smithe1811 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 So a couple of months ago i hit a GIANT pothole with my front right, now just a few weeks ago i have a clacking sound coming from there, it happens twice per wheel rotation and one clack is louder than the other and it gets faster when i speed up. i finally had time to take a peek today and apparently i need some weird size allen key to remove the caliper so i wasn't ably to take the disc off to get a good look, but with the wheel off, id i spin the axle, i can hear the noise, it sounds like its coming from inside or behind the disc. from what i could see, there was nothing unusual. any ideas? it got a little louder over a few days and now has stayed the same. i don't have any pulling or death wobble or anything and i can only hear it in the cab if i have the passenger window down and I'm driving next to something to bounce the noise back. thanks Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kro10000 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I believe the allen key needed is a 7mm, have you checked the wheel u-joint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithe1811 Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share Posted June 25, 2010 all i could do was visually check it, there was no play in it and it wasn't moving unusually, the sound was coming from farther outboard than the u-joint though. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kro10000 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Id probably suspect the wheel bearing then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I believe the allen key needed is a 7mm, have you checked the wheel u-joint? 7mm!? Sorry bit of a tangent here Smithe. What's the deal with the nut & bolt sizes on these trucks? Every time I start spannering I need a different socket & wrench set! One day it's Imperial the next it's Metric! :huh???: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kastein Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Yep, they do that... the real fun one is when they're mixed! Pretty sure some of the bellhousing bolts are metric and I know the top two are SAE. Of course, only the threads are SAE... because they threw a real curveball and used an external torx head on them! :dunno: :smart: :ack: I'd bet on the wheel bearing or something rattling around behind the rotor / wheel bearing but in front of the brake dust shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithe1811 Posted July 4, 2010 Author Share Posted July 4, 2010 ok, so i found out where the sound is coming from and took a video of it. can someone tell me exactly whats broken/loose and how to fix it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-600JeepMJ Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Bad axle U joint :typing: http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/te ... dSeals.htm http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/axle/ujoint/ http://www.delta4x4club.com/TECH/UNIVERSAL/UJOINTS.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 :eek: Looks to me like both a bad axle u-joint and a bad spindle bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithe1811 Posted July 4, 2010 Author Share Posted July 4, 2010 so, the easiest and cheapest fix would be to replace the whole axle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 so, the easiest and cheapest fix would be to replace the whole axle? No, just the defective parts. Replacing the whole shebang is a bit of overkill.......neither easier nor cheaper. Besides, taking things apart and reassembling is an education in itself. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 I just did front U-joints on my '89 last Sunday. Course.......while I was at it......I also replace the rotors, calipers, new soft lines and pads.......and of course the broken off Hard line :roll: Oh, and rotated the tires too......and checked the rear shoes......and bleed the entire brake system. Start to finish was >7 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 :eek: Looks to me like both a bad axle u-joint and a bad spindle bearing. Considering it's a 4 wheel drive axle that doesn't have a spindle, that's a stretch ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithe1811 Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 ok, so I'm just looking at a u-joint then, right? :dunce: :mad: DANG PA POTHOLES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 :eek: Looks to me like both a bad axle u-joint and a bad spindle bearing. Considering it's a 4 wheel drive axle that doesn't have a spindle, that's a stretch ... Okay, Eagle.........I only went by the FSM labeling and narratives on the D30 front axle, which refers to the bearings of the D44 and D30 axles as spindle bearings, or wheel bearings or simply inner and outer bearings. It also refers to the outer yoke on the axle U-joint as the "spindle yoke." So shoot me. But actually, I was looking at it wrong (backwards). On second view, I see that the video is shot looking across the hub, toward the differential. So Eagle, considering the amount of play in the intermediate axle in the axle tube, does smithe1811 need just a U-joint as your remark has led him to believe? It doesn't seem right that the axle would move in the tube like that, and the only thing that I think of that centers the axle in the tube is the right side axle shaft pilot bushing. It seems even possible that he's broken the intermediate shaft on the right side. Now, do you want to just correct me, or would you like to say something that would be helpful to smithe1811? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 ok, so I'm just looking at a u-joint then, right? :dunce: :mad: DANG PA POTHOLES! Correct :D From your video is just shows that the U-joint has play and needs replacing. I just pointed out what I did, as I'm one to take the wheel and bearing hub off, and get every thing done in one shot :brows: Saves time down the road for future repairs/replacements. Plus, my brake pads were just about done, and inspection is due. You can just pull the bearing hub and axle as one, and work on the U-joint. You don't need to get the spindle nut off that way. I wouldn't blame it on pot holes, we have bigger and many more up this way :headpop: It's more than likely from moister getting inside the bearing and killing the U-joint :( Make sure you replace the U's with grease-able ones, and grease them on a regulator basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWLONGSHOT Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 :eek: Looks to me like both a bad axle u-joint and a bad spindle bearing. Considering it's a 4 wheel drive axle that doesn't have a spindle, that's a stretch ... Okay, Eagle.........I only went by the FSM labeling and narratives on the D30 front axle, which refers to the bearings of the D44 and D30 axles as spindle bearings, or wheel bearings or simply inner and outer bearings. It also refers to the outer yoke on the axle U-joint as the "spindle yoke." So shoot me. But actually, I was looking at it wrong (backwards). On second view, I see that the video is shot looking across the hub, toward the differential. So Eagle, considering the amount of play in the intermediate axle in the axle tube, does smithe1811 need just a U-joint as your remark has led him to believe? It doesn't seem right that the axle would move in the tube like that, and the only thing that I think of that centers the axle in the tube is the right side axle shaft pilot bushing. It seems even possible that he's broken the intermediate shaft on the right side. Now, do you want to just correct me, or would you like to say something that would be helpful to smithe1811? Easy now fella... ;) Eagle is correct in his terminology. Not all of us on here are teens and twenty somethings. Some of us "older" members do our best to educate with correct terminology and common miss-information that surrounds our sport. So you could say he could have worded his response differently. But the fact remains he is correct in the statement. I am certain his what not a snipe at you or smithe1811. Now, spindles are the shaft that the bearings ride on. Common in trailer axles, full floating 4WD axles and 2WD vehicles. The D30 and D44's in MJ,XJ and TJ Ruby's do not have this style of spindles. REGARDLESS of what the FSM says. They use Unitized bearings. Commonly referred to as unit bearings. Sure, inside the sealed unit there IS a spindle of sorts. But as its not a serviceable or repairable part its not something you could or would work on. When its found bad, its replaced as a complete unit. I don't or cannot visualize what your saying in your explanation. But it is certainly possible what I think you are describing. Broken shaft or bad U Joints are not uncommon. This should be something all of us should be familiar with. Its not a difficult project. If nothing else, those joints have lasted 20something years.. .just replace them because you are there. My suggestion is to pull the unit bearing and shaft and see whats happening in there... CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 :agree: Eagle has corrected me on the "Correct" terminology many times :D And being over a couple of hills myself........ :roll: .......I try so that we're all on the same page :yes: What I read under Harper's post, was he was thinking that the right axle shaft is "broken" off the interment shaft, I don't think he considered that the "older" D30, like smithe1811 '88 MJ has the CAD on that axle, making the right outer shaft free. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithe1811 Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 Well, i certainly appreciate all of the info as usual from here and i will get this fixed and hopefully be able to contribute in the future of someone else has a similar problem. and as far as blaming the potholes here in PA, it was one specific pothole that i hit doing about 15mph and it almost stopped my truck, after that is when i noticed the noise. the ujount may have been worn before hand, but i think thats what put it over the edge.......plus i can go back and yell at the hole and not look as crazy as yelling at the rain :nuts: Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Okay.....CWLongshot and Wildman......and you too, Eagle. My apologies if I overreacted to what I considered a rather snide way of correcting what was seen as incorrect terminology. As I said, the FSM uses the same terminology. I know what a spindle is, but as I said the FSM even refers to the component outside the front axle U-joints as spindles. But far be it from me to want to confuse anybody. So let's put that behind us. Look at the video. Wildman, I, too, have a CAD on my axle. The intermediate axle is separate from the main axle that goes from the differential to the shift motor. The intermediate shft has two parts, separated by a U-joint. The inner part of this intermediate axle is centered in the tube by the main axle shaft that is itself centered by a bushing (don't get on me with terminology here, the FSM refers to it as a bushing in some places, and as a bearing in others, I've not had reason to tear mine down in this area, so I've not seen it). This bushing(bearing) is inboard of the CAD. The movement of the axle relative to the axle housing appears to me to be a problem, either with the bushing(bearing) or a broken inner portion of the intermediate axle shaft (that shaft which is outboard of the CAD). So my whole point all along has been that I think smithe1811 has more than just a U-joint problem to address here. If the three of you think that the movement that I'm refering to is acceptable, then fine. Let smithe1811 just repair the U-joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I never like to kick a guy when he's down, but I DO think it's important in a group like this to disseminate accurate information, and to correct errors when we see them. I have the MJ FSM open to Section 'G' right now. And there is nothing in the service description or procedures for the 4WD front axle that refers to a spindle. If you are looking at the exploded view on page G-108, that's for the 2WD axle ("Type 2"), which uses a conventional spindle rather than a unitized hub/bearing assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I never like to kick a guy when he's down, but I DO think it's important in a group like this to disseminate accurate information, and to correct errors when we see them. I have the MJ FSM open to Section 'G' right now. And there is nothing in the service description or procedures for the 4WD front axle that refers to a spindle. If you are looking at the exploded view on page G-108, that's for the 2WD axle ("Type 2"), which uses a conventional spindle rather than a unitized hub/bearing assembly. Kick all you want, bud....you and I have different FSMs. Mine doesn't have lettered sections, the sections are numbered 1-25, so if I were to refer you to say section 2 (FRONT SUSPENSION) pg 2-15, fig 7 "Hub and tapered roller bearings (4WD)", you wouldn't be any more impressed than I am. None of you seem to care about helping smithe1811 with his problem. So, all things considered, you obviously don't care for my input, and I don't particularly need yours ... so long y'all......good luck, Erik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORDENCOMANCHE Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 PMS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 None of you seem to care about helping smithe1811 with his problem. I must have missed something ... I thought we had smith1811's problem all diagnosed. He needs a U-joint. The only complication might be if the ears are too beat up for the new u-joint to go in and stay in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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