Motion offroad bolt on SOA opinions

[Hick]

I'm starting to look into parts for my lift. I have a 2wd base 87 Comanche with the I4 4spd. For the rear i was looking at the Motion Offroad bolt on SOA kit http://motionoffroad.com/catalog/index. ... ucts_id=65 Is this any good? or should i use new leafs and keep my SUA setup. Also, What all would be required up front for a SOA lift? :typing:

[xjrev10]

Longer control arms, coils, shocks, brake lines.... Everything in front for a 5.5 lift i do believe.

[mkbruin]

Go SOA, but forget the bolt-on stuff.

 

Its really not hard to burn on new perches and do it right.

[JeepcoMJ]

the bolt-on SOA doesn't allow for any pinion angle adjustment to get it set where it should be. it's bolt on, so there's more parts involved, which makes it more likely to fail.

 

 

I don't know about you, but I don't want that many bolts in a 5" square that hold my axle to the truck. too much crap to break.

[Motion Offroad]

Just to clear up a few things...

 

The pinion angle is built into the kit and requires no additional parts (shims) to get the pinion angle correct. We sell 2 kits (1 for the D35 and 1 for the D44). The kit "keys" into the factory mounts; so you can't mess up the pinion angle at all. We've set the pinion angle for each axle based on a 6" rear lift.

 

We do not offer a kit for the AMC20 as that axle has the top sides of the factory perches boxed off; thus not allowing our kit to "key" into it correctly.

 

It requires no "additional" bolts than a normal (welded on perch) SOA swap does. Additionally it allows you to run your factory lower shock mounts in their stock location; thus allowing you to run a longer travel shock and not requiring you to buy any additional shock mounts. It is no more parts than going with a traditional SOA setup (2 perches, 2 upper plates, and bolts).

 

We've heard comments that it can "twist" or "move" under a load. This is not true as the kit "keys" into the factory mounts and there is absolutely no movement once the kit is bolted down.

 

We have wheeled our MJ on 35 & 37" tires for over 4 years with this kit without a single issue. Yes we agree that a weld-on perch may be cheaper/easier for some; however we wanted to offer a 100% bolt-on solution for our lift kits. Not everyone has access to a welder, and for many of our customers they want an easy-bolt on solution for going SOA on the MJ's. With tons of these kits sold over the past 4 years we have to date NEVER received a call/email/complaint about the kit not meeting the expectations of our customers. I'd even venture to say that our bolt-on kit is STRONGER than any traditional weld-on SOA setup.

[JeepcoMJ]

i'd venture to say that you're not right about the stronger part.

 

I can understand everything else, but you can't honestly say that the pinion angle is adjusted properly. pinion angle needs to be set specifically to the system that that vehicle is running. I don't see you offering different bolt-on kits for different leaf packs (2x4 is lowest, 4x4 mid, m/t highest), different wheel base, and different engine and transmission options.

 

 

while I understand that it's impossible for a VENDOR to acquire one part with that many different specs from the company that manufactures them, I would think you'd not have the gall to offer it as "fact" that it is properly set up for all mj's.

 

 

above that, why spend over $100 when you can spend $50 to get the parts, and a case of beer to have a local pro welder do the welding, and have it fully spec'd to your vehicle?

[87mjdriver]

some times it is really inconvienent to find a welder to come and weld it on or get the truck to somewhere to weld it. and sometimes you might live in a town that that just doesn't have anyone that does that sorta stuff.

 

to each his own, If i didn't have a friend at work that had a welder I would have done the bolt on job, because I could do everything in one day in my driveway. and then drive it to work the next morning.

 

 

I am not playing sides here just stating that some things are easier for some people to attain then others(welder)

[mkbruin]

I would have done the bolt on job, because I could do everything in one day in my driveway. and then drive it to work the next morning.

 

Not true. With a six inch lift you aren't going anywhere until you've had a new driveshaft made. Mine took three days for to be custom made. Nobody will have same-day turnaround.

 

As for Motion, I can respect ANY vendor that suports a forum and is willing to stand this firmly behind their product. That being said, there are different pinnion angle requirements based on whether you have gone SYE or not. If you don't adhere to the rules, there will be massive driveline vibrations. Your keyed kit cannot compensate for the difference here, or even smaller angle differences such as sagged springs.

 

 

 

SOA lifts, while "easy", open up multiple bags of worms and completely change the game when it comes to forces applied to various components. If yuo are going to go to an SOA setup, take the time to do it correctly. Doing it right includes setting a proper angle, and welding in new perches. Perches are $8/ea. Someone to come weld is also cheap.

 

When it comes to safety on your rig, please don't cut corners. This is for the safety of you and others on the road around you. Do it right.

[JeepcoMJ]

I would have done the bolt on job, because I could do everything in one day in my driveway. and then drive it to work the next morning.

 

Not true. With a six inch lift you aren't going anywhere until you've had a new driveshaft made. Mine took three days for to be custom made. Nobody will have same-day turnaround.

 

As for Motion, I can respect ANY vendor that suports a forum and is willing to stand this firmly behind their product. That being said, there are different pinnion angle requirements based on whether you have gone SYE or not. If you don't adhere to the rules, there will be massive driveline vibrations. Your keyed kit cannot compensate for the difference here, or even smaller angle differences such as sagged springs.

 

 

 

SOA lifts, while "easy", open up multiple bags of worms and completely change the game when it comes to forces applied to various components. If yuo are going to go to an SOA setup, take the time to do it correctly. Doing it right includes setting a proper angle, and welding in new perches. Perches are $8/ea. Someone to come weld is also cheap.

 

When it comes to safety on your rig, please don't cut corners. This is for the safety of you and others on the road around you. Do it right.

 

 

 

actually, I have to disagree with only 1 thing.

 

a comanche has a long enough wheel base to not alter the geometry of the driveshaft too much at 6.5" of lift. the only real issue is driveshaft length, and I've made do with a stock one all the way up to 6.5".

 

you won't need a double cardan on your driveshaft on a comanche. on a cherokee, yes, you do at those heights.

 

that said, proper pinion angle is necessary to reduce chances of driveline vibration

[mkbruin]

I also ran slip-yoke at 6.5.

 

I also started with a factory rear driveshaft. Driving down I25 at 65mph I hit a gentle riser, the rear lifted enough for the factory DS to come out of the transfercase. Needless to say, when it hit the ground (at 65mph) it instantly grenaged the rear axle.

 

There had been maybe 1/4inch of threaded yoke contact. This is dangerous, and I was extremely fortunate to get off the highway without an accident.

 

I had a brand new shaft custom built at a local drag racing shop (at least twice as thick as stock... it was BEEFY) for $100.

 

Again, goes to my point of doing it right for the safety of yourself and others around you.

 

 

 

As to driveshat angle, if the rig has a CV the pinion needs to point directly at the t-case. If still running slip-yoke, pinion needs to be parallel to the t-case output. You may not feel the vibes, but they are there and will eat bearings/seals/etc. With a bolt on, 'keyed' solution, you cannot properly account for these angles.

[mnkyboy]

Bolt on SOA works fine,I haven't had a single problem with mine.

 

I can't see how welded perches and Ubolts are gonna be any stronger,the bolt on stuff is pretty stout.

 

I figure once I get a d44 I'm gonna open up the perches up to fit the d44 then at that point I will weld them on. I kind of like them being bolt on with my d35 because if/when I break it I can un bolt them and move them to another axle.

 

As far as the motion offroad SOA,I would pass. It looks like a copy of the RRO kit but twice the price.

[JeepcoMJ]

Bolt on SOA works fine,I haven't had a single problem with mine.

 

I can't see how welded perches and Ubolts are gonna be any stronger,the bolt on stuff is pretty stout.

 

I figure once I get a d44 I'm gonna open up the perches up to fit the d44 then at that point I will weld them on. I kind of like them being bolt on with my d35 because if/when I break it I can un bolt them and move them to another axle.

 

As far as the motion offroad SOA,I would pass. It looks like a copy of the RRO kit but twice the price.

 

 

it probably IS the RRO kit.

 

 

anyways. it's not as strong because it's 1 more thing between the axle and the lift spring that is mobile. i.e. it's not permanently attached to something, making it more likely to shift/move.

[knever3]

I know I don't have room to talk but for Motion they can't make a "Custom" bolt on kit for all situations. Would you rather have a slight pinion angle problem or a sloppy rear end that's not "keyed in" like they mention. I agree if all things were to be perfect welded is the way to go and a custom driveshaft made up. With these old trucks and how people use them if you're not cruising on the highway all day with respect to vibration slow wheeling won't cause vibs. Take it for what it's worth, buy it or not, thankfully someone offers options we normally won't have. There will always be critics and that's why this forum is so helpful, making educated decisions based on others experience, and I respect that.

[mnkyboy]

Jeepco I see what your saying but I don't think it makes it any weaker,the brackets are captured in there pretty good you would rip your leaf springs off before the soa brackets came apart.

 

the bolt in kit uses 4 large bolts ,I don't remember what size they are but the are huge compared to the standard u bolts found at parts store which most people use when doing a soa. You would be more likely to break a u bolt and lose an axle then break enough of the bolts to lose an axle.

 

I know there are cons to bolt in soa, like price and the use of the factory shock mounts hurting ground clearance but I wouldn't worry about strength. You would be fine with either set up.

 

Knever as far as I know all bolt on soa kits are keyed into the stock perches. Also I have a bolt on soa and I have no vibes at any speed