ocskipper Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I know this topic has been discussed plenty and I HAVE read previous posts but I wanted some advice. I bought a 96 cherokee with a 3" rancho lift on it with a pre-existing death wobble. Super clean truck for 1200 because the p.o had no idea what the shaking was :) I had a rocky road adj. tb left over from my manche that I threw on last night to replace stock and it was too long by about a 1/4 inch. I had to jack the suspension up to get it in :roll: big no no? Anyways, the death wobble continued after the install same as before... starts at about 55 mph and stops when I get it down to around 45. I checked the holes for the tb and everything else attached to the front axle without any major red flags. It all looks 13 years old but nothing completely shot out. My tires are completely worn unevenly and bald, outside of tires worn more, so I thought it might be an alignment, balance, toe in, axle camber issue more than anything. I am adding a 2" spacer to the front today and replacing the sway bar mounts and bushings then i was just going to take it in for new tires and an alignment. I guess my question is can this "death wobble" *explative* bee caused and solved by tires and alignment alone? It is a very violent shake but only happens at highway speeds. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComancheKid45 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Yes bad tires have been known to cause shimmy/vibration issues in many cases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Causes as listed by Genovast from a thread on the first page. Wheel balanceWheel bearings Ball joints U-joints Trackbar bushing or TRE Steering TREs Control Arm Bushings Control Arm themselves Very bad toe alignment Bad tires(not necessarily unbalance) from a horrible toe in alignment I've even seen out of balance front driveshafts on NON-CAD axles cause a bit of shaking. Many reasons can cause this. Look into all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocskipper Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 ok, i guess it will be trial and error. what about the track bar install and it being a little bit too long? is that a big problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 If your tires are really that bad, and nothing else looks visibly shot, that's where I would start. How are they worn? Is it much worse on the outside of the tire than the inside? That would indicated a bad toe in, which is what would happen if someone did a lift and didn't do a toe alignment. I speak from experience. I now know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocskipper Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 If your tires are really that bad, and nothing else looks visibly shot, that's where I would start. How are they worn? Is it much worse on the outside of the tire than the inside? That would indicated a bad toe in, which is what would happen if someone did a lift and didn't do a toe alignment. I speak from experience. I now know better. They are indeed worn much more on the outside. I just don't know how long ago the wobble started or when the p.o put the lift on. I have a feeling it drove fine for a whiole and then progressively got worse. I guess we will see tomorrow if that fixes her up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88mjmanche Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 my tires are not balanced and that causes my death wobble also maybe a bad rim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocskipper Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 ok, i guess it will be trial and error. what about the track bar install and it being a little bit too long? is that a big problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 You said it was adjustable... I'm assuming you've got it adjusted to its shortest length? It might cause some problems, but I don't think it'd cause DW unless it put the axle so far to the side that you could visibly see it just by looking at the truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocskipper Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 oh ya, and when i installed the track bar my steering wheel is off center when I am driving straight. How do I fix that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Track bar 1/4 too long will shift the axle over not quite 1/4" too far to the passenger side. Alignment will center steering wheel. You adjust the length of the drag link for that. Adjusting the length of the tie rod adjusts toe. Caster angle is adjusted by shims behind lower control arms, or adjustable/non stock length control arms. There is no way to adjust caster without also affecting pinon angle, and to a degree camber. Camber is not adjustable. With a lift, and stock spec. caster, your pinion angle will be off. Correct pinion angle will throw the caster way off. You're going to have to find a happy median yourself. Toe in should be 0". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Anyways, the death wobble continued after the install same as before... starts at about 55 mph and stops when I get it down to around 45. You don't have death wobble. If it goes away by the time you slow to 45, it isn't death wobble. Once death wobble sets in, you basically have to come to a complete stop to end it. This shake you have -- can you drive the vehicle while it shakes? With death wobble, it feels like a demented djini has grabbed the front of your vehicle and is trying to fling it off the road. You can't control the vehicle, all you can do is slam on the brakes and hope you can stop it before you die. That's why it's called "death wobble" -- because when it shows up, you KNOW you are going to die. I think your tires need to be balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocskipper Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 I most deffinitley cannot drive it while it is shaking, the truck feels like it is going to come apart...however it does go away at lower speeds and is perfectly driveable. I am leaning towards alignment/tire issue as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I thought I'd experienced DW in my first Cherokees until the trackbar on my 2.5 MJ decided to fall out of the frame bracket at 70 mph. That was not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I thought I'd experienced DW in my first Cherokees until the trackbar on my 2.5 MJ decided to fall out of the frame bracket at 70 mph. YIKE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Yeah, happened 200 miles from home too. Luckily when I travel that far I carry a fair amount of tools with me. So a bit of trivia is the nut for the steering stabilizer into the draglink is the same size and thread for the TB. Popped that onto the Trackbar and limped it the next exit which was about 1/8 of a mile away and had a huge hardware store right off the exit. They didn't have castle nuts, but I got two regular ones and double nuted the TB, and it's still like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocskipper Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 So I installed the 2" spacers with some brand new 30" all terrains along with new bushing and sway bar relocation mounts and the severe wobble went away. I can now drive safely at highway speeds with only slight vibrations and a little play in the steering wheel. The next step is an alignment which I hope will tighten everything up. Will most shops center my steering wheel with an alignment? like i said it is like a quarter turn off center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallisek Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 They should re-center the wheel since it is easy enough. If they don't you can re-center yourself using by loosening the two bolts on the turnbuckle. They are 15mm if I recall correctly. Rotate the buckle until the wheel is centered and then tighten bolts. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocskipper Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 They should re-center the wheel since it is easy enough. If they don't you can re-center yourself using by loosening the two bolts on the turnbuckle. They are 15mm if I recall correctly. Rotate the buckle until the wheel is centered and then tighten bolts. Done. turnbuckle? where and what is that? Also, for LCA's...what would be a good recommendation (cheap :yes: ) I have the 3" rancho lift with an added 2" spacer in the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 They should re-center the wheel since it is easy enough. If they don't you can re-center yourself using by loosening the two bolts on the turnbuckle. They are 15mm if I recall correctly. Rotate the buckle until the wheel is centered and then tighten bolts. Done. turnbuckle? where and what is that?. The sleeve on the draglink. The draglink is the bar from the pitman arm (on the steering box) that runs diagonally downward to the opposite side of the vehicle and connects to the right side steering knuckle. On the upper end, near the steering box, there is a sleeve about 3" long with a clamp around each end. Loosen the clamps and turn the sleeve. This adjusts the length of the drag link to center the steering wheel. Do it when the ROAD wheels are pointed straight and the steering wheel is not locked, and you can just turn the sleeve until the steering wheel is straight. Note that if the drag link has not been adjusted in a long while, it may require large amounts of PB Blaster before you can turn it. There's a special tool for the purpose, but a pipe wrench can be used (and may be necessary if it's really rusted solid). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocskipper Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Sounds easy enough. Thanks Eagle. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oizarod115 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I thought I'd experienced DW in my first Cherokees until the trackbar on my 2.5 MJ decided to fall out of the frame bracket at 70 mph. YIKE!!!! oddly enough, the trackbar fell out of my MJ at 55 with no warnin or wobbles... i simply couldn't turn as far as your wobble, the trackbar being off 1/4" doesn't seem like a big deal considering you can run 2-3 inches of lift without changing it at all. get back to us after the alignment and balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWLONGSHOT Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Image Not Found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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