Oizarod115 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 recently read an article in a 4wheel magazine about lifting YJs... bear with me here. they went into all the body lifts and why not and blocks and then they did spring-over... and said this causes bad spring-wrap... anyone had trouble with saggy-@$$-ends after spring-over? or axle wrap issues at all? i figured with the longer leaf springs of a MJ it would be worse than a YJ... kind-of SOA apprehensive. someone tell me the truth here. -nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 SOA's do cause spring wrap :brows: It is all about how much you get. I have wrap with my Alcan springs, but it is not what I would call bad. It only really happens with me, when I am using the skinny pedal, and loosing traction. I am going to pul a leaf out of my Packs o increase flex, and when I do this, I will also build anti-wrap bar, using YJ bushings and a hiem/Johnny Joint. The ways to combat spring wrap.. Use longer spring perches, build anti-wrap bar, Don't hammer down on your rig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOMJ87 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I have a SOA and stock springs and i don't have any trouble with mine as far as wheel hop or to bad of spring wrap but i have a 4-bamger so the torque on the axle is less than in a 4.0. My nieghbor just done a SOA on his YJ and he can't even wheel because the axle wrap is so bad and it cause the worst wheelhop ive ever seen. :eek: Just don't slam on the gas on take off or dump the clutch and it shouldnt be a issue IMO. Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I had zero(ish) wrap with a SOA with stock packs plus an extra main leaf. That was without spring clamps too. Oh, and a 4.0. Blocks will quickly cause wrap issues though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Blocks are evil. I also haven't had any issues with spring-wrap after going spring-over with an extra main leaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty Hunter Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I've got stock springs and SOA w/4.0L and haven't noticed any spring wrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandysMJ Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Same as Bounty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oizarod115 Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 SHEW! (wipes forehead) tim had me scared there. new leafs increase lift price A TON! SOA it is... i have to make new perches anywasy as my new 44 is from a XJ maybe ill lengthen them some.. but then id be sacrificing flex too. so idk. we'll deal with that when i get there thanks for the quick response. -nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jage Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 New isn't always better. I put Rusty's 6" springs in the back of my XJ and they wrapped like taffy the first time I wheeled it. I wasn't even hitting it, and by the drive home I had a hell of a vibration. When I crawled under it, the springs were totally bent like I'd been pounding on it with a 460 at the strip for years. I took the springs to Warner Spring in town and they rearched them and put a 1" thick dump-truck spring perch under the leaves, covered about 3/4 of the next leaf, a little more than 1/2 the pack. By the time I took 'em off last year the ends had wrapped over the dump-truck leaf. Luckily not enough to cause vibes, but it was still a waste of money. I gave them away about a month ago. Oh, and when the Warner Spring guy gave me back my XJ he said "I went to rearch them and those are the cheapest softest springs I've ever seen." I wish he'd recommended not putting them back on my truck before he'd finished re-arching them. Somehow I doubt your stock springs, or most stuff you get aftermarket, is going to be that cheap of material. But you can always have them rearched and add something if wrap becomes a problem you need to prevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanchedude Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I did a SOA five months ago and have no issues at all Used the factory springs "As Is" and the Rocky Road perches They work very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I must be doing something different... I had spring wrap with my stock junk, and have a lil when I get on Pong now :nuts: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Mine wrapped like a mother when it was stock. Well, that was when I actually got enough traction for it to wrap. Gotta love being able to leave rubber through 5 gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heralue Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 When you have done SOA, how about LCA in the front ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jage Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 You mean using a lower control arm as a traction bar to prevent spring wrap? I'd say sure, but there aren't any control arms with leaves so you're custom mounting and at that point the LCA just becomes another rigid member. Because of the short lenght of the LCA relative to, especially MJ springs I'd say it's not a good choice because I'm not sure how you'd attach it to not impead your travel. Really anything that prevents the axle from twisting is viable, although design for offroad probably begs a little more thought than applications on pavement, as clearance is an issue. In fact, commando14 is using shocks for anti-spring wrap http://www.comancheclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=749. I've always been curious how well this works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOMJ87 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 There are many trac bars you can buy or even make for it that are made not to impead travel or just make one. Here is a link to a type that i found of a homemade one for a YJ but you can do the smae concept. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/t.molnar/TractionBar1.htm Hope this helps. Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Cole, That looks like a good design... except that the way he has his setup.. you will hit your t-case at full drop with the shackle, or at least that is how it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yj2mj Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Cole, That looks like a good design... except that the way he has his setup.. you will hit your t-case at full drop with the shackle, or at least that is how it seems. You mean full compression? The shackle would move farther awy from the tc when suspension drops. This is the same setup I have on my YJ, and it has been working well for a few years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jage Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Keep in mind the antiwrap bar is close to the pumpkin, which is the center of the axle. You'd have to fully compress both springs to affect it much, otherwise it's like being close to the pipe in a teeter totter- the closer you are to center the less you go up and down. What's with me and the fat-children analogies today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOMJ87 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Acctually from what i have heard it needs to be on the passenger side to get the best results because of the torque or something. I think that link is the one that metions it if not just search in google and read some of the ones that pop up. Also about the shackle it is on top of the crossmember he made(do not use the stock one it will brake) so at full stuff it does push it towards the t-case and at full drop it pulls away from it and this is the design 75% of the ones ive seen are donr so there souldnt be any prob with it and also thats a YJ so Its shorter than a MJ. IMO don't buy joints from a 4wheel drive place they will brake but if you buy the third arms off of a tractor and remove the hem joints on the ends they are super strong but they rattle and arent greasable but they work great for flex. Just laying down some Opinions from my expreince. Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Cole, That looks like a good design... except that the way he has his setup.. you will hit your t-case at full drop with the shackle, or at least that is how it seems. You mean full compression? The shackle would move farther awy from the tc when suspension drops. This is the same setup I have on my YJ, and it has been working well for a few years now. You are right....What kinda ends did you use at the shackle mount. I am in the design phase of building my antiwrap bar, as I need to remove a leaf or 2 from my Alcans to get them to flex better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOMJ87 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 I have been told that the best joint as far as flex and strength are joints from a third arm for a tractor. They are not greasable and the center piece is to weak to use so they clank. But they work on large tractor and don't brake so they can withstand alot of torque and pressure. Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oizarod115 Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 so do you think i could tie in the rear "frame" crossmember type things under the bed for mounting this? or just weld up a custom Xmember and mount it there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jage Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 When you hit the gas the pinion is going to want to go up, trying to rotate up and over the axle. If your anti-sway bar extends forward the end will lift, if it extends back the end will pull down. Really you're trying to do anything to keep the axle from rotating so it shouldn't matter whether you go forward with the bar or back, or even straight up... except that you have to consider that the axle is moving up, down, forward, back and possibly twisting relative to whatever you're tying it to. As your spring compresses the axle moves towards the back relative to the frame and as it drops the axle moves forward. There is probably slightly more travel compared to the rear mount location, but either way some travel has to be accounted for. And someone mentioned it being on the passenger side because of torque. IIRC the front driver tire tends to lift in drag racing which means the axle is trying to twist the driver's side rear down into the pavement... means the passenger side of the pumpkin is coming up so with a forward bar... ... seems like both would be trying to go up. So it seems like for a backward facing bar you'd want it on the driver's side of the pumpkin. Although considering you're offroading and not drag racing I wonder if there is much advantage to sacrificing travel, clearance or fit when picking which side of the pumpkin to put it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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