

.

If I remember correctly, there are hammer-on weights available with the proper clip spread for aluminum rims, but I shy away even from them. I used to do all my own tire work, having access to a shop with  lift racks, air-driven tire mounting machine, and dynamic balancer. (I'd still do it now, but my health no longer permits it...).

.

Maybe if you just have them tape on the weights a quarter inch farther inboard you would be okay with your turbine wheels? I never had any problem with tape-on weights getting knocked off the stock aluminum wheels from 1992 (I forget the name of the style, but they are 5-spoke with the crappy 2-piece lug nuts).    

[88whitemanche]

I get what your saying...I really love my turbines I love the way they give that factory look to the truck even with a small lift...but the back spacing on these rims suck!!! I'm leaning more to get some d-window rims because I don't like spacers even if they are hub centric....