Incommando

That is Alexia's lift and I linked it above get er done, lets have a lookDue to other projects this will be a driveway job. It will have to warm up a bit. It was 22 today

I mentioned that you can often find good used parts and new parts that folks have bought but did not use. I found a package deal on CL that included NIB fixed Rusty's extended LCA's, Rusty's braided front extended brake lines, and a never installed Rock Krawler quick-disconnect kit for $100. To purchase these three items new and to have them shipped to me would have been $290. The new stuff: I also scored a NIB Westin/FEY step bumper off of CL for $40 that will serve for now. I have a receiver hitch with d-ring mounts mounted all of the way through the main tube and welded on both sides for recovery duty. I am not adding this to the lift total as it has nothing to do with the lift.

(NOTE: Final Pricing Update complete 4/1/2014) I will update the build list with what I actually used and the cost including shipping for the items to get a realistic view of the actual cost. I will edit the list and use a red font for the parts that I actually use with the as-shipped price. Front RE 5.5" Springs $87 $87 http://mudflaps.com/i-7093397-rubicon-express-re1345-coil-springs-jeep-xj-5-5-jeep-zj-4-pair.html Adjustable Track Bar RE1660 $125 http://mudflaps.com/i-7093479-rubicon-express-re1660-front-adjustable-super-flex-track-bar-jeep-xj-zj.html Track Bar Bracket RE1665 $54 http://mudflaps.com/i-7093480-rubicon-express-re1665-track-bar-bracket-hd-jeep-xj-zj.html CL find package deal: RK QUICK DISCONNECTS RUSTY'S FIXED LOWERS RUSTY'S BRAIDED FRONT BRAKE LINES NIB FROM CRAIGSLIST $100 Upper adjustable control arms RE3780 Amazon $165 http://www.amazon.com/Rubicon-Express-RE3780-Super-Flex-Control/dp/B006GJLM4C/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1395074527&sr=1-1&keywords=re3780 Barnes 4wd axle swap kit D44 3” tube $128 http://www.barnes4wd.com/Dana-44-Axle-Swap-Combo_p_129.html Pick your tube Diameter: 2.75” for stock XJ axles or 3.0” for 8.25 swap. Includes perches, high quality u-bolts, spring plates, & shock mounts. I swapped to bent & curved shock mounts for free Shocks $82 F= Monroe 32305 27.25 15.62 Amazon / R= Monroe 32370 27.25 16.12 Amazon BPE's Rough Country #1088 Amazon $25 http://www.amazon.com/Rough-Country-1088-Eliminator-Unlimited/dp/B00B2AFP8O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395075565&sr=8-1&keywords=rough+country+1088 Total Purchased to Date Including shipping $ 767 The new prices and total will include shipping charges and show that those shipping charges can drastically change your bottom line. Remember that paying more for the part and/or bundling parts from the same supplier even if an individual part in the group may be cheaper somewhere else may save you a lot of money on shipping. Of course shopping for free shipping items is a great idea. I have found that the RE4020 Adjustable upper control arms are $173 and shipped free from Mudflaps.com. The $160 IRP uppers are $178 with shipping. $5-$10 here and there adds up just as quickly in savings as it does in nickle and dime charges.

The Initial Plan for A "Budget" SOA 5.5” lift. Front RE 5.5" Springs $87 http://mudflaps.com/...-zj-4-pair.html Adjustable Track Bar $128 http://mudflaps.com/...E1600&go=Search IRO link adapters $13 http://www.ironrocko...ategory_Code=UP RE1175 links $29 http://mudflaps.com/...p-xj-zj-tj.html Fixed lower & adjustable upper control arms $269 http://www.ironrocko...tegory_Code=XSP Allows for adjustment of the pinion angle while keeping the adjuster tucked up high. Save $20 by using fixed upper & lowers Barnes 4wd axle swap kit D44 3” tube $115 http://www.barnes4wd...ombo_p_129.html Pick your tube Diameter: 2.75” for stock MJ axles or 3.0” for 8.25 swap. Includes perches, high quality u-bolts, spring plates, & shock mounts. I swapped to bent & curved shock mounts for free Front brake hose 88-2000 c1500 oreilly $14x2 $28 http://www.oreillyau...&make=Chevrolet rear brake hose 89-96 dakota oreilly $23 http://www.oreillyau...03349&ppt=C0066 Total $692 F. shocks Rusty's RX16 29.92 17.52 S1 BP-7 + $66 http://www.rustysoff...ock-rx-16.html/ R. shocks Rusty's RX11 29.82 17.67 EB1-A EB1-B + $66 http://www.rustysoff...ock-rx-11.html/

Mild lift? Forget it. I want the lift to be able to tuck the tires so I am going SOA & 5.5" in the front. My lift uses Alexia's great parts list as a starting point: http://comancheclub.com/topic/35519-55-600-mj-lift-cheap-high-quality-100-complete-lift/ My options are below in its own frame for easy reference http://comancheclub.com/topic/42254-700-off-road-capable-55-soa-lift/

Many many XJ's run lifts of this height without drop brackets and have no issues. I have seen it/driven it/done it. The IRO bent fixed LCA's are designed with your concern in mind. There are several charts showing the needed length for a given lift height. Having the LCA's pre-made to the right length eliminates the issues you are referring to and you still have the factory adjustments to fine tune the front suspension via normal alignment procedures. The LCA's do not care whether they are fixed or adjustable as long as they are within the correctable length via alignment for your lift height. Having one set or the other adjustable aids in setting the caster back to stock to avoid other issues although you can run fixed/fixed IF both sets are the correct length.

Doing an SOA can seem less expensive but it is often not as cheap as you might think. A lot depends on what you want out of the lift when you consider the end use of your jeep. Do you want a great on-road ride at the possible cost of lessened off-road ability? Do you want the best off-road bang for your buck while still using quality parts? The best part of a SOA lift may be that you can piece it together as your budget allows and then assemble it when you have all of the pieces. You can also scour various for sale forums to find better deals on new and/or good used parts to lower the costs. With these things in mind here are the parts than I am gathering for my SOA: "Budget" SOA 5.5” lift. Front RE 5.5" Springs $87 http://mudflaps.com/i-7093397-rubicon-express-re1345-coil-springs-jeep-xj-5-5-jeep-zj-4-pair.html Adjustable Track Bar $128 http://mudflaps.com/search.html?q=+RE1600&go=Search IRO link adapters $13 http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-SBLUB&Category_Code=UP RE1175 links $29 http://mudflaps.com/i-7093357-rubicon-express-re1175-sway-bar-end-links-jeep-xj-zj-tj.html Fixed lower & adjustable upper control arms $269 http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-SHDCA&Category_Code=XSP Allows for adjustment of the pinion angle while keeping the adjuster tucked up high. Save $20 by using fixed upper & lowers Barnes 4wd axle swap kit D44 3” tube $115 http://www.barnes4wd.com/Dana-44-Axle-Swap-Combo_p_129.html Pick your tube Diameter: 2.75” for stock MJ axles or 3.0” for 8.25 swap. Includes perches, high quality u-bolts, spring plates, & shock mounts. I swapped to bent & curved shock mounts for free Front brake hose 88-2000 c1500 oreilly $14x2 $28 http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Brake+Hose/03349/C0066.oap?model=C1500+Pickup+RWD&vi=1031094&year=1988&make=Chevrolet rear brake hose 89-96 dakota oreilly $23 http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BHH1/BH38636/03349.oap?year=1990&make=Dodge&model=Dakota&vi=1087433&ck=Search_03349_1087433_2121&pt=03349&ppt=C0066 Total $692 Add Shocks F. shocks Rusty's RX16 29.92 17.52 S1 BP-7 + $66 http://www.rustysoffroad.com/rustys-rx100-performance-shock-rx-16.html/ R. shocks Rusty's RX11 29.82 17.67 EB1-A EB1-B + $66 http://www.rustysoffroad.com/rustys-rx100-performance-shock-rx-11.html/ I left the shocks off of the initial total as I am willing to use the basic hydro version but others may not want them. Although the front shocks may be selected based on lift height please remember that your rear shock choice will be dictated by how you mount them. The only sure way to know what you need is to flex and compress your springs after the lift is done and use those measurements. You can adjust the front or rear height if needed to get the stance that you want by using spacers, shackles, or blocks. The rear shocks listed above are a good starting point based on the shocks included in various SOA kits available when those kits use weld-on shock mounts. You will need extended bump stops unless you are making a pavement queen..and you should have them then, too. You can spends a couple of bucks and fab them yourself or spend hundreds and anything in between. I will fab mine and I don't believe it will cost me over $10. I am going with the fixed lower/adjustable upper control arms from my personal observations. The fixed lower centers the axle in the wheel well while the adjustable upper allows for pinion angle adjustment to combat death wobble. I chose to use an adjustable upper over an adjustable lower to keep the adjustment pieces up out of the way. You can also go fixed/fixed or adjustable/adjustable based on your desires. I avoided drop brackets as from my experience while wheeling with CAD bracket equipped XJ's and an MJ the brackets may hit in several off-road situations. While I have not seen a bracket itself fail I have seen the bracket smash the "frame" it was attached to when coming off of a rock. The blow would not have occurred without the low-hanging CAD brackets as in this case a short-armed XJ of a similar lift height and tire size had previously made the same drop without contact. While the CAD brackets do provide a superior on-road ride they may lead to trouble in certain off-road situations . I want to eliminate that possibility. The choice is another personal preference thing but a good quality CAD bracket kit designed for the MJ and not requiring modification is comparable in price to my control arm selection. My choice also has less labor involved especially in the rust belt. The track bar I have in the list is perfectly adequate. A popular upgrade is a double shear track bar with a stronger body-side mount available from many sources. IRO has a good set as does RE (1660 + 1665) Using anti-seize on the sway bar links makes them easier to disconnect. As with any disconnect make sure to include a hay to hold the links up out of the way when disconnect even if it is just zip ties. Disconnects are a nice upgrade with a wide range in price for a set. With the addition of shocks you can see that such a SOA lift is knocking on the price-range door of some pre-assembled kits for a similar lift height and in some cases exceeding it. However many of the lift kits at this price-range are of an inferior quality and lack some of the parts, such as adjustable control arms and/or a complete control arm set, that I included and that many feel are required for the best performance. Research which way you want to go. Many thanks to Alexia for pioneering the way with his research and sources. His SOA lift is very thorough and well planned. I went a different way as our end goals are different. http://comancheclub.com/topic/35519-55-600-mj-lift-cheap-high-quality-100-complete-lift/page-5 I will also document the install and results as it occurs in my build thread. http://comancheclub.com/topic/28522-incommandos-4x2-redux/

I need a large portion of a cab corner to repair the PO's wreck damage on my 91

This contraption is based on the 500. The 500 is competing with the Mini and the Land Rover for worst car in America. The 2014 Patriot has a new 6spd auto as an alternative to the crappy CVT. Although it is car based it is by far the best in its class off-road. The Patriot will likely stick around From what I read the Renegade will not get the 9spd due to its physical size. This thing is tiny

Just avoid Rough Country stuff. The "rough" part of the name is well earned.

That is a great MJ. Yeah, the overhang on pick-ups kinda bites.

What would be a good vehicle source for that GM slip yoke?

I love Badlands. I never took my '88 MJ there but this may look familiar: Bill's 491...now closed due to neighbor complaints and insurance costs

Both Rusty's and Rough Country state that the stock arms work for 3" of lift. Anything over requires aftermarket arms. To maintain your budget you can generally get away with just changing to longer fixed lowers for up to 4.5" of lift. The same two shops state that an adjustable track bar is not needed for such a small lift. A common practice for 4.5" lifts is to re-drill the axle side mounting hole to achieve that correction for a 4.5" lift instead of using and adjustable track bar. This method has its supporters and haters but many MJ & XJ owners have gone this route with no ill effects. A drop pitman arm is not needed even with 4.5 inches of lift without a chnage to aftermarket from suspension geometry. You money, your decision. You can certainly change to adjustable uppers and lowers and an adjustable track bar if that is something you need to do for your own standards for about $450-$500. The brake line relocation trick works fine for the front for up to 4.5" of lift. If you need longer front hoses then 95 YJ units are longer bolt-ons for the front while a 97-ish Dakota rear lines work and are longer. You can buy aftermarket purpose built lines for about 4x the price. Some people are anal retentive and can only do what someone has told them is the "right" way. Your personality and wallet will decide whether this applies to you or not.

To echo Pete: Low numerical gears do not automatically equal peak MPG. Having a balanced package that matches engine hp/TQ level to final drive ratio often increases mileage depending one your usage. If you are calculating MPG based on the odometer could it be inaccurate based on your swaps?

Right there is part of the problem. One thing that kills RockAuto is their shipping practices. My brake order cited above would have come from FOUR different warehouse with separate shipping charges for each. Not only does "bundling" the items together cost less for large volume shippers but the bundling does not cost more as they usually pay a flat rate for certain parameters whether they are determined by weight or box dimensions. And for such large scale shippers the actual cost is often much less then they charge you. So does RA care that you are overpaying based on their shipping methods? Nope. You are paying it and they are making money off of it. I was a security manager for Limited Brands (aka Victoria's Secret) for 4 years following retirement. They are one of the largest shippers in the world. I was responsible for internal issues (employee theft, for example) and was trained on many aspects of the business including shipping. I dealt with UPS & FedEx daily and got to know a bit about the shipping business. USPS was almost impossible to work with but that is another issue entirely I am glad they work out for some people and I can see that they have access to some harder to find parts. But not only are they never lower than purchasing locally for me they have always been markedly higher. I did snag one of their "manufacturer closeouts" ( why not call them clearance items?)The brake hardware kit was $5 cheaper by going with an unknown brand on clearance. Even so the total was $40 more than O'Reilly on a $150 order and $50 more than Advance and that is ignoring the core issue. No one is going to pay $15 to ship a $15 core caliper back to them and if you don't think they are profiting from it....

I have tried them 3 times for certain and they were never within spitting differences of the local shops. Maybe there are regional price differences for the chain stores or something. :dunno:

Curb weight of a 4x4 MJ is from 3100-3300 for the varying lengths and options per the listings in two owner's manuals I have seen. If yours weighs 5,000 by adding two passengers I must assume that those passengers are soon going to have their own Lifetime Network reality show after someone knocks a wall down to forklift them from their houses. What are the "geometrical" mathematical equations on the forces involved with braking that 8,000 # truck pulling 30,000 #? Can it do it? Not only "quite possibly" but absolutely. And in a safe enough manner for a liability concerned manufacturer to put it in writing. Just like a liability concerned Chrysler put it in writing that a properly equipped MJ could tow 5,000 #'s. Say the Dodge has 2.5 times the braking area of the MJ. Would mean the upper limit of its safe stopping ability for a trailer weight would be 2.5 times that of the MJ using the examples cited? But that would be ignoring the doubling of the curb weight of the tow vehicle and the effects of that weight on the stopping distance and... Hmmmm...I guess the forces multiple differently for the Dodge than the MJ? :wavey: All kidding aside we have to also keep in mind that the factory specs were for a new truck. The newest of MJ's is 22 years old and it would be a rare example that did not suffer from varying degrees of degradation. That being said the cash outlay for the purchase of even a beater dependable enough to tow with plus insurance, registration, etc for another vehicle... is probably much higher than it seems unless you find a smoking deal. A 4.0 H.O. MJ with a 4.0, AW4, and 3.55 gears has most of the puzzle pieces in place to tow what it was intended to tow IF the components are in good shape. Worn springs will cause the tow vehicle to wag considerably, for example. The added wheelbase that both of the MJ's offer is an advantage offer its SWB SUV brethren & cousins when towing, as well. A properly equipped MJ in good repair should not have trouble towing weights approaching its max. There is no easy answer but I have towed with an MJ with an estimated 3,500 # trailer and would not hesitate to do so again. http://www.fourwheeler.com/project-vehicles/154-0610-jeep-comanche-mj/ In closing let me just say that it's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.... M. Python 1975

Several times I have priced purchases through these guys and each time they have been 20 to 30% or more higher than local shops. I am pricing the same quality level of parts at each site. Today I priced brake pads, shoes, drums, calipers and hardware kits for a 1998 XJ, my axle donor vehicle. Advance Auto: 148 shipped (plus I would get a $25 off of $50 future purchase offer) OReilly's: 155 shipped RockAuto: 195 shipped At the top two places you can return your cores in-store. At RockAuto you have to pay shipping to return the cores and they caution you upfront that the shipping costs to return a core will often be more than the core charge! And warranties claims? What a hassle. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere and can't drive to a parts store for under $40 worth of gas why would you shop RockAuto?

This. Those short rear shocks are limiting your travel and weld-on mounts are very cheap. If you want to protect your tires and body at full flex remember to bump stop the up-travel to prevent tire contact. I like to have enough clearance on the front to allow me to turn the wheels at full flex without hitting the body. Being friends with your sawzall also helps those clearance issues... :brows:

Actually 33's only give you a half inch of extra lift over 32's. Although 1" taller at any given time half of that increase is above the axle line and does not provide extra height. The width debate is as old as the hills. A common line of thought is that a narrower tread works better in soft stuff like mud and deep snow where digging works while a wider tread works better on hard ground, sand, and rocks. Keeping the above height info in mind maybe go with a 32x11.5 to split the difference? If you need rims anyway you could get some junkyard rims from KJ or something and run 265/75/16's as they are the metric equivalent of those 32's. If you want 33's the 10.5's could be mounted on factory rims which would save some money. Narrower tires also cause fewer clearance issues and may stuff better when flexed.

Give it that dually look...at least in the front

troof FWIW Westin/Fey states that their MJ bumper has a tow rating of 350/3,500. That matches the factory max towing capacity without a receiver hitch.

That has to be a fun ride

All the brake upgrades in the world won't be able to break the laws of physics, man. Mass is mass. What you're doing is akin to a flyweight boxer roiding up so he can go beat up on a heavyweight. Maybe he'll be able to do it, but most likely Iron Mike is going to bite his ear off and eat his children. ("All praise be to Allah!" lol). I towed a Suburban on a dolly once with my ZJ. Only about 6 miles on side streets. Even with a stroker, 4 wheel discs, upgraded pads and rotors (not taking anything away from EBC... their stuff rocks!), OME coils and Biksteins all around, it was pretty scary. I could pull the load VERY easily, but when it came time to stop.... well, I definately felt like the load was pushing me around. It's not fun, man. If you want to tow and do it safely and sell, check out dealerships in your area that specialize in used fleet vehicles. I've seen (admittedly high mileage) gas powered Silverado 2500HD's with an allison/6.0 combo go for under 3 grand if you stick to the basic white exterior/ rubber interior, single cab, 2wd long bed configuration. Not true. Can you really tell me that the new CTD Ram 3500 that can tow 30,000 pounds weighs 30,000 pounds or more itself? Absolutely not. The truck weighs about 8,000 pounds. Does a semi tractor weigh 80,000 pounds? If your hypothesis about mass alone were true than no vehicle could tow more than its curb weight. From the factory an MJ with the tow package (tranny cooler/AW4/D44 rear) with a class three receiver hitch installed could tow 5,000 pounds per the factory manual for my '88. See? Even the factory approved it to tow more than its curb weight. Without the tow package the max. trailer weight was 3,500 pounds. ( greater than the average curb weight,too.) I have the manual buried in storage and only noted the stats for an AW4 as that is what I had.It is possibly that the stick had a 2,500 # tow rating but I am not sure. From my experience I would not tow 5,000 pounds with an MJ without these things: 1. the master cyl. upgrade (WJ or XJ dual diaphragm) 2. rear disc brakes if I didn't have a D44 or similar axle with larger brakes than a D35. (many 1/5 ton full-sized tricks used a D44 or equivalent rear and drum brakes) 3. upgrade to open cooling system if towing for any distance. (although I never experienced cooling issues with the factory closed system) 4 Stiffer springs and/or helper shocks 5. AW4 with a tranny cooler (preferred) or at least an AX15 with a new or HD clutch. 6. receiver hitch (with sway control if possible) 7. trailer brakes 8. 3.55 or better rear gears especially with a stick On my factory-D44 equipped '88 withan AW4,tranny cooler, an aftermarket receiver hitch, and trailer brakes I towed a 12' dual axle solid wood floored landscaping tralier with two riding mowers and other equipment on it with no drama. I never weighed it. It was fine except that emergency braking could get interesting but I was using the stock booster. Such emergency braking issues are pretty common with most towing set-ups that approach or exceed the curb weight of the tow vehicle anyway. Pull in front of a semi to prove this. The '88 truck did have a long add-a-leaf and I don't think that most of our 22 + year old rear springs are still up to not only the weight bearing but the control of the side-to-side motions.