AeroNautical Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I've read a few articles and seen some videos on some ideas for constructing a bastard pack for an XJ by taking the top leaf and adding the full pack from an S10 to give about 3 inches of lift and a beefier build, plus longer shackles for even more height. With MJ leafs being longer than XJ, what would replicate that? Has anyone done this, or is it even recommended? I'm just trying to feel out my options for a lift and to allow a bit more weight in the bed, and figure this might be a cheaper way to do it. Your insight, ideas, and criticism (to a lesser degree) are always appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 A number of members here have run bastard packs. I've used them in pony cars set up for road racing and in XJs, but I haven't done an MJ ... yet. How much lift do you want, and how stiff a ride are you willing to tolerate? There comes a point where the springs no longer act like springs. Example: A (very) long time ago, I was an active member of the Hudson-Essex-Terraplane Club. Not many people are aware that, until 1947, Hudson made pickups as well as automobiles. At one time I owned three. Two had standard leaf springs in the rear -- with probably five or six leaves (going from memory). The best one, a 1947, had springs that were at least twice as many leaves as the others. It was all factory -- the springs were assembled the same way, and there was no indication they had ever been out of the truck or tinkered with. It was just a one-ton rather than a half ton. There were no rear shock absorbers in it when I bought it, and it didn't need any. My brother and I were not small guys. We could both climb into the bed and jump up and down, and it just didn't move. Not an inch. Not even a half an inch. On my road race Javelin, I think I ended up with a six-leaf spring. Ride was firm but not uncomfortable, and with truck shocks both the ride and handling were fantastic. Have you tried using search yet? I would think if you search this site for "bastard pack" you should get some hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockfrog Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 My MJ has stock rear springs, and with just that, the rear end hops around on rough roads in ths twistys (the highway to where I work looks like some one dropped a ball of yarn and said "build that"). I'd be leary of increasing that kind of spring rate. It's stiff enough as is. That said my XJ has a dakota bastard in the rear for 4" of spring lift. Increasing the spring rate will make thw springs good for the heavier load, but does nothing for the chassis which is only good for so much weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscowell Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Someone on NAXJA used a 90s 2wd Ford leafs and said it gave him about 3" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 My MJ has stock rear springs, and with just that, the rear end hops around on rough roads in ths twistys (the highway to where I work looks like some one dropped a ball of yarn and said "build that"). I'd be leary of increasing that kind of spring rate. It's stiff enough as is. That said my XJ has a dakota bastard in the rear for 4" of spring lift. Increasing the spring rate will make thw springs good for the heavier load, but does nothing for the chassis which is only good for so much weight. Jeep didn't make any changes to the chassis when they beefed up the springs to offer the Metric Tonne package. The Metric Tonne MJs have a load capacity of 2200 pounds -- that's a full one ton capacity (hence the name -- a metric ton is 1000 kilograms, or 2200 pounds) in a compact pickup. I don't think we have to worry about the MJ's ability to carry loads. Sounds to me like you need new shocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroNautical Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 I'm just trying to feel out my options for a lift. My plan is to make my MJ capable off road, but not a crawler. I'd also like to haul a good amount of weight, a ton would be great, but I realize that would make the ride very stiff. I'm lookin at no more than 4 1/2 inch lift, with 31x10.5 tires. The cheaper, the better as long as it doesn't compromise safety. I have not tried search yet, usually because it doesn't seem to help much, but I'll do that. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Your MJ is already capable off-road, and you can run 31x10.50s with NO lift. Think hard about why you think you need a 4-1/2 inch lift. Especially as it seems money IS an object. To go to 4-1/2" you're looking at some serious money. You'll need springs, adjustable track bar, adjustable control arms, and possibly drop brackets if it's going to be a daily driver. And new shocks, all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDirtyJeep401 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Not to high jack the thread, but you had a Javelin?? Also what a bout a 3 in lift in the rear, any ideas on what leafs to use? On my road race Javelin, I think I ended up with a six-leaf spring. Ride was firm but not uncomfortable, and with truck shocks both the ride and handling were fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroNautical Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 Your MJ is already capable off-road, and you can run 31x10.50s with NO lift. Think hard about why you think you need a 4-1/2 inch lift. Especially as it seems money IS an object. To go to 4-1/2" you're looking at some serious money. You'll need springs, adjustable track bar, adjustable control arms, and possibly drop brackets if it's going to be a daily driver. And new shocks, all around. Money isn't as much an issue as it is just me trying to save where possible. I do realize what's required for a lift, but I'm planning on using the junkyard to my advantage. Y'know, beefier zj coils with spacers and control arms, bastard pack, ome shocks, etc. I know I can run 31s with stock height, but I'd like a bit of flex, with a sway bar disconnect. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Your MJ is already capable off-road, and you can run 31x10.50s with NO lift. Think hard about why you think you need a 4-1/2 inch lift. Especially as it seems money IS an object. To go to 4-1/2" you're looking at some serious money. You'll need springs, adjustable track bar, adjustable control arms, and possibly drop brackets if it's going to be a daily driver. And new shocks, all around. Money isn't as much an issue as it is just me trying to save where possible. I do realize what's required for a lift, but I'm planning on using the junkyard to my advantage. Y'know, beefier zj coils with spacers and control arms, bastard pack, ome shocks, etc. I know I can run 31s with stock height, but I'd like a bit of flex, with a sway bar disconnect. What do you think? ZJ V8 coils are the same springs as late XJ Up Country coils -- they give you 1-inch of lift over stock. To get to 4-1/2" you'll need the ZJ coils plus two 1-3/4" spacers on each side. The spacers alone cost $40/pair, so you're talking $80 plus the cost of junkyard spring to do a kludge of a lift. ZJ control arms are exactly the same as XJ control arms. The better arms are WJ, but they're still the same length, so they won't correct the steering/suspension geometry issues created by a 4-1/2" lift. The best way to save money on a lift is not to lift any more than you NEED to. If you run 31x10.50s on OEM Jeep rims, they tuck inside the wheel wells just fine and the only way you can increase articulation is to remove the bump stops. I don't think you've thought this out very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroNautical Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 The idea for this thread is to get ideas and information. Your right, I haven't thought it out step by step, because I don't know exactly what I want yet. I want the ability to flex, and at stock height with 31s, how far could it without rubbing? That's the only reason I want that lift, maybe 3 inches is enough, I don't know and that's why I'm asking. I also want to be able to carry a decent load. If i have to spend the money on a full kit, I will. I'm just trying to avoid that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 i would go 2" coil spacers and longer shackles ( chevy 2" drop). get the 31s and your good to go , cheaply and a very capable truck with no mods ( no control arms or tracbar or anything else needed). it will have a nice stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 i would go 2" coil spacers and longer shackles ( chevy 2" drop). get the 31s and your good to go , cheaply and a very capable truck with no mods ( no control arms or tracbar or anything else needed). it will have a nice stance. I agree -- almost. I do agree on setting 2 inches as the maximum lift. But don't forget that part of the plan here is to increase load capacity, which coil spacers and shackles will NOT do. But the front can be lifted 2" (or 1/3/4") by a combination of ZJ V8 coils with 3/4" spacers. In the rear, it's easy to get a 2" lift and added capacity with a bastard spring pack. Using a second set of MJ main leaves would likely be perfect, but that may be difficult to find. But there should be a (ahem) metric ton of older S-10s and Dakotas with spring-under rear suspensions, so using the leaf packs out of any of those would be a good source of donor materials. Even springs from a YJ Wrangler could be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm not familiar with the curve of the s-10 or dakota leafs and how they compare to the curve of the mj leafs. what i have in mine is chevy 3/4 ton suburban leaf packs with every other leaf removed. i got no lift from this but the ride is excellent and payload is slightly higher. ( i have no way to measure this, but have hauled many loads of firewood both with the mj springs and the suburban ones. on a side note, - when i did the spring-over, i moved the bottom shock mounts onto the tube. this brought them up about 5".so stock -height shocks are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroNautical Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Alright, bringing an old post back to life. I'm adding a helper, had a question about this: Not enough clearance inside the pack brackets to add a leaf, what are your recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I built my own spring clamps using 3/16 steel plate, a flat hex bolt and nut, and finished off with a roll pin bolted in place at the top. All parts were found in the hardware section at my local True Value. They are just there to keep the leaves in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComancheKid45 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Just take the bolt out of the top, the clamp is attached to the 3rd leaf and will still function fine minus the bolt. It will also allow the leafs to expand under articulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroNautical Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Awesome, thanks for the help. Next question is how to quiet the leaf a bit. Stock they didn't make any noise, but after adding this leaf it squeaks like hell. Teflon pad, silicone grease? Leaf from lifted XJ pack: The pack with the new leaf: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjy_26 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Wire wheel all the rust off of those leaves, then paint, then, after they're dry, hit them with slip plate. You can get it at Grainger or at your local John Deere dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjy_26 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Oh, and try to file down any sharp edges the leaves might have so they don't eat each other up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Make sure your anti friction pads are not worn out. Make sure your new AAL has anti friction pads at each end. I coated the leaves in POR15 then applied Slip Plate before the POR15 was dry. My local farm supply store had the Slip Plate near the tractor repair parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeast Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'm actually thinking about this and have..I was going to use mainly s-10 leafs under my rear bc I'm sagging a little..I also thought about just cutting the main leafs eyes out and adding it but I would loose alot of articulation so I will probably just add 1 or 2 smaller to give a little boost and maybe discard a few others till I get it where I want it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjy_26 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Make sure your anti friction pads are not worn out. Make sure your new AAL has anti friction pads at each end. I coated the leaves in POR15 then applied Slip Plate before the POR15 was dry. My local farm supply store had the Slip Plate near the tractor repair parts. Does using the slip plate on wet paint make it mix with the paint or maybe last longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Does using the slip plate on wet paint make it mix with the paint or maybe last longer? That was my theory behind doing it this way. I have also read of folks mixing Slip Plate or graphite powder with enamels when painting their springs. Regardless of how you approach the spring paint, any graphite will eventually wear off. When my '92 was in the body shop the painter and myself talked about POR15 quite a bit. He said when using POR15 he likes to get his primer on before the POR15 hardens up because POR15 does not take a top coat once it has hardened very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjy_26 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Interesting. I may have to try that with my leaves. On my old Dodge, I used to just flex it out on my buddy's lift and spray slip plate between the leaves two or three times a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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