KJ towing question

[mjeff87]

What are the odds that my 02. 3.7L KJ could tow a 67 FSJ about 300 miles without me killing a busload of pregnant nuns?  The FSJ does not have a driveline in it, but does have a front (D25?) and rear D44 axles with new-ish rubber on all four corners.  I'd be dragging it on a 2 wheel dolly.  Death or no death?

[Pete M]

the KJ didn't get a brakes upgrade with the tow package, but did get a trans cooler.  I think the driving will be safe, but I worry a bit about the transmission if you don't have an external cooler.

 

does the dolly in question have brakes?

[mjeff87]

Nope.  Just a simple 2 wheel dolly.  My KJ has the 45RFE trans (with  new pan, both filters, and a fluid swap a few months ago), and has an OD lockout switch.  I'm not too worried about it, but moreso the few thousand pounds hooked behind it.

[Pete M]

I flat-towed my MJ for a total of 22 hours.  go slow and leave plenty of stopping distance.  you'll be fine.   probably. 

 

 

and get a dash cam in case someone cuts in front of you.  

[mjeff87]

Considering what the guy wants for the FSJ (including the engine and a freshly rebuilt TH400 trans and a bunch of other stuff), its almost worth trying it.  Option #2 is my buddy's Suburban, but the gas money id have to shell out would be astronomical.  And its a hoopty that would likely break down somewhere along the way. Lol.

[Pete M]

uhaul rents trucks.   

[89 MJ]

I’d do a uhaul truck or the Suburban. That’s a lot of weight for a compact SUV to stop, IMHO. 

[mjeff87]

Thats what I'm kinda thinking.

[gogmorgo]

Having just done a pile of towing with my ZJ, including a 4.0/4x4 longbed MJ on a uhaul trailer without functioning brakes, my MPGs were nearly cut in half. I wouldn’t be as concerned about the cost of fuel into it just to have a bit more horsepower and stopping power. Stopping that much unbraked trailer was sketchy. The Suburban will use less fuel than a uhaul truck, plus you’re likely not paying by the mile for it either. 

[ExpatMJGuy]

I used to own a KJ.  It's heavier than it looks. 6k pounds curb weight!  I used to do some towing with mine.  It actually towed better than you would think.  Better than my XJ did if you can believe that.  We moved with a 5x8 box trailer FULLY loaded and heavy as hell a few times.  Biggest physical issues are that stupid spare tire and swinging tailgate being in the way.  The biggest thing to consider is the types of roads and terrain your tackling without those trailer brakes.  Flat 2 lane road, nice and slow.  Or even flatter rural interstate ok as long as it's steady at those speeds.  Mountain roads with 6 or 7 percent grades or an urban beltway where it goes from 80 to 0 in seconds with zig zagging impatient drivers.... NOPE.  Also remember what a 2 wheel dolly does to the driveline of the towed vehicle.  2 wheel dolly should never be used on a 4wd vehicle without the driveshafts being pulled.

[gogmorgo]

5 hours ago, ExpatMJGuy said:

I used to own a KJ.  It's heavier than it looks. 6k pounds curb weight! 

You’re thinking of the same KJ Liberty we all are, right? I don’t see anyone else quoting curb weights over 4400lbs. And I’ll agree that’s heavier than they look, but that body is pretty stout as a result. 
I would drop the driveshaft with a dolly and anything that’s not fwd. 2wd manual you might get away with in neutral on a run that long, but for how little work it is to pull the shaft, it’s not worth the risk. 

[FrankTheDog]

There’s no driveline in that jeep he’s going to be towing. Without the driveline it’ll probably be under 4,000 lbs. Take your time and you should be ok.

[Pete M]

yeah, lets not get crazy here.  fully equipped they are at like 4400# empty.   but that' like 800 more than an XJ.  they are a fat little Jeep.  

[ExpatMJGuy]

13 hours ago, Pete M said:

yeah, lets not get crazy here.  fully equipped they are at like 4400# empty.   but that' like 800 more than an XJ.  they are a fat little Jeep.  

I stand corrected they do run 4400 to 4900 depending on how you equip them and what you have onboard IE skid plates and such.  I'm thinking about when I ran it across the CAT scales to weigh it for a military move 13 years ago.  The army weighs you by the pound when you move.  You have to weigh your vehicles empty and full to figure out your mileage reimbursement.  My wife reminded me that I had to add the trailer to the empty weight because we owned the trailer.  The military does not count your trailer that you personally own when you move towards your shipped weight.  Either way it was an impressive trailer hauler.  And my XJ surprised me as well.  My parents had an emergency and needed to get a horse to a vet and the truck for the horse trailer was out of commission.  We hauled the horse with my XJ over Mont Eagle Mountain Tennessee, it was an emergency.  Would I do it again hell no.  Did it do it.  Yup and even though it was sketch, I was impressed when it was done, and the Liberty tows better.  Again traffic conditions have a lot to do with my decisions in such cases.

[FrankTheDog]

I hauled a 1981 VW camper bus from Knoxville TN to Winsted CT with my 98 XJ.  Interstate the whole way. 
4.0 5 speed 4.10 gears 8.5 rear and 32” load range E tires.

l didn’t realize how heavy they were when I signed on for the “adventure”

It pulled it ok because of the gearing but I never went over 50 mph. It was a bit nerve wracking but I didn’t feel unsafe, most of the time.

 

 

So if you do it, drive slow and allow plenty of room in front of you.

[ExpatMJGuy]

 

9 hours ago, FrankTheDog said:

I hauled a 1981 VW camper bus from Knoxville TN to Winsted CT with my 98 XJ.  Interstate the whole way. 
4.0 5 speed 4.10 gears 8.5 rear and 32” load range E tires.

l didn’t realize how heavy they were when I signed on for the “adventure”

It pulled it ok because of the gearing but I never went over 50 mph. It was a bit nerve wracking but I didn’t feel unsafe, most of the time.

 

 

So if you do it, drive slow and allow plenty of room in front of you.

I love that pic.  I might have some with my old 96 XJ pulling stuff maybe even my 02 Liberty pulling if I dig.

 

I seem to remember the towing capacity of the XJ at 5k pounds.  Will it do more... yup.  I would know.  Should you... another question.  Goes to show what the Liberty is capable of.  The KJ Liberty was an underrated vehicle IMO.  It towed well and was also underrated as a capable off roader.  The off-roading community wasn't ready for Independent Front Suspensions, but IFS is what honestly made it great a great off roader.  They hated it because it created limits to just how high you could lift it and the difficulty level was higher to accomplish the lift for a casual builder on the weekend.  But how high do you really need?  The front end articulation off the pavement was excellent.  The front tires were glued to the trail.  I honestly think in pure stock form the KJ was more capable than the XJ.  I didn't off road it hard very often because the Liberty was my wife's daily driver while I continued to drive my Jetta and my XJ.  When it would leave the pavement I usually got an earful.  A few times it went places where I probably shouldn't have taken it and always came back with me impressed.  Was the KJ flawed?  Yes.  I had a love hate relationship with that swinging tailgate amongst other things.  Jeep was beginning their run of cheap build materials at the time and the interior didn't age well because of it.  But honestly the XJ was flawed in several ways as well.  (Overheating, underpowered brakes, etc)  My MJ has flaws for that matter.  I'm yet to find the absolute perfect Jeep.  But it is hard to beat the Jeeps from the 80's 90's and very early 2000's.

 

And then came the cheap plastic interrior Just Kidding or JK Wrangler, the Commander, the Compass, and the Patriot... Outside of the 4 door Wrangler redesign itself the dark years...  

 

Now we have entered the great build but really Just Empty Every Pocket years... Just on the payment... Ouch those price tags!   It's why I have a Pro-4x Frontier instead of a Gladiator.   In 2019 I paid 13k less for my new fully loaded Frontier than a new stripped to the bone base model Gladiator!  JEEP WAS ABSOLUTELY HIGH AS A KITE to think I'd pay 45k for a lowest of the totem pole S model!  I have a sunroof now, I'm good. 

 

[FrankTheDog]

Towing capacity on a manual XJ is 3500 lbs. The Uhaul center across from where the bus was stored wouldn’t rent me the dolly l had reserved, that’s when l learned how heavy it was. I had just gotten my first iPhone just a few months before and that’s when I learned just how useful they could be on a trip.

 I found a music store that also rented Uhaul’s and when the music guy asked me what l was hauling I said an 81 VW Rabbit and when I said a Cherokee as a tow vehicle he put down Grand Cherokee and I didn’t correct him and we were on our way.

[gogmorgo]

Tow rating in foreign markets on the KJ is in fact something dumb like 7000lbs, but most of those jurisdictions have significantly lower speed limits for trailers, meaning you can get away with much lower tongue weights. But if your trailer isn’t capable of stopping itself there really is no safe way to move more than your GVWR whether that weight is on your vehicle or on the trailer, and in most jurisdictions it isn’t legal either, and while the chances of getting caught are slim, the penalties for going overweight are pretty steep because they’re set up as a deterrent for commercial carriers. 
That’s not to say I haven’t done it either. I generally will mislead uhaul because I’d rather have the surge brakes on the trailer and deal with the extra weight. The dollies don’t have brakes at all, which is straight up illegal anywhere I’ve ever driven. I’m still not sure how they get away with it. But it’s worth mentioning they really don’t care what your tow rating is for vehicle moving. They’ve got a database of vehicle curb weights, and if your tow vehicle’s weight in their database comes in at less than 80% of the towed vehicle+trailer/dolly, they won’t let you do it. So if your tow vehicle only weighs 4000lbs, they’ll only let you pull 4800lbs even though a lot of trucks or SUVS in that range are good for 6000+, and with a 2200lb trailer weight deducted, that’s a pretty small car at under 2600lbs.

Again I’m not saying you should defraud UHaul either. Even though the chance of negative consequences may be low, the cost of having a problem while you’re doing it if anything were to happen is going to exceed the cost of the equipment to do it properly. When you’re on a public road you don’t know what other people are going to do. If someone blows a stop sign and you hit them, it won’t matter in the eyes of the law or an insurance company who was really at fault or if you would or wouldn’t have been able to avoid it regardless of what you’re hauling, if it’s found on that you were exceeding your tow rating, it will be your fault because you were too heavy to stop on time, and you’ll be entirely to blame for anything and everything that happens. And depending on what happens, that could have you up on criminal charges on top of losing insurance coverage.

Really not worth the risk, even if you think your vehicle can do it.

[mjeff87]

Welp, thanks for all the weigh-in guys (no pun intended...), but this project ain't gonna happen any time soon.  I just had a new roof put on the house Monday, and on top of that my house AC outside unit just crapped the bed yesterday.  All of the fun money I did have, I now don't.

 

(that Jeep will probably still be sitting there next year, when we go back up for next Easter........maybe by then I'll grab it.  If anyone else is interested in it, shoot me a PM and I can give you details and contact names/numbers on it.  It's in Phoenixville, PA, about a stone's throw away from Valley Forge national park).

[Pete M]

probably for the better.   I guess an argument can be made that a water proof roof is a little more important than a new old jeep.  not by me though.  but I can see someone able to argue the point.