Track Bar Options (& follow-up question(s)), & thanks

[kazam]

07-24-2022

 

Greetings,

 

Thanks for the help already.

My (MJ's) track bar assembly broke at the ball-joint to bracket (Ball-Joint pin sheared at the bracket at the Frame Rail).

The Stock, whatever was on there, held up well beyond reasonable expectations.

 

 

With some responses to my previous posting, and my research, my question about the 'stock' track bar assembly was answered to help my perspective.

The track bar does usually (stock, and plenty of aftermarket) be there as an assembly and Not Servicable at the Ball-Joint end.

 

I saw a link in some posts about "Luke's Links" or so, and that is not the option for this MJ and me.

 

I am planning on installing the 'Rough Country' Track Bar set:

 

https://www.roughcountry.com/forged-adjustable-track-bar-1181.html

 

https://www.amazon.com/Rough-Country-1181-Country-1181-Front-Adjustable/dp/B01MATBAOK/ref=asc_df_B01MATBAOK/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312429177733&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3369271850692443368&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029579&hvtargid=pla-547237310127&psc=1

 

I read that this kit will fit a stock (non-lifted) Cherokee; a friend of mine has a 2000 XJ that could do with a new track-arm set.

I had read that sometimes the new bracket Hits___________________Something.

 

 

Also:

I had installed WJ controll arms in my Jeep MJ.

After all the shaking I have to re-check the bushings.

With previous XJs I had boxed the stock control arms with round pipe; then after clean-up I replaced the bushings, and at the time, Moog ran Great; straight/flat/no un-due roll/ Really connected, nicely leveled turns at speed; for example 55mph at up and down roads winding, and there was grip.

It took a buch of specifics to get to that point.

And to be truthful; the Edelbrock IAS Performer shocks, front and rear made a World of difference.

Each part can do So much.

 

How are the Rough Country kits holding up on Yours?

 

 

Thanks very much for the information. 

That can help to get to better configurations.

 

 

Thanks again.

[ghetdjc320]

Rough country would be bottom of my choice for a track bar. Their reputation for sub-par joints on an item as critical as a track bar is a non starter for me. And that tie-rod style adjuster sleeve on that thing seems like a horrible design. Are you wanting to ditch the oem track bar bracket at the frame side? If so, I’d look into the core4x4 track bar kit. They have a version for stock ride height from what I’ve seen. The design is similar to the rough country version but without an adjuster sleeve (which does not belong on a track bar). Core has a good reputation for strong well built components. Whichever model you go with, keep in mind that although the length of the track bar may work with no lift, the bracket may require a lift to clear. And you also need to be sure that your drag link and tie rod are parallel. Many aftermarket brackets lower the mounting location at the frame side.
 

[Smokeyyank]

Pass on junk country. IRO make a nice trackbar, same with CORE, Ironmanfab and some others. 

 

Do you have a lift? 

[motownXJdad]

This is the setup ill be running on my MJ when i 4wd swap it. its a Skyjacker BTA-10 kit for MJ\XJs. its the only OTA track bar that is bolt on. the bar itself is solid, not tube. and as you can see lines up perfectly with the drag link is adjustable, and shouldnt have any bumpsteer. 

[Smokeyyank]

11 hours ago, motownXJdad said:

This is the setup ill be running on my MJ when i 4wd swap it. its a Skyjacker BTA-10 kit for MJ\XJs. its the only OTA track bar that is bolt on. the bar itself is solid, not tube. and as you can see lines up perfectly with the drag link is adjustable, and shouldnt have any bumpsteer. 

 

Something not right. The track bar is not bolted to the bottom bracket and while it's straight with the drag link the tie rod is not and it should be parallel to the ground. It should look more like this. 

 

All track bars are "bolt on" (uncles it's something fabbed), biggest difference is whether you move to a double shear or keep the TRE style connection. Double shear is a lot better on lifted rigs.  

[Pete M]

the tie rod in an inverted Y steering setup will become less and less parallel with the ground as lift increases.    just the cost of the geometry involved.

 

for the track bar, I assume he's got some sort of relocation bracket?

[75sv1]

To me it's a pseudo OTK trackbar. I do not like it. It looks like it used the steering shock bracket and then the original stock trackbar bracket drilled. Also, a heim joint at that location. ??? I like a poly bushing for road use. 

I do run the Rusty's  OTK trackbar and the  Stinky Fabs OTK trackbar. Rusty's OK, Stinky's Great. I do have the Ironman's OTK. I do not have it installed. Probably on the MJ. I don't like the Ironman's Axle bracket for the OTK. Its more like an upgraded stock. 

    I also don't like the steering link setup shown. Looks like an uber stock setup. I am not sure what I'd use there. Well, I do run the WJ Big Brakes, and then the Ruff Stuff 1-ton GM cross over steering. I am setting up a IRO OTK steering. Not thrilled though. 

   

[75sv1]

Category: U-Turn - OffRoadOnly

 

This is another I've been looking at. I do have my questions, though. Another possibility is the Clayton (???) knuckle. The guy who does welding and some other stuff on my XJs, found one for cheap. True cross over steering. He liked mine. Put in on his Wrangler. I saw someone's, I think with a added bracket on one side looked good. I could not find the link again. 

[motownXJdad]

2 hours ago, Smokeyyank said:

 

Something not right. The track bar is not bolted to the bottom bracket and while it's straight with the drag link the tie rod is not and it should be parallel to the ground. It should look more like this. 

 

All track bars are "bolt on" (uncles it's something fabbed), biggest difference is whether you move to a double shear or keep the TRE style connection. Double shear is a lot better on lifted rigs.  

the Skyjacker setup is designed NOT to bolt to the original factory lower mount, the original track bar along with the inverted Y steering linkage is doomed to bumpsteer the more you lift it.this kit it is a true bolt on set up, no welding needed, the only other way to correct your angles between the drag link and the track bar with an OTA track bar,  are weld in kits. Not only does is line up the angles of the drag link and track, it also puts them on the same arc.

[motownXJdad]

5 hours ago, Pete M said:

the tie rod in an inverted Y steering setup will become less and less parallel with the ground as lift increases.    just the cost of the geometry involved.

 

for the track bar, I assume he's got some sort of relocation bracket?

correct, the bracket is gold\zinc coated in the photo, so it actually stabilizes the thin metal stabalizer bracket, which is the same thickness as the lower track bar bracket. on the frame side I'm using a Rusty's heavy duty double shear bracket

[motownXJdad]

2 hours ago, Smokeyyank said:

 

Something not right. The track bar is not bolted to the bottom bracket and while it's straight with the drag link the tie rod is not and it should be parallel to the ground. It should look more like this. 

 

All track bars are "bolt on" (uncles it's something fabbed), biggest difference is whether you move to a double shear or keep the TRE style connection. Double shear is a lot better on lifted rigs.  

I'm also using a heavy duty Rusty's off road double shear bracket on the frame side. ill a!lso be running Steinjager "1 ton" steering

[motownXJdad]

1 hour ago, 75sv1 said:

To me it's a pseudo OTK trackbar. I do not like it. It looks like it used the steering shock bracket and then the original stock trackbar bracket drilled. Also, a heim joint at that location. ??? I like a poly bushing for road use. 

I do run the Rusty's  OTK trackbar and the  Stinky Fabs OTK trackbar. Rusty's OK, Stinky's Great. I do have the Ironman's OTK. I do not have it installed. Probably on the MJ. I don't like the Ironman's Axle bracket for the OTK. Its more like an upgraded stock. 

    I also don't like the steering link setup shown. Looks like an uber stock setup. I am not sure what I'd use there. Well, I do run the WJ Big Brakes, and then the Ruff Stuff 1-ton GM cross over steering. I am setting up a IRO OTK steering. Not thrilled though. 

   

no psuedo about it the axle side mount is above the axle. heim on the frame side, poly bushing on the axle side.

[ghetdjc320]

The critical thing is that the mounting points for drag link and track bar, if adjusted, are done so equally. In other words, if you drop the track bar frame side mount, then get a drop pitman that equalizes that drop for the drag link (not that I’m recommending drop pitman arms but they have their place). If you raise up the track bar mounting point on the axle side then raise up the drag link on the knuckle.
Looking at how bars “look” parallel is irrelevant. I would never install a bolt on bracket on the axle side of the track bar. Think about this, the frame side track bar mount had 4 large grade 10.9 bolts holding it to an area with significant reinforcement. The axle side should be just as strong. The stock track bar mount metal was far too thin for rigorous use. We often see track bar bolt holes wallowed out even with stock track bars with clevite joints. Now imagine a heim joint with almost zero give. It will put even more stress on those bolt holes. The steering stabilizer mount is the same thickness metal but has far less welded contact area and is not a suitable place to mount a bracket that will take an equal or greater pounding than stock. 
Properly welding on a correctly engineered ota track bar mount is the way to go. Imagine your track bar bracket shearing off when your doing 55 around a corner. Not worth the risk imo. If there was a simple bolt on approach for the axle side, then you would see the more reputable companies selling competing products. 

[75sv1]

1 hour ago, motownXJdad said:

no psuedo about it the axle side mount is above the axle. heim on the frame side, poly bushing on the axle side.

OK, poorly executed design. The heim is not in a double shear. So, additional torque on that thin bracket. As stated by another, attached to the thin sheet metal of the stock bracket.  I just don't like. I think the  concept could be OK. First, put the axle side in the center of the mount. So, a true double shear. Then weld washer doublers front and back. Then a double shear trackbar on the frame. 

[motownXJdad]

1 hour ago, 75sv1 said:

OK, poorly executed design. The heim is not in a double shear. So, additional torque on that thin bracket. As stated by another, attached to the thin sheet metal of the stock bracket.  I just don't like. I think the  concept could be OK. First, put the axle side in the center of the mount. So, a true double shear. Then weld washer doublers front and back. Then a double shear trackbar on the frame. 

or just use a Rusty's off road double shear bracket like i said i was using earlier👍. 

[motownXJdad]

2 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

The critical thing is that the mounting points for drag link and track bar, if adjusted, are done so equally. In other words, if you drop the track bar frame side mount, then get a drop pitman that equalizes that drop for the drag link (not that I’m recommending drop pitman arms but they have their place). If you raise up the track bar mounting point on the axle side then raise up the drag link on the knuckle.
Looking at how bars “look” parallel is irrelevant. I would never install a bolt on bracket on the axle side of the track bar. Think about this, the frame side track bar mount had 4 large grade 10.9 bolts holding it to an area with significant reinforcement. The axle side should be just as strong. The stock track bar mount metal was far too thin for rigorous use. We often see track bar bolt holes wallowed out even with stock track bars with clevite joints. Now imagine a heim joint with almost zero give. It will put even more stress on those bolt holes. The steering stabilizer mount is the same thickness metal but has far less welded contact area and is not a suitable place to mount a bracket that will take an equal or greater pounding than stock. 
Properly welding on a correctly engineered ota track bar mount is the way to go. Imagine your track bar bracket shearing off when your doing 55 around a corner. Not worth the risk imo. If there was a simple bolt on approach for the axle side, then you would see the more reputable companies selling competing products. 

skyjacker has been around for over 40 years, id say thats pretty reputable,  lol. Theres a thick bright gold bracket in the photo that re-enforces the stock axle side bracketry, the stock brackets are all the same thickness metal from the factory for the stableizer and the UTA factory trackbar so I'm confident in Dana's engineers that that bracket with re-enforcement will be totally fine, so confident that i still havent decided if I'm running 33s or 35s yet, lol. either way ill be fine. you want a welded OTA track bar on yours, great, have at it. this is what I'm running on my jeep.

[75sv1]

4 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

Properly welding on a correctly engineered ota track bar mount is the way to go. Imagine your track bar bracket shearing off when your doing 55 around a corner. Not worth the risk imo. If there was a simple bolt on approach for the axle side, then you would see the more reputable companies selling competing products. 

Even in a straight line, it is not fun. Yes, I know.