To rebuild or swap, 4L60e advice needed.

[coheed]

I know the 4L60e isn't a commonly used or talked about transmission on this site, but I figured with the wealth of knowledge here and how common they are someone will be able to chime in.

 

So, the 4L60e I've swapped into my MJ from a 94 Camaro is slipping in 3rd and 4th. I know the common issue is the 3-4 clutch pack burning up, and there's no dearth of information about diagnosing and rebuilding this transmission. Unfortunately, this is an odd use case, as it's a 60 degree bellhousing and I've swapped the output shaft and tail housing so I can run a NP242 on the back of it. So, picking up a known good unit is very slim pickins. 

 

One alternative would be to find an AX15 or NV3550 and swap the truck back to a manual. I kept the 4L60e with the motor as the AX5 in the truck could have been original, with over 350k miles on it, and some point down the road I'd like to TDI swap the truck. The 4L60e seemed like a decent option as they hold power well if built right, and standalone controllers are easy to get whenever I went that route. Swapping back to manual would also mean getting another clutch pedal assembly, master and slave cylinders, lines, flywheel and clutch, a Dakota bellhousing, and potentially driveshafts (both the AX and NV would be a half inch longer than the 4L60). 

 

The other, I suppose more straight forward solution, would be to pull and diagnose the 4L60e and replace what's needed/ rebuild. That's where I'm hesitant. I've never done any work on an automatic aside from pulling this one apart to swap out the output shaft and tail housing. When I bought the Camaro from @dasbulliwagen it had about 140k on it, and the person he got it off of said the trans had about 30k on a rebuild (which may or may not be true, I don't really know how to tell because like I said I have no experience with autos).

 

With no way to know how many miles are actually on the 4L60e, would it just be smarter to rebuild the unit fully instead of pulling and replacing some parts? By my math it seems like rebuilding the 4L60 and swapping to an AX/NV would be about the same cost if I bought all the parts myself and upgraded the common failure points. How long is a rebuilt 4L60e going to last as long as I make sure to maintain it properly? Also, does anyone have any good and trusted resources, hard copy books or online, for rebuilding and diagnosing the 4L60e?

[89 MJ]

I’d get the 4L60e rebuilt completely. As long as you change the fluid in it fairly regularly, it should live a long life. My parents had one in an 04 Suburban they bought new. The thing towed greater than its towing capacity a few times and had 190k miles on it when it got totaled by a hailstorm. Never needed any transmission work. 

[derf]

The 4L60e is probably the most common swap transmission in the off road community.  And they put it in eleventy bazillion GM cars.  Rebuild parts are plentiful, and even upgrade kits are an easy find.  The guts are basically the same no matter the bellhousing.

 

If it were me, I'd just pull it, take it to the transmission shop, have them do a rebuild with common inexpensive upgrades, and stab it back in.

 

When you do the TDI swap, that's when swapping a different transmission in would make sense.

[coheed]

1 hour ago, 89 MJ said:

I’d get the 4L60e rebuilt completely. As long as you change the fluid in it fairly regularly, it should live a long life. My parents had one in an 04 Suburban they bought new. The thing towed greater than its towing capacity a few times and had 190k miles on it when it got totaled by a hailstorm. Never needed any transmission work. 

 

Rebuilding it is probably what I'll settle on. There's a lot of love and hate for the 4L60, but it seems like if it's built well and not abused or too much torque put through it it'll do fine.

1 hour ago, derf said:

The 4L60e is probably the most common swap transmission in the off road community.  And they put it in eleventy bazillion GM cars.  Rebuild parts are plentiful, and even upgrade kits are an easy find.  The guts are basically the same no matter the bellhousing.

 

If it were me, I'd just pull it, take it to the transmission shop, have them do a rebuild with common inexpensive upgrades, and stab it back in.

 

When you do the TDI swap, that's when swapping a different transmission in would make sense.

 

There's no way I'd spend the time and money to rebuild and not upgrade the common failure parts.

Unfortunately, taking it to a shop isn't in the budget. To get it built with the parts I'd want, parts alone would be $1000-1200 doing some minimal pricing over the last day. Then add on $150-200/hr labor rates, it'll get real pricey real quick. 

[Gojira94]

You’re using the original L32’s PCM to run the 60E? The torque converter clutch lockup apply strategy and shifting use one less solenoid than 95 & up. 94 had its own torque converter clutch frictions. 95 added a 4th (PWM) solenoid for TCC apply and had different converter clutch frictions to stand up to the pulse width modulation TCC lockup. 96 and up entirely different TCC apply strategy again and a removable bellhousing. A working TCC lockup apply strategy is a must or you’ll roast the trans with the extra heat from near constant slippage. An apply servo upgrade (big round plug-looking thing on the passenger side) isn’t expensive. For a 160BHP 3.4L engine you don’t need a 5-pinion planetary or much of anything else. Redline clutches and Kolene steels are the go-to for rebuilds and not a lot more expensive.

 

if you’ve retained the 12-pin OBD1 port, here’s your scan/ monitor/ diag tool for that L32/ 60E combo:

 

https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/v6-tech-22/scan9495-v6-obd1-utility-3-4l-f-cars-875018/

[coheed]

10 hours ago, Gojira94 said:

You’re using the original L32’s PCM to run the 60E? The torque converter clutch lockup apply strategy and shifting use one less solenoid than 95 & up. 94 had its own torque converter clutch frictions. 95 added a 4th (PWM) solenoid for TCC apply and had different converter clutch frictions to stand up to the pulse width modulation TCC lockup. 96 and up entirely different TCC apply strategy again and a removable bellhousing. A working TCC lockup apply strategy is a must or you’ll roast the trans with the extra heat from near constant slippage. An apply servo upgrade (big round plug-looking thing on the passenger side) isn’t expensive. For a 160BHP 3.4L engine you don’t need a 5-pinion planetary or much of anything else. Redline clutches and Kolene steels are the go-to for rebuilds and not a lot more expensive.

 

if you’ve retained the 12-pin OBD1 port, here’s your scan/ monitor/ diag tool for that L32/ 60E combo:

 

https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/v6-tech-22/scan9495-v6-obd1-utility-3-4l-f-cars-875018/

Yes, it's running on the original PCM with no changes made to how it manages the transmission. I've been using scan9495 and Tunercat using the ALDL port and both programs have been great and easy to use so far. The truck isn't the vehicle I use the most, and I've only been driving around in 2nd since I've found the slipping issue in an attempt to keep it from getting worse or overheating.

 

With the hopes of swapping a TDI in the future with up to 300lb/ft torque, would it be smart to upgrade the planetaries? There seems to be heavy debate over 4 vs 5 and whether it's worth it or not. As far as the apply servo you mentioned, is that the 2-4 servo?

 

I was looking at this build your own kit 4L60E 4L65E 4L70E Custom Transmission Loaded Master Rebuild Kit with these options:

 

Gasket & Seal Overhaul Kit (1993-E1997)

700R4 4L60E Molded Rubber Piston Upgrade Kit (1982-E1997)

Friction Module w/ Z-Pak Upgrade (1987-Up) Raybestos

High Performance Kolene Steel Module (1987-UP)

High-Energy ProSeries 2-4 Band by Raybestos (1982-UP)

Master Bushing Kit (1985-UP)

Torrington Bearing Kit (1982-2006) w/o 2001-UP Reaction to Sun Shell Bearing

SmartShell® Heavy Duty Reaction Shell Kit (1982-UP) Sonnax

Valve Body Separator Plate by Transgo (1993-1994)

HD Forward Sprag (29-Element) Borg-Warner (1987-UP)

Low Reverse Roller Clutch Sprag (1987-Up) Borg Warner

Performance Corvette 2-4 Servo Assembly (1982-UP) Ready-to-Install

4L60E Pump Hard Parts Kit 10-Vane

1-2 Accumulator Piston (1982-UP) Aluminum Small Pin Style

Transmission Reprogramming Kit (1993-UP) TransGo #4L60E-HD2

Servo Release Check Valve Kit (1982-UP) Sonnax

[Gojira94]

When you said TDI did you mean TBI, like GM throttle body injection 4.3 swap? I read TDI and thought a diesel swap.

[coheed]

Just now, Gojira94 said:

When you said TDI did you mean TBI, like GM throttle body injection 4.3 swap? I read TDI and thought a diesel swap.

No, I mean a VW TDI. A BHW can make 300lb/ft off just a tune, and even the older ALH can make right under that with upgrades.

[Gojira94]

10-4. Then I'd question doing much more than a standard rebuild of the 60E with a few minor strength upgrades, since you won't be able to use it behind that VW motor.

[Gojira94]

I take that back. I had no idea you could put one behind a TDI.

[coheed]

2 minutes ago, Gojira94 said:

I take that back. I had no idea you could put one behind a TDI.

Yeah, there's a few guys running the SBC pattern 4l60s behind TDI's and they make an adapter for the 60 degree bellhousings as well.

 

Does the list I posted above seem like it's missing anything? I assume I'll also need to look for wear on some other parts and check solenoids and things as I would be going through it as well.

[Gojira94]

Yep, your list looks good. I think you'll be pleased with it when you're done.

[derf]

I would think it's difficult to find a 60° GM bellhousing adapter for the TDI but a SBC pattern is much easier.

 

So I would just do the basic rebuild on the one you have and run it while you save up for the TDI swap.  Change transmissions then, whether it's a 4L60 or AX15.

 

And if you stick with the automatic, you may even be able to get a 700R4 and skip the electronics altogether.