bhorocks Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 anyone put 6 inches of lift keeping the stock tierod steering setup have their camber way off??? the bottom of the tires are pointing in and causing all kinds of issues. i know i can get adjustable ball joints but hoping the steering setup is what is causing the issue. would my castor being to far negative cause this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 How's your caster? Alignment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhorocks Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 i put it at negative 6 but maybe that is over kill??? well, at least it isn't hard to adjust.. toe looks fine though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhorocks Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 looking into it i think i measured my castor wrong.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 If your camber if off you either have bad balljoints, bad wheelbearings or a bent axle. Inspect everything carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhorocks Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 i'll sanp a shot of my castor measurement so you can all tell me i did it wrong. (hope it is wrong) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 This is on an MJ? Both axles are solid axles. The rear has no camber. In the front, the camber is fixed with the steering knuckles are attached to the axles, and the only way to change/adjust it is to use special, offset balljoints. What I'm saying is, lifting an MJ does NOT change the camber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 looking into it i think i measured my castor wrong.. Measure the caster with an angle finder on the upper ball joint face. Should be at least 4* Positive, not negative. I think CW posted up a pic on this previously......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhorocks Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 looking into it i think i measured my castor wrong.. Measure the caster with an angle finder on the upper ball joint face. Should be at least 4* Positive, not negative. I think CW posted up a pic on this previously......... positive???? really? i thought it had to be negative.. pointing the pinion up more. negative would point the pinion downwards.. but if it is supposed to be that way then heck i am 12 degrees off! look below for the refrence between positive and negative so we are on the same page... http://www.mkiv.com/faq/caster.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhorocks Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 could my camber be off because of the stock steering setup not being long enough pulling up on the knuckles??? sounds crazy but maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 positive???? really? i thought it had to be negative.. pointing the pinion up more. negative would point the pinion downwards.. but if it is supposed to be that way then heck i am 12 degrees off! That's the problem with big lifts. You want the pinion to point up for your u-joint angles to stay within reason, but caster is supposed to be around 8 degrees POSITIVE for proper steering, handling, and avoiding death wobble. So you have to find a "happy medium" -- which often isn't really "happy" for either the u-joints or the steering, but it's the best you can get. Somewhere around 5 to 6 degrees positive is probably where you'll end up. The right way to do it, of course, is the pop the welds on your axle ears and reweld so the knuckles are at a different angle to the center section. This site may help: http://gojeep.willyshotrod.com/HowtoAlignment.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhorocks Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 well crap, i went the wrong way on my adjustment is what you are telling me?? need to rotate it down more... that cool. I almost bought RK Extreme Duty Steering Upgrade kit. i mean i stil lwant it but a drop pitman arm is going in as well to help releave some stress on the stock steering setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroader461 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 i have a buddy who bought the RK steering kit and he is not happy with the passenger side mounting...it hangs down and he catches it on things all the time...i personally will be going with the Motion Offroad setup when i save up some money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhorocks Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 i was just looking at the jcr offroad kit which i think is the same thing. I may order this tomorrow so i can get it in the truckety truck. I need to finish it all and get my trans/tcase in so i can get my d-shafts measured... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLHTAZ Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I made the same mistake when we did the SOA on our YJ. I pushed the pinion up only 2 degrees and it put the camber off enough that it destroyed the front tires in only 2 months :mad: . On these axles...castor has A LOT to do with camber. I adjusted it back down to the original position and everything is fine now...tires are wearing good, no steering issues etc, etc... 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhorocks Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 well took it for a test drive tonite after fixing all the camber/caster issues i had. check my toe and set it properly. got up to 4th of course.. DW. now i am upset because i can't do anyhting to get any more positive caster besides buy adjustable lower arms.. wish i haed never bought my adjustable uppers.. could have got a long arm upgrade at the cost i am going to be at!!!! check all bolts and nuts. the only other thing it could be is the superflex joints. anyone ever had an issue with these wearing out causing dw? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Buy 2 degree offset upper balljoints and you will gain 2 degrees of caster if they are turned correctly. I put a tack weld on mine after I installed them to make sure they wouldn't turn later on while I was wheeling. You can get them at Napa. If you are worried about the superflex end on your control arms they are adjustable so you can eliminate any looseness caused by wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWLONGSHOT Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 If you want my advice... BEFORE you go out and just start changing parts will e Nill e. :D :eek: Look thru the TUNDREDS of threads on DW and check EVERY PART in your front end. ASSUME NOTHING, NEW doesn't mean its not the problem. You WILL FIND IT, if your diligent. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisty Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 You can also add shims behind the LCA mount on the "frame." Look for a thread started by JEEPERZ, as CW posted many helpful pictures. What exactly are your lift components? 6.5" lift...how about control arms? Adjustable uppers and lowers, or neither? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhorocks Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 used shims. i have adjustable uppers RE fixed super flex lowers., 4.5 springs 1.75 spaces, rustys hd trackbar and mount. Stock steering components. Would like to upgrade the the rcp unit same as motion offroad. going for alignment and tire balance today. Hopefully that will fix it. we will see. if not i was thinking about drop brackets but the braces don't fit. anyone have any problems Drop brackets in the long run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisty Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 The problem is you are running contol arms for a 4.5" lift. If you had adjustables you would be in better shape. I think that in your case, drop brackets would be a benefit (if you don't plan on getting long arms any time soon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhorocks Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 see, that is my dilemma.. spend more money on drop brackets and lower adjustable control arms or just spend the 500 is on a upgrade package. i could sell my control arms for 200 and afford the whole upgrade kit prolly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 used shims. going for alignment and tire balance today. Hopefully that will fix it. we will see. What is your caster measurement now? The stealer sells 4* shims for the LCAs (or you can make your own) so it's possible to get over 12* more POSITIVE caster by pushing the LCA all the way forward in the slotted frame hole. I tried it, there is that much room. 'Course like Eagle said, that much caster will increase the working angles of the front driveshaft and can cause vibes with a lift like yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEAD_NOT_FOLLOW Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Just for reference here is the measurements that you should be at with your control arms for a 6" lift. 6" LCA - 17" UCA - 15½" And I noticed your post about a drop pitman arm.... You should never have to use a drop pitman arm. DPAs should ONLY be used if you're lowering the trackbar mount on the frame, or raising it on the axle, otherwise it will CAUSE bumpsteer. The whole belief that you need a drop pitman arm with a lift has been perpetuated from the days of leaf sprung vehicles without trackbars. On these vehicles you wanted to keep the angle of the draglink as flat as possible to minimize bumpsteer. On vehicles with a trackbar, you want to keep the draglink as parallel to the trackbar as possible to minimize bumpsteer. With a DPA, your making it worse. A dropped pitman arm will also increase the amount of torque/axial loading on the shaft your steering box experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhorocks Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 well it handled like a turd even after getting alignment so i got the drop brackets due to my debate of RK 3 link OR drop Brackets. then people said skip the RK 3link and get the TNT kit.. so i am saving for the TNT kit while i have Drop brakets. besides i already had upper adjustables and superflex lowers. I only have 4 degrees postive now but it handles soooo much better. might cut an inch off the upper adjustalbes to be able to thread in more. but i am happy with it for now. I just want to drive it for a few days till i do the trans/tcase swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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