jtdesigns Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 OK I bought some Moab wheels for my mj ......... the thing is there for 07,08 jeep yt,tj, whatever j it is and after I bought them I find out their 5 on 5 not 5 on 4.5 :roll: :roll: :roll: OK so plan is to make some adapters to fit them on the 4.5 studs..... The thing is I don't know how thick to make the adapters and what backspace or offset the wheels are...... Or think I can change the front rotors to 5 and just make the adapters for the rear only? :redX: :redX: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenH Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 I think they are JK's. You would have mismatched wheel patterns and need 2 spare tires when/if you wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comancheap Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 I'd just go for buying some of the spacer/adapters. SpiderTrax or any other company can help you out there. And to find what bs to use, find out what the JK rims are, and then what your stock wheels are (or how much more/less you want them to stick out), and go for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 I'd just go for buying some of the spacer/adapters. SpiderTrax or any other company can help you out there. And to find what bs to use, find out what the JK rims are, and then what your stock wheels are (or how much more/less you want them to stick out), and go for that. Yeah, I'll make them myself. The thing is the rear axle studs are a 1" long and the fronts are 1.75 " so the rears won't need to be cut with a 1" adapter, but the front will. I'm just wondering how far to counter bore the holes to fit the lug nuts.... and I don't know the offset of the rims, I do know they are 17" x 7.5" and the closest thing on backspacing I have is someone said about 6" I want these things to fit I hope I can make them..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroader461 Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 be better off just buying them...i tried to make them and just said piss on it and bought a set...much easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhardzj Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 get the shafts and hubs off a 99+ WJ, it will carry everything you need, if the rear is a D44, all the better, it ain't hard to cut brackets off and weld new perches on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 get the shafts and hubs off a 99+ WJ, it will carry everything you need, if the rear is a D44, all the better, it ain't hard to cut brackets off and weld new perches on... hummm... :hmm: you know that might work.. the wj is a grand right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Just do a WJ knuckle/brake swap and use the hubs for the front too. That way you shouldn't need a hub spacer to do the swap and you get better brakes and high steer draglink. Just use araised trackbar to eliminate bumpsteer. :chillin: For the rear you could just redrill the axle flange and drum or make the spacers. IMO the rear axle needs to be wider to keep the tires from rubbing on the inner wheelwell/frame when flexed so spacers would be my choice. :D If you do the WJ brake swap and need more rear brake power to balance the braking out just use larger wheel cylinders. There are a few larger sizes available for a D44 and I believe they are the same ones a D35 would use to upgrade too. :brows: This way you would still have some nice wheels and real braking power to. Upgrade to a dual diaphram booster from a 95-96 XJ for even better brakes. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhardzj Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 get the shafts and hubs off a 99+ WJ, it will carry everything you need, if the rear is a D44, all the better, it ain't hard to cut brackets off and weld new perches on... hummm... :hmm: you know that might work.. the wj is a grand right? Yep. I've tossed the idea of getting the rear 8.25 from a dodge van or a Dakota or something, and buying new hubs, and moving up in the bolt patters, but hubs are crazy expensive, and I personally wouldn't really want to swap in a used one, beyond a trail spare to get home with. If you do move to the 5x5 setup, you should do a writeup, I think it would be a first, and not all that tough of a job. All new Jeeps, I think are that pattern, but I'm not sure on the libby, it might be the only one left with 5x4.5... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 get the shafts and hubs off a 99+ WJ, it will carry everything you need, if the rear is a D44, all the better, it ain't hard to cut brackets off and weld new perches on... hummm... :hmm: you know that might work.. the wj is a grand right? Yep. I've tossed the idea of getting the rear 8.25 from a dodge van or a Dakota or something, and buying new hubs, and moving up in the bolt patters, but hubs are crazy expensive, and I personally wouldn't really want to swap in a used one, beyond a trail spare to get home with. If you do move to the 5x5 setup, you should do a writeup, I think it would be a first, and not all that tough of a job. All new Jeeps, I think are that pattern, but I'm not sure on the libby, it might be the only one left with 5x4.5... You would need a Jeep axle or adapters. Dakotas are 5 on 4.5" or 6 lug and B vans are 5 on 5.5" I would reuse hubs if they are low milage and from a rearend hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 get the shafts and hubs off a 99+ WJ, it will carry everything you need, if the rear is a D44, all the better, it ain't hard to cut brackets off and weld new perches on... hummm... :hmm: you know that might work.. the wj is a grand right? Yep. I've tossed the idea of getting the rear 8.25 from a dodge van or a Dakota or something, and buying new hubs, and moving up in the bolt patters, but hubs are crazy expensive, and I personally wouldn't really want to swap in a used one, beyond a trail spare to get home with. If you do move to the 5x5 setup, you should do a writeup, I think it would be a first, and not all that tough of a job. All new Jeeps, I think are that pattern, but I'm not sure on the libby, it might be the only one left with 5x4.5... I would do a write-up but Ill be making the spacers on a mill. I don't know if that will help anybody.. I will draw it out on cad and post the drawings,, that may help someone in the future. I'm going to seriously look into the wj axle swap though,, might find something ,, IDK have ta' look around. The thing is my truck is 2wd,,,,,,,,,, for now that is :brows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 get the shafts and hubs off a 99+ WJ, it will carry everything you need, if the rear is a D44, all the better, it ain't hard to cut brackets off and weld new perches on... hummm... :hmm: you know that might work.. the wj is a grand right? Yep. I've tossed the idea of getting the rear 8.25 from a dodge van or a Dakota or something, and buying new hubs, and moving up in the bolt patters, but hubs are crazy expensive, and I personally wouldn't really want to swap in a used one, beyond a trail spare to get home with. If you do move to the 5x5 setup, you should do a writeup, I think it would be a first, and not all that tough of a job. All new Jeeps, I think are that pattern, but I'm not sure on the libby, it might be the only one left with 5x4.5... I would do a write-up but Ill be making the spacers on a mill. I don't know if that will help anybody.. I will draw it out on cad and post the drawings,, that may help someone in the future. I'm going to seriously look into the wj axle swap though,, might find something ,, IDK have ta' look around. The thing is my truck is 2wd,,,,,,,,,, for now that is :brows: The WJ knuckle /brake swap works on 2wd axles also. You don't want a WJ front axle since it is low pinion for when you go 4x4, use a '97 or newer high pinion D30 4cyl XJ axle with 4.10 gears and 297 u-joints. Better yet find front and rear axles from a 07 Rubi next generation D44 rear and a HP D44 front with 4.10 gears and lockers. Whatever you do don't use a D44 with an aluminum center section, they are junk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 lil confused... you say the wj's knuckle/brake wil fit on the front? do i have to find a 2wd wj or just swap in a 4wd drive knuckle?? I got the look for a 4:10 d30 with 4cyl from a 97+ xj,, what do the 297 u-joints look like? when you say next gen d44 rear from a 07 Rubicon whats did they change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 lil confused... you say the wj's knuckle/brake wil fit on the front? do i have to find a 2wd wj or just swap in a 4wd drive knuckle?? I got the look for a 4:10 d30 with 4cyl from a 97+ xj,, what do the 297 u-joints look like? when you say next gen d44 rear from a 07 Rubicon whats did they change? Err, I'm interested, and confused also. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 lil confused... you say the wj's knuckle/brake wil fit on the front? do i have to find a 2wd wj or just swap in a 4wd drive knuckle?? I got the look for a 4:10 d30 with 4cyl from a 97+ xj,, what do the 297 u-joints look like? when you say next gen d44 rear from a 07 Rubicon whats did they change? You use knuckles out. you do need an outer axle unless your 2wd axle is the type with hub bearings then you can use your stub shafts. all 97 and newer XJ axles have 297 u-joints. I forget what they changed on the new axles I would have to search to find out. I'm swapping in a '77HP D44 and a rear 9" axle so I wasn't to concerned with the changes. I do know they made them stronger and went with the 5 on 5" bolt pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 lil confused... you say the wj's knuckle/brake wil fit on the front? do i have to find a 2wd wj or just swap in a 4wd drive knuckle?? I got the look for a 4:10 d30 with 4cyl from a 97+ xj,, what do the 297 u-joints look like? when you say next gen d44 rear from a 07 Rubicon whats did they change? You use knuckles out. you do need an outer axle unless your 2wd axle is the type with hub bearings then you can use your stub shafts. all 97 and newer XJ axles have 297 u-joints. I forget what they changed on the new axles I would have to search to find out. I'm swapping in a '77HP D44 and a rear 9" axle so I wasn't to concerned with the changes. I do know they made them stronger and went with the 5 on 5" bolt pattern. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Before you spend any more money, look into the brand new JK Rubicon axles being sold by places like 4wheeldrive hardware (4wd.com). They have the 5 on 5" pattern and have 4.10s in them. I don't think they have lockers though and you'll likely have to weld your front bracketry onto them, but it's hard to beat the price for complete and brand new axles. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 Before you spend any more money, look into the brand new JK Rubicon axles being sold by places like 4wheeldrive hardware (4wd.com). They have the 5 on 5" pattern and have 4.10s in them. I don't think they have lockers though and you'll likely have to weld your front bracketry onto them, but it's hard to beat the price for complete and brand new axles. :D IDK Pete the only thing I found was the complete axle for 1300,,, for front or rear. On another note, I found out the offset is around 44.45 on those wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Before you spend any more money, look into the brand new JK Rubicon axles being sold by places like 4wheeldrive hardware (4wd.com). They have the 5 on 5" pattern and have 4.10s in them. I don't think they have lockers though and you'll likely have to weld your front bracketry onto them, but it's hard to beat the price for complete and brand new axles. :D IDK Pete the only thing I found was the complete axle for 1300,,, for front or rear. On another note, I found out the offset is around 44.45 on those wheels. $1300 is a good price for a brand-spankin'-new complete M44 axle. But I guess if it's out of the budget, it's out of the budget. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 Before you spend any more money, look into the brand new JK Rubicon axles being sold by places like 4wheeldrive hardware (4wd.com). They have the 5 on 5" pattern and have 4.10s in them. I don't think they have lockers though and you'll likely have to weld your front bracketry onto them, but it's hard to beat the price for complete and brand new axles. :D IDK Pete the only thing I found was the complete axle for 1300,,, for front or rear. On another note, I found out the offset is around 44.45 on those wheels. $1300 is a good price for a brand-spankin'-new complete M44 axle. But I guess if it's out of the budget, it's out of the budget. :( deff out of the budget!! :cry: I'm going to make the adapters and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhardzj Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 4wd Hubs. I compared the hubs off an XJ, and a WJ in advance, and they are the same size knuckle side mounting surface and everything except the wheel mounting surface. I'm not sure if the didge van has the same width axle in the back or not, so your on your own for finding that out, or at least until I decide to go forth with the effort some day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 4wd Hubs. I compared the hubs off an XJ, and a WJ in advance, and they are the same size knuckle side mounting surface and everything except the wheel mounting surface. I'm not sure if the didge van has the same width axle in the back or not, so your on your own for finding that out, or at least until I decide to go forth with the effort some day... really... I was thinking maybe I could change the front hubs ( I said rotors in the first post..:nuts: ) So let me get this clear,, just go and buy the front hubs off 99 up Grand (wj) and bolt them on... ?? I saw a write-up on 4x4 wire where someone changed the knuckles and all with the big a$$ twin piston calipers,, those brake calipers where pure beef. looked good, but if I can get the front hubs and rotors for the 5x5 pattern I could use the adapters only on the rear, until something else was located..... I'd love to go with the jk axles but can't fork over that kind of cash right now. I'm doing the front brakes right now so I may just remove the hub assy and take it to the dealer to see if I can match them up side by side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 You could just redrill the front hub/rotors and the rear axles/drums. Dual pattern rear axles are common and doing the hubs shouldn't be a big deal. The drums and rotors are easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 You could just redrill the front hub/rotors and the rear axles/drums. Dual pattern rear axles are common and doing the hubs shouldn't be a big deal. The drums and rotors are easy. Think theres enough material there to go 2.5,, from center 5 times ? The bolt pattern is measured from center right, or put it like this,,, center of hub to center of stud gives you the radius then x2, or is it measured from center of one stud to the center to the next stud? That would be the least expensive way to go.... I just wonder if its going to leave enough metal on the OD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 The bolt pattern is a 5" circle that is the centered on the axle or hub(2.5"radius). You will only be moving the studs out 1/4" on each side. Just center the new holes in between the original holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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