MJ D44 ZJ disk brake swap

[AZJeff]

The Teraflex kit is “ok”, but if requires some “aftermarket engineering” to make it OEM quality.

 

i am a retired professional mechanical engineer, and have been working on cars for 50+ years, so doing some “custom adaptation” is not beyond by skills.

 
If you are looking for “plug and play”, the Teraflex kit isn’t quite there.

[WahooSteeler]

1 hour ago, EUREKA said:

 

The Teraflex kit seems to use calipers from 2003-2006 TJ/LJ. What Wilwood calipers bolt up to that? I don't see any calipers listed for that application from Wilwood.

I am considering modifying he Wilwood kit for the Dana 35 so that I can have the better calipers ect.

 

https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitAdvisor

 

No idea......

[WahooSteeler]

2 hours ago, AZJeff said:

If you are looking for “plug and play”, the Teraflex kit isn’t quite there.

 

What is then, if at all?

[EUREKA]

2 hours ago, AZJeff said:

The Teraflex kit is “ok”, but if requires some “aftermarket engineering” to make it OEM quality.

 

i am a retired professional mechanical engineer, and have been working on cars for 50+ years, so doing some “custom adaptation” is not beyond by skills.

 
If you are looking for “plug and play”, the Teraflex kit isn’t quite there.

Pretty please elaborate. Are you referring to ebrake cable issues?

[derf]

10 hours ago, AZJeff said:

The Teraflex kit is “ok”, but if requires some “aftermarket engineering” to make it OEM quality.

 

i am a retired professional mechanical engineer, and have been working on cars for 50+ years, so doing some “custom adaptation” is not beyond by skills.

 
If you are looking for “plug and play”, the Teraflex kit isn’t quite there.

On the XJ I didn't have that problem.

 

Like evey disc brake kit I had to get longer wheel studs.  The 44 has really short studs.

[AZJeff]

11 hours ago, EUREKA said:

Pretty please elaborate. Are you referring to ebrake cable issues?

Yes, I am referring to ebrake issues.   The standard cables used on most older Jeep ebrakes have an outer jacket that passes through a hole in the drum brake backing plate.  There is a spring clip that is attached to the end of the jacket, and it contains prongs that lock the jacket into the backing plate.

 

When those standard cables are used on the Teraflex kit, the casting that supports the caliper contains an "ear" with a hole that this ebrake cable is supposed to pass through, mimicing the way it does on a drum brake backing plate.   It's intended to be locked into this "ear" with the same spring clip prongs as mentioned above.

 

The problem with the Teraflex kit is that the casting where the "ear" is located is WAY too thick for the spring clip to have it's prongs pop out and lock the cable in place.   And NONE of the cables available for MJ's or XJ's use a clip that is dimensionally compatible with this thicker "ear".

 

I talked with Teraflex tech. support about the issue, and they claimed that this is the first they heard of the issue.  But, they also admitted that none of their replacement OEM-type ebrake cables would lock into the "ear" on the casting, so they acknowledge the problem, but claim no customers have complained.

 

Realizing I was wasting my time discussing the issue with Teraflex, I designed a retention bracket of my own, and drilled and tapped a hole in the casting to allow this bracket to be bolted on and retain the ebrake cable from the outside of the hole in the "ear".   My solution is a secure mounting of the ebrake cable, but does not rely on a spring clip like an OEM system (like that used on my wife's KJ) would.

[AZJeff]

And yes, longer wheel studs on mandatory on all of the D35 and D44's used on MJ"s.

[EUREKA]

16 minutes ago, AZJeff said:

Yes, I am referring to ebrake issues.   The standard cables used on most older Jeep ebrakes have an outer jacket that passes through a hole in the drum brake backing plate.  There is a spring clip that is attached to the end of the jacket, and it contains prongs that lock the jacket into the backing plate.

 

When those standard cables are used on the Teraflex kit, the casting that supports the caliper contains an "ear" with a hole that this ebrake cable is supposed to pass through, mimicing the way it does on a drum brake backing plate.   It's intended to be locked into this "ear" with the same spring clip prongs as mentioned above.

 

The problem with the Teraflex kit is that the casting where the "ear" is located is WAY too thick for the spring clip to have it's prongs pop out and lock the cable in place.   And NONE of the cables available for MJ's or XJ's use a clip that is dimensionally compatible with this thicker "ear".

 

I talked with Teraflex tech. support about the issue, and they claimed that this is the first they heard of the issue.  But, they also admitted that none of their replacement OEM-type ebrake cables would lock into the "ear" on the casting, so they acknowledge the problem, but claim no customers have complained.

 

Realizing I was wasting my time discussing the issue with Teraflex, I designed a retention bracket of my own, and drilled and tapped a hole in the casting to allow this bracket to be bolted on and retain the ebrake cable from the outside of the hole in the "ear".   My solution is a secure mounting of the ebrake cable, but does not rely on a spring clip like an OEM system (like that used on my wife's KJ) would.

Thanks for the details. I recall someone mentioning something about a VW part that may address this. I'll have to search around.

[derf]

BTW, the wheel studs I ordered are DORMAN 610449 from Rockauto.

 

I also have had zero problems with the parking brake cables.  I bought the Teraflex cables they sell to go along with their kit.  The cable is always under enough tension that nothing ever comes apart.

[ghetdjc320]

17 hours ago, EUREKA said:

 

The Teraflex kit seems to use calipers from 2003-2006 TJ/LJ. What Wilwood calipers bolt up to that? I don't see any calipers listed for that application from Wilwood.

I am considering modifying he Wilwood kit for the Dana 35 so that I can have the better calipers ect.

 

https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitAdvisor

The D35 kit comes with dual piston D154 calipers. Some member on this forum swapped to 4 piston rears. Can’t remember who it was. If doing 4 piston rears then I’d do 6 piston fronts. Or just leave as is and run the 2 piston rears and 4 piston fronts

[WahooSteeler]

12 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

The D35 kit comes with dual piston D154 calipers. Some member on this forum swapped to 4 piston rears. Can’t remember who it was. If doing 4 piston rears then I’d do 6 piston fronts. Or just leave as is and run the 2 piston rears and 4 piston fronts

 

I think Gjeep did this......that's who I bought the calipers, rotors and pads from when he decided to go that route. 

[EUREKA]

4 hours ago, derf said:

BTW, the wheel studs I ordered are DORMAN 610449 from Rockauto.

 

I also have had zero problems with the parking brake cables.  I bought the Teraflex cables they sell to go along with their kit.  The cable is always under enough tension that nothing ever comes apart.

[EUREKA]

4 hours ago, WahooSteeler said:

 

I think Gjeep did this......that's who I bought the calipers, rotors and pads from when he decided to go that route. 

thank you

[EUREKA]

4 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

The D35 kit comes with dual piston D154 calipers. Some member on this forum swapped to 4 piston rears. Can’t remember who it was. If doing 4 piston rears then I’d do 6 piston fronts. Or just leave as is and run the 2 piston rears and 4 piston fronts

I was just curious is any Wilwood caliper bolt up to the Teraflex kit.

 

Yes, as of now I am strongly leaning towards the Wilwood kits for both front and rear. 4 piston in the front and 2 in the rear.

Theses kits, Front Brake Kit Part No.: 140-12576-DR , Rear Brake Kit Part No.: 140-12567-DR

 

I know I will need to switch the steering knuckles on my 91 to those from my 88 for the front, and have to modify the backing plates mounting holes and use bearing preload spacers for the rears. I'm not yet sure how to deal with the ebrakes when using the Wilwood kit for the rear. Btw your help has been absolutely invaluable! I sincerely appreciate you.

[ghetdjc320]

8 hours ago, EUREKA said:

I was just curious is any Wilwood caliper bolt up to the Teraflex kit.

 

Yes, as of now I am strongly leaning towards the Wilwood kits for both front and rear. 4 piston in the front and 2 in the rear.

Theses kits, Front Brake Kit Part No.: 140-12576-DR , Rear Brake Kit Part No.: 140-12567-DR

 

I know I will need to switch the steering knuckles on my 91 to those from my 88 for the front, and have to modify the backing plates mounting holes and use bearing preload spacers for the rears. I'm not yet sure how to deal with the ebrakes when using the Wilwood kit for the rear. Btw your help has been absolutely invaluable! I sincerely appreciate you.

The e brake cable is the TJ style. Looks like you have a good overview of what’s needed now. Let us know how it goes! Grab that adjustable Wilwood prop valve to if possible. Your 88 knuckles have a ball joint preload insert on the bottom of the knuckle. There should be no need to mess with it but if it is damaged or you decide to replace it (normally a new one come with the lower ball joint set for your 88), you will need the appropriate spaner wrench and set it to a depth of  .206 

[EUREKA]

5 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

The e brake cable is the TJ style. Looks like you have a good overview of what’s needed now. Let us know how it goes! Grab that adjustable Wilwood prop valve to if possible. Your 88 knuckles have a ball joint preload insert on the bottom of the knuckle. There should be no need to mess with it but if it is damaged or you decide to replace it (normally a new one come with the lower ball joint set for your 88), you will need the appropriate spaner wrench and set it to a depth of  .206 

Wilwood valve is already in my shopping cart. I actually replaced the ballpoints in my 88 about 2 years ago and the prelaod insert was fine.  My current goal is to have the body ready for paint by the end of the month. I'm installing 97+ doors,fenders, and front clip. When it gets back from paint I will install the interior and finish the rest of the engine bay work. I will probably be building the axles and rebuilding the t-case in November.

Iv'e been taking pics so I should probably start a build thread. Thanks for all the help!

[WahooSteeler]

Page 2 of the thread, near the end. VW retaining clips sourced by Gjeep when he did his Teraflex kit. 

 

Link to parts: https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/81604/Parking-Brake-Retaining-Clip-1H0609747/

 

Link to thread: 

 

 

 

 

[EUREKA]

Thanks for digging up that info!

[JIMMYRIG]

On 4/15/2011 at 10:15 AM, HOrnbrod said:

While the D35 c-clip axle does not require them when converting to disk brakes, the D44 (and non-c-clip D35) require the use of machined spacers to load the bearing seals so they will seat properly.

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3274/2852726654_b076514b7d.jpg?v=0

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2852684206_54c704f827.jpg?v=0

 

Instead of getting them fabbed, you can call Teraflex and get them for $6.95/ea + shipping. That's all I needed when I swapped over the disks from the D35 c-clip to the D44.

I had attempted the zj swap on my non c clip 35 before and ran in to play in the axle shafts. Where does this part sit on the shaft? I’m hoping I don’t have to pull bearings off again