Blue88Comanche Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I was looking for new axle shafts on rockauto.com for my dana 30 non cad axle. They had the normal shafts with u-joints and shafts with C/V joints. I know the joints are physically different, and the ultimate function it to turn the wheels, but what is the difference? How do they compare for street driving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 The CV joints are smoother for street driving, and supposedly about as strong as the small u joints. The u joint shafts with the large joints supposedly are stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanchedude Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I run cv joint shafts listed on rock auto under 1996 grand with v8 ..they are like 45.bucks and have lifetime warranty that I have used twice .they will cross ship you a replacement .. Or in my case I have spares and just cross ship units after I swap.. In 3 years I have broke one and one busted boot, they replaced them and covered shipping..can't beat it. I run the cv shafts because they are smoother .and I have found them to be as strong.. And when you break one you don't have to worry about busting ball joints. Cvs just break clean. I run them with 35s. Work great . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue88Comanche Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 Cool, I did notice when I make sharp turns in my mj I can tell the ujoints are there where as in dads KJ limited it was nice and smooth in sharp turns. I will be using the mj on the street 95% of the time and I don't foresee and big off road trips.. When dad gets back home in a month I guess we will swap the shafts to the C/V style. Thanks for the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotex Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I run cv joint shafts listed on rock auto under 1996 grand with v8 ..they are like 45.bucks and have lifetime warranty that I have used twice .they will cross ship you a replacement .. Or in my case I have spares and just cross ship units after I swap.. In 3 years I have broke one and one busted boot, they replaced them and covered shipping..can't beat it. I run the cv shafts because they are smoother .and I have found them to be as strong.. And when you break one you don't have to worry about busting ball joints. Cvs just break clean. I run them with 35s. Work great . Thanks so much for posting that. I was recently looking at axles shafts to do away with the two piece one, and like the idea of running CV's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue88Comanche Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 I ordered my axle shafts yesterday, they should arrive saturday, and on sunday i will install them if the weather allows. here is what i ordered hopefully, it is correct and will work without much hassle. this will be my first time installing axle shafts, so this outta be fun. 1996 JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE 5.2L V8 663221 (66-3221) CV Half Shaft Assembly $ 43.79 663220 (66-3220) CV Half Shaft Assembly $ 43.99 shipping $ 35.64 discount $ -4.39 total $119.03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanchedude Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Exact parts I run. you will need to remove the abs rings (they will tap off) they cause unit bearing fitment issue on our year units. and you don't need them I ordered my axle shafts yesterday, they should arrive saturday, and on sunday i will install them if the weather allows. here is what i ordered hopefully, it is correct and will work without much hassle. this will be my first time installing axle shafts, so this outta be fun. 1996 JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE 5.2L V8 663221 (66-3221) CV Half Shaft Assembly $ 43.79 663220 (66-3220) CV Half Shaft Assembly $ 43.99 shipping $ 35.64 discount $ -4.39 total $119.03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue88Comanche Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Exact parts I run. you will need to remove the abs rings (they will tap off) they cause unit bearing fitment issue on our year units. and you don't need them thanks for the info, that will save a lot of time and hassle! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 SO... can i get these same parts and put them in a cad axle? same dimensions yeah? just remove the vacuum unit? Or am i crazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanchedude Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I did run a cad for couple years till it bent..std shaft will work. you have to remove the inner shaft (duhh right) and there is a seal that you have to replace, search for info on web its there and will provide detail on the seal and retrofit. SO... can i get these same parts and put them in a cad axle? same dimensions yeah? just remove the vacuum unit? Or am i crazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I found multiple answers. Seems many guys do it the wrong way and put diff seals in the cad area, which then ride on the raw surface of the axle and typically leak. The proper way is to put the correct seal in at the diff housing, the same way it is in the axle housing that your new one piece axle came from. Then no more leaks. :) This is dope info guys. I really would rather have CVs on my new setup so i don't eat balljoints on the trail. Gonna run 35s on D30. So this just made my year. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnkyboy Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 If you want CVs spend the money on RCVs. Guys on 35s can break 760 joints so I couldnt imagine you being able to wheel very hard on ZJ shafts. You will find that a lot of ZJ guys swap them out for XJ 297 joints or bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanchedude Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I have run them for 3 years running 35 pitbull rockers ..they have held up great.... But some people just break $#!& all the time usually it's the guys who can't control their right foot..ha ha.. The RCV are cool..but at 1k a set its way to much for me..and I don't have the need anyway as I don't break shafts that much and when I do I have a spare and 15 / 20 min later I'm all good.. But they would be the best shaft if you need them.. If you want CVs spend the money on RCVs. Guys on 35s can break 760 joints so I couldnt imagine you being able to wheel very hard on ZJ shafts. You will find that a lot of ZJ guys swap them out for XJ 297 joints or bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainman Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 ^^^^ this. we run imports on full slicks, we make 800 hp to the wheels, and launch at 8k rpm. We run STOCK Cvs cause thats all thats available cheap. Sometimes they last 60 runs, sometimes they last 3 runs. They are far smaller than these are For me they should be great. A manch is light and i don't plan on standing on it. A ZJ weighs way more than my manch and has a v8 usually pushing it. My main concern is not destroying a balljoint on the trail. I'm only gonna be running the 30 till i finish building my front 44, or decide to put up with the giant RC car look and go Tons. Ill have a full extra set with me at all times, if i start spitting them out then ill get some 760 jointed regular axles before next trip. Ill figure it out for sure. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnkyboy Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 People often make the mistake of comparing street or strip cars to wheelers. What works for one doesnt always work for the other, the loads applied to parts are different. I personally wouldnt run the ZJ axles with any bigger then maybe a 30" or 31"tire, but maybe they will work for you. FWIW the CVs are comperable strength wise to a stock 260x u joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanchedude Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I would like to see some documentation to support your information..I have never located any info that gives the strength of the factory CV.. but what I do know is in use on the trail they do prove to be as strong the u joint shafts in my experience. but I have wanted to find some documentation that give the strength of the units. you can find Plenty of statements to the strength but no actual specs or documentation to back them up. FWIW the CVs are comperable strength wise to a stock 260x u joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnkyboy Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Ive never seen any solid numbers for them either. I do know that 297x joints are considered an upgrade for both the ZJ guys and the few XJ that came with them. And from what I have seen many people consider the cv's to be only marginally stronger then a 260x. You are the first person ive heard of that is wheeling on them with any success. I know a guy who was grenading ZJ cv's on 32s and open diffs, he went to 297s a couple years ago and hasn't broken one since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exgrayxj Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Hijack I need to replace one of my joints on my '90. Am I correct that I can just replace both axles with the later larger joint axle? As in, still use my hub bearings, no other change than the axles? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanchedude Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Yes no mods Hijack I need to replace one of my joints on my '90. Am I correct that I can just replace both axles with the later larger joint axle? As in, still use my hub bearings, no other change than the axles? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89eliminator Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I run cv joint shafts listed on rock auto under 1996 grand with v8 ..they are like 45.bucks and have lifetime warranty that I have used twice .they will cross ship you a replacement .. Or in my case I have spares and just cross ship units after I swap.. In 3 years I have broke one and one busted boot, they replaced them and covered shipping..can't beat it. I run the cv shafts because they are smoother .and I have found them to be as strong.. And when you break one you don't have to worry about busting ball joints. Cvs just break clean. I run them with 35s. Work great . hmmm, interesting. never thought of the breakage that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Hijack I need to replace one of my joints on my '90. Am I correct that I can just replace both axles with the later larger joint axle? As in, still use my hub bearings, no other change than the axles? Thanks Small u joint shafts, large u joint shafts and CV joint shafts are all interchangeable, to a point. You can't run a disconnect shaft in a non-disconnect housing. You can run a non-disconnect passenger side shaft in a disconnect housing, but you need to remove the vacuum shift mechanism and add a non standard oil seal in the diff. Not a bad idea to also block off the shift housing opening with a plate. All CV axle shafts I have seen have a tone ring for ABS, some large u joint shafts do as well. Some unit bearings do not work with the tone ring. The tone ring is just a press fit on the axle, though and a couple of good whacks with a hammer will remove it. Or you could go buy a new unit bearing for ~$100. I prefer to use the hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exgrayxj Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Thanks, Mvusse. That is exactly what I was thinking, my '90 has disco, and was planning on replacing both sides with non-disco later axles, but was unsure if it would also require later bearings. My plan was to gut the disco mechanism. This would then use the same inside seal at the carrier, I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Thanks, Mvusse. That is exactly what I was thinking, my '90 has disco, and was planning on replacing both sides with non-disco later axles, but was unsure if it would also require later bearings. My plan was to gut the disco mechanism. This would then use the same inside seal at the carrier, I guess? No, the stock seal will not work because the passenger side tube has not been machined for it. Napa Oil Seal 11800 works pretty good. And since there is nothing in the tube to prevent the seal from going in deeper, when it goes bad, just put a new one up against it, pushing the bad one deeper into the tube. The housing under Sparkles (which was the original housing under Wilbur) now has 5 or 6 seals on the passenger side. Every time I broke a shaft it ate out the seal causing it to start leaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnkyboy Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 On mine I decide to just get a non cad axle and bolt it in. I got one piece shafts and big joints for $150. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue88Comanche Posted February 16, 2013 Author Share Posted February 16, 2013 To remove the ABS ring I suggest getting a puller it made it so much easier than using just a hammer After the puller was set up I put the hammer through the center of the puller for leverage and use my tire wrench on the puller it self, a few turns later it came off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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