Comanche County Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Fellas, need some expert opinions on this one. Something happened to the MJ’s steering and it’s now undriveable. I drove it 100 miles to my brother’s house to help him finish some work on his CJ. We finished that and I pulled the MJ in his garage. It sat there for two full days. When we finished setting up the ARB air lines, I topped off all the fluids – a little bit of ATF in the PS pump. Then took it for a little test drive around his neighborhood. I barely got it out of the garage and turned on to the street. I couldn’t even drive it in a straight line at 10 miles an hour around the sub division, much less make a turn. I’ve had PS pumps fail before, this will be the third I’ve put on the MJ, but this time it was completely unsafe. In fact the steering is almost ripping from my hands pulling in either direction seemingly indifferent to speed or straight line travel. :fs1: I figured it was the PS pump anyway. So this morning we went to the JY and pulled another one. I got that on the MJ and the same thing happened. I couldn’t turn at all. It would only turn if I yanked it hard and leaned on turning the steering wheel. The PS pump screams if I turn it more than 20-30 degrees in either direction. It took a 35 point turn just to get it turned 90 degrees back into the driveway. I cleaned the “new” pump and filled it with new PS fluid. Already it turned a boiling chocolate milk color. :headpop: I know the locker isn’t the problem, its unlocking and it wouldn’t be this severe even still locked. The brakes are fine. The new pump is circulating so I know the high pressure line and the return line aren’t plugged. The only thing I can think of is perhaps the steering gear box decided to quit, but its strange because it drove fine to get here and only sat in the garage. The only changes were a new airline to the front locker and a bit of ATF in the power steering pump. So what do you guys think, the gear box? I’ve had them fail in other cars too but it was more a wear issue where they slowly gained more and more slop. I’ve never had a surprise steering failure like this ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj Mike Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 that doesn't sound good sound more like the box then the PS pump. there might be air in the system, did you try bleeding it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbert001 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 That's a new one to me man! The pump in my ZJ was dying, but it still went down the road fine. Just didn't help at idle. Just off idle, and it would turn just fine. Let us know what you figure out! I think it's the way of the Jeep. We'll throw parts at em' till they are brand new, then start over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 that doesn't sound good sound more like the box then the PS pump. there might be air in the system, did you try bleeding it? First thing I thought of was air in the system - didn't bleed by cranking R-L-R-L stop-to-stop at idle until the air bubbles were gone. Then a bad pressure relief valve in the pump, but both pumps? Not likely. Would be hard to cross the pressure and return pump lines............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I'd say the steering box. BTW, in our Jeeps, ATF is not an acceptable substitute for power steering fluid (according to the owner's manual). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbyluvv Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 air in the system? Jack it up and turn the steering lock to lock about 20 times WITHOUT it running. Do it again with it running. then lower it and take it for a drive. The non-running will force the gear to bleed the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Yeah, I'll try bleeding it like that. If it doesn't work then I'm heading to the yard to pick up a steering box. Come to think of it, it's actually been leaking for some time now. I'll try the Durango box upgrade if they've got one sitting out there. If not, I may just buy a new one, rather not put another used XJ/MJ box in it. I know of a YJ that's in another JY about 130 miles away, those are also a little stronger because of the fourth attaching bolt. But not as beefy as the Durango box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 air in the system? Jack it up and turn the steering lock to lock about 20 times WITHOUT it running. Do it again with it running. then lower it and take it for a drive. The non-running will force the gear to bleed the air. Hmm, never had to do that, the turning w/o the engine running when replacing a pump and/or box. But if it works, that's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbyluvv Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 We get air blocks in the Hummers all the time when we do engine swaps. This is the only we can get the blockage out of the steering gear. I am hoping that is his problem and the ATF did not smoke his new pump or the steering gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 I did the non running bleeding procedure. It helped some. Turns out though the air lockers front and rear were not disengaging. When I disconnected the air lines at the compressor they unlocked and it was driveable. I'm thinking now my problem is a combination of a weakened gearbox and two faulty ARB solenoids. I'm certain I have them wired correctly but I'm going to double check again. Still, even when the front is locked it shouldn't be like a dead stop. I should be able to turn even on pavement. I'm thinking I should have gone with Detroits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motion Offroad Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 If you have the ARB 180103 Solenoid's you can service them yourself. The procedure for dismantling the solenoid valve is as follows: 1. Unscrew and remove the top nut 2. Lift coil body 3. Remove screws from retainer plate 4. Pull to remove the retainer plate, tube and plunger 5. The valve can now be cleaned and serviced, making sure the bottom of the plunger and its seat in the body are in good condition 6. Reassemble as above A fast "on the trail" fix for a malfunctioning solenoid is to dismantle the solenoid as above but remove the return spring from the plunger and reassemble without it. This will allow the Air Locker to engage but it won't be possible to disengage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Thanks Adam, those are the type I've got. On top of the magnet, could I have the black star nut and the small hollow 8mm top nut too tight thus not allowing the plunger to move? How tight should they be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Still, even when the front is locked it shouldn't be like a dead stop. I should be able to turn even on pavement. What makes you think that? Think about what's happening when you turn the front wheels. If you're stopped and try to turn the wheels, the inside tire actually has to rotate backwards while the outside tire has to rotate forwards. If the axle is effectively a solid axle (locked), that ain't gonna work. Even if you're moving, the difference between the inner and outer tires is significant even in a gentle turn. I'd say you have identified your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 With my Aussie locker in the front, when there is power to the pinion (ie, it is locked tight), I CANNOT steer at all unless I'm moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 I got it fixed. Main culprit was the gear box. Went to the yard and couldn't find a Durango and went ahead and pulled one from a 136k 95' XJ. Got it put in and I can turn the wheel while stationary and locked all the way from left to right without the hang up. It seemed the old gear box would just quit, while either stationary or moving. Yep the front locker is essentially a spool and it's definitely tougher to turn but It wasn't turning at all, so far so good, it's driveable again. Thanks for all the responses! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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