Axle HELP!!!Comanche HELP!!!

[cjgolfer7]

Hi I'm new to the Comanche world and this site and I love it. I bought a 1988 Comanche Pioneer with "77K original" miles about a month ago. I bought the jeep site unseen for the price knowing it came from Kure Beach where it sat under a carport for 15 years. I knew the radiator had to be replaced as well as some issues with the brakes. Well turns out that the undercarriage is pretty rusted... (Axles, drive shafts, suspension, steering) the frame, body, truck bed have no rust which is kind of weird. Needless to say I went out kind of spur of the moment and bought a 95 Cherokee rolling chassis. With the intentions on swapping everything out reusing all the steering and suspension and axles. The front is a D30 and the rear is a Crysler 8.25...not sure what the gears are. Now imp thinking of beefing up the suspension a little bit with a rough country 3" and some stronger front arms from ironman4x4. My questions are is this a complete direct swap?..Do I really need to use the rear sway bar? I have the front driveshaft from the Cherokee as well as the transfer case because I can not get the one that came with it to go in to four-wheel. So I was going to pull it and swap the 21 spine input shaft in replacement for the 23 spine in the newer 231 out of the Cherokee and get a new rear driveshaft. Are the leaf springs the same from the Cherokee to the Comanche? I wanted to do this all myself and as cheap as possible but also wanted to make it a DD/mild work truck/off road machine... so don't really want to skimp out. Any suggestions on the swap or good used or new steering and suspension components and axles stuff...Anything would help as I am a huge jeep enthusiast but a beginner at all the mechanics.. Although I have my father help I out who was an air force mechanic for a while back...Still would love any and all info anyone would like to give. Thanks

[Dirteatr717]

The leafs are shorter and flatter on a Cherokee and the perches are closer together so you would need manche leafs and have to weld on new perches on the 8.25... If the Cherokee is auto it's most likely 3.55s ... Also take a look under the rear of the manche, there's no rear swaybar :yes:

[jimmy21669]

Well turns out that the undercarriage is pretty rusted... (Axles, drive shafts, suspension, steering) the frame, body, truck bed have no rust which is kind of weird.

 

This is actually common for a vehicle stored for that long in a non-climate controlled storage space. It is from condensation from the concrete that seeps up onto the suspension parts. Also, often you will start to see some engine problems (hope you don't) from engine seals and what not becoming brittle from non use, as well as hydraulic components (trust me, I bought a similar MJ with 79K miles). Just some things to look out fro from a stored vehicle.

 

The important part is that the frame and body are rust free...the rest can be restored/replaced easily.

 

Welcome and good find.

[kyleag89]

Your MJ rear drive shaft will work with the newer transfer case. I installed a 96 NP231 into my 89 MJ with AW4 and used my same DS.

[maddzz1]

It might not be a problem with the transfer case thats causing it to not go into 4WD. My guess is the vacuum lines for the CAD are bad. You should shim the shift fork over first and see if that fixes the problem. here's the link:

 

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18415&hilit=cad

[cjgolfer7]

Also take a look under the rear of the manche, there's no rear swaybar :yes:

 

I knew there wasn't one on the manche, just didnt really know if it was really needed if I decided to go with the 8.25 because i had it laying around. I might want to find a ford 8.8 or a 44.

[Incommando]

Rough Country is a documented crappy company & their springs put the "rough" in rough country. I really regret buying their lift. I would look at motion off road or something

[cjgolfer7]

roger the crappy rough country..thanks ill take a look...i imagine that the front of the manche is darn near the same as a cheroke..I found some rear leafs from rustys that say they are 4" which is probably boarder line for sye or something for my driveline not to give me the death wooble but idk...was just thinking maybe could use those rear leafs cause mine really need to be replaced and maybe 4.5" coils or something higher to make for a more even look..Not sure anyone have anymore suggestions.

[Pete M]

SYEs are not needed on MJs until you hit maybe 8". and even then it's due to needing the strength upgrade rather than an angularity issue. We have a much longer wheelbase than XJs and TJs and so our driveshaft angles are much less severe. :thumbsup:

 

We have 2 members here that have had Rustys leaf fail on them. Hellcreek would be a better option.

 

rough riding lifts are typically due to cheap shocks and/or stiff coils. be sure to do your research and you should be able to avoid both. It's usually less of a "this lift sucks" and more of a philosophical difference with how a lift should be (plus an added variable in that cheap lifts will typically have cheap shocks because, well, otherwise the lift wouldn't be cheap anymore). Lift companies with a history of parts failures or horrible customer service should generally be avoided.

 

don't forget the laundry list of parts that go with those 4.5" coils. :cheers:

[mnkyboy]

Problem with the roughcountry 4.5" lift is its $459. At that price its a great value for what you get but at the same time at that price you can't expect too much from it.

 

A quality 4.5" lift kit is usually $800-$900 so I can't under stand how a person can buy the rc lift then complain about it riding bad or not performing well. You get what you pay for and for being under $500 I think rc did a pretty good job.

 

I have to agree with Pete on Hellcreek for springs,never heard anything bad and he's a great guy to do business with. On top of that he gives us a discount.

[Garvin]

We have 2 members here that have had Rustys leaf fail on them. Hellcreek would be a better option.

 

Just putting my two cents in on that part.

 

I ran an 8" LA lift from Rusty's for 3 or 4 years on my old Cherokee and the springs held up great. I beat the crap out of my XJ, too. The only issue I've ever had was the bushings going bad after about 3 years, but that was due to the mud and abuse. I ended up hitting an F350 with my XJ in the front and totaled the Jeep. When I removed the leaf springs, there was still nothing wrong with them (I hit hard enough where it ripped every D30 axle mount atleast half way off, pushed my driver side tire back about 4 inches, and ripped the crossmember to pieces due to it being a LA system).

 

I personally love Rusty's lifts, and especially love their front coil springs (moved them over to the Comanche). OME, BDS, and Rusty's are the only leaf springs I would really go with if I were to replace the rear ones in my Comanche (currently stock springs, SOA and will have 2" shackles to level her out).

 

The Rusty's control arms flexed great, but this time around I want to go with the TnT kit because the control arms are tucked up farther with a longer belly pan.

 

Now that that little rant is over...I would stay far away from RC. They make great kits for the price, but you get what you pay for. I have had a lot of buddies replace the bushings in those control arms within 6 months of getting them, and they didn't abuse their Jeeps anywhere near the amount I did. Not to mention they ride rough and don't flex all that well due to the stiff springs.

[mnkyboy]

I went from ome coils to rc coils and didn't notice much difference in ride.

 

I also think the rc coils flex better then people give them credit for.

 

 

[jpnjim]

These are my 3" Rusty's coils up front (on stock TJ 30" tires):

 

Gained just under 2" compared to the stock, 2wd ft coils, and leveled the front with the stock rear 2wd leafs.

 

 

I bought the coils new 8-9 years ago, but only ran them for a few months, and 4 trail runs before they sagged and bent.

 

They've been tucked away since then, now they make perfect 'leveling springs' for this 2wd MJ. :dunno:

 

 

As for the original post,

newp, rear XJ leafs won't work,

the rear sway bar doesn't bolt on either.

You can use the XJ rear axle if you flip/move the perches, and cut off the shock mounts.

 

The 3" RC coils aren't bad,

if you need to, make a bastard leaf pack with junkyard leafs mingled with your stock MJ's, and/or longer shackles to get the rear ride height you want.

 

Be careful swapping a used 21sp input into a used 23sp t-case (if that's what you intend to do),

at some point they changed the cut of input gears,

if you use different generations of gears/planetaries/sun gear you WILL get a horrible 'rocks in your transfer case' sound.

 

I'd tell you that "XX year, and XX year interchange", but I had a problem with a mismatch 10-12 years ago, and the years of parts I was using were supposed to be of the same generation, and were not. :(

[mvusse]

These are my 3" Rusty's coils up front (on stock TJ 30" tires):

 

My buddy had a TJ, and the stock tires on it were 205/75R15, which are 27" tires. After they went bald he moved up to 235/75R15 which is 29"/

 

I bought the coils new 8-9 years ago, but only ran them for a few months, and 4 trail runs before they sagged and bent.

 

Rusty's does not make their own coil springs, they are made for them by another manufacturer. Despite all the bad experiences I;ve heard of, this is the first one I've heard about problems with their coil springs.

 

I'd tell you that "XX year, and XX year interchange", but I had a problem with a mismatch 10-12 years ago, and the years of parts I was using were supposed to be of the same generation, and were not. :(

 

That's a Jeep thing. You might know what parts are "supposed" to be on it, but even from the factory, you can never be sure unless you check for yourself.

[jpnjim]

These are my 3" Rusty's coils up front (on stock TJ 30" tires):

 

My buddy had a TJ, and the stock tires on it were 205/75R15, which are 27" tires. After they went bald he moved up to 235/75R15 which is 29"/

 

These are stock 30"x9.50"x15 TJ tires & wheels, directly off a TJ with the "30 inch tire and wheel package".

I pointed out the size, so anyone looking at the pic could better judge the lift (or lack of).

 

I bought the coils new 8-9 years ago, but only ran them for a few months, and 4 trail runs before they sagged and bent.

 

Rusty's does not make their own coil springs, they are made for them by another manufacturer. Despite all the bad experiences I;ve heard of, this is the first one I've heard about problems with their coil springs.

 

 

Lots of guys were having problems with Rusty's 3" coils around this time (2002),

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/sh ... p?t=105367

 

The competition's 3" coils (RE) typically gave 3.50"-4.00", which probably added to Rusty's complaints.

 

I initially got 2.75", then after 4 months & 4 total days of wheeling, they were in tough shape, bent & badly sagged.

 

At first I added 2" spacers (total lift of 4.25" with full 2" spacers), then finally replaced them with RE coils.

 

They sat on the bench since then, and now they're perfect, soft, leveling coils for my stock 2wd MJ.

 

 

I'd tell you that "XX year, and XX year interchange", but I had a problem with a mismatch 10-12 years ago, and the years of parts I was using were supposed to be of the same generation, and were not. :(

 

That's a Jeep thing. You might know what parts are "supposed" to be on it, but even from the factory, you can never be sure unless you check for yourself.

 

 

 

I got the whole drivetrain out of a 25k mile 1992 YJ Renagade (4.0L/999/231) <-- engine is in my 88' MJ now.

 

Since the drivetrain was complete, it's mileage so low, and the t-case tagged & date stamped correctly,

I had no reason to believe the T-case was anything but a 1992 NP231 (23spline input).

 

I also had a complete 1989 YJ (recovered stolen Jeep) in my backyard with a broken case 21 spline NP231 (also complete & tagged correctly).

 

1989 & 1992 inputs should have been interchangeable, according to what little info was available back then (1998).

I put the 89' 21sp input into the 92' t-case, and wow the noise was loud, constant, and never ending. :(

 

I did other drivetrain mods at the same time (cut a 2wd Peugeot's output shaft down to let the 231 bolt up to it),

so it took a lot of noisy daily driving to finally figure out exactly where the horrible noise was coming from, and fix the problem.

 

Just hoping to save someone else from pulling their hair out :wall: