Steering rack and pinion

[silvertwinkiehobo]

I'd like to know, insofar as larger tires, airing said tires down for soft terrain offroading, what's the comparison between the original MJ box vs. the ZJ box? Of course, these will all be opinions, and will be considered as such.

[Eagle]

On 4/23/2020 at 3:56 PM, AZJeff said:

 

Now that I have heard the ZJ is superior to the original MJ/XJ box, this interests me too.   I would be interested to hear more of the sucess of those who dropped in a ZJ box in their machine.

 

I did the ZJ box swap in the 2001 XJ. I wasn't unhappy with it, but I also didn't get an "OH, WOW!" feeling from it, either. The old box had a lot of slop over center, and it was bad enough that it couldn't be adjusted out. The ZJ box eliminated the slop over center. Other than that, to be honest, I didn't think it drove any different than my two 2000 XJs.

 

The difference in ratio, in practical terms, is 3-1/2 turns lock-to-lock for the XJ/MJ 14:1 box and 3 turns lock-to-lock for the ZJ 12.7:1 box. That means with the stock box, from straight ahead, you have to turn the steering wheel 1-3/4 turns to hit the steering stop. With the ZJ box, it's 1-1/2 turns. That's just not much of a difference.

 

If I were buying a new box from Borgeson, I would ask if they can do one in a 10:1 ratio. I would especially ask about that if I had a long wheebase MJ.

 

 

[AZJeff]

17 hours ago, Eagle said:

 

I did the ZJ box swap in the 2001 XJ. I wasn't unhappy with it, but I also didn't get an "OH, WOW!" feeling from it, either. The old box had a lot of slop over center, and it was bad enough that it couldn't be adjusted out. Thge ZJ box eliminated the slop over center. Other than that, to be honest, I didn't think it drove any different than my two 2000 XJs.

 

The difference in ratio, in practical terms, is 3-1/2 turns lock-to-lock for the XJ/MJ 14:1 box and 3 turns lock-to-lock for the ZJ 12.7:1 box. That means with the stock box, from straight ahead, you have to turn the steering wheel 1-3/4 turns to hit the steering stop. With the ZJ box, it's 1-1/2 turns. That's just not much of a difference.

 

If I were buying a new box from Borgeson, I would ask if they can do one in a 10:1 ratio. I would especially ask about that if I had a long wheebase MJ.

Good to know, thanks.

[omega_rugal]

which is the best upgrade in the strenght departament?

[pago cruiser]

Thread resurrection time again...

 

Just got off the phone with Borgesen - they do NOT make a 88-92 Comanche, nor a 84-01 Cherokee, nor 93-98 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) new steering boxes.

Nor do they manufacture replacement gearsets if you wanted to rebuild your own.

Nor do they have any current plans to do so.

 

It would appear that all this generation Comanches and Cherokees are pretty much stuck with whatever gearsets are out in the wild right now, in either JY or Reman options.

In Remans, we just have to trust the vendor QC process to discard gearsets that are beyond spec.

And cross your fingers...maybe.

 

Bummer.   

[Minuit]

5 minutes ago, pago cruiser said:

Thread resurrection time again...

 

Just got off the phone with Borgesen - they do NOT make a 88-92 Comanche, nor a 84-01 Cherokee, nor 93-98 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) new steering boxes.

Nor do they manufacture replacement gearsets if you wanted to rebuild your own.

Nor do they have any current plans to do so.

 

It would appear that all this generation Comanches and Cherokees are pretty much stuck with whatever gearsets are out in the wild right now, in either JY or Reman options.

In Remans, we just have to trust the vendor QC process to discard gearsets that are beyond spec.

And cross your fingers...maybe.

 

Bummer.   

While they might say that, it is my current understanding that, as long as the input shaft, output shaft, and line connections are the same, a Saginaw 800 steering box is a Saginaw 800 steering box and it'll fit whether or not they say it will.

 

Borgeson advertises their box as fitting Chevrolet S10s 1982-1993. If you look up a steering box for an S10, many rebuilders (yes, I know they aren't the most reliable source) list the same part number for Jeeps and S10s.

 

So my guess is it'll work just fine, it's just nobody has tried it yet. Who wants to be the first?

[pago cruiser]

Fascinating.

I just called Robert at Borgeson back, and he indeed was not aware of the S10 compatibility.

 

Asked him to send me tech specs and dims.  He did say that it was entirely possible, but thought that that if the majority of specs and bolt pattern were identical, the other item might be connecting to the stock steering column length; but that would probably not be a deal breaker, as the "later" model collapsible shafts might take up the difference.   

 

Funny that when we were talking about the change from the "Impaler design" to the collapsible shafts, I actually remembered when that occurred in high school. One of the better things that the NHTSA implemented.   Lots less impalement deaths since then...

When I receive Borgeson's data I will try to get ahold of EagleScout526 and see if he can get any factory spec data to compare.

[pago cruiser]

Just received the Borgeson info and sent onto EagleScout 526.

 

Also just did a check on the Red-Head site for their  steering boxes - they seem to have a pretty good reputation.

 

Looked up part numbers for the MJ, the 93-98 ZJ, and the 82-04 S-10.  

As Minutit indicated, all the same part number, with the exact same options! 

Options being either standard (3 turn) or quick turn (2.5) or rock crawler (4 turn) gearset.

 

I may just bite the bullet and be the first on my block...

 

 

 

 

Redhead 84 - 01 Comanche.pdf Redhead 93 - 98 ZJ.pdf Redhead 82 - 2004 S10.pdf

[pago cruiser]

Spoke again to Brian (not Robert as I indicated earlier) at Borgeson.

He suggested Summit or others to obtain their stuff.

They do NOT offer any other ratios than the 12.7, which equates to 3.175 turns lock to lock.

 

So.

Borgeson purchased Saginaw, along with their production equipment.

Borgeson ONLY offers the "stock" 3.175 turns gearing, lock to lock.

Others (like Red Head) offer alternate gearing, both 2.5 and 4 turns.

Brian's comments were that they must have found another source for these alternate gearsets.

So unless Red Head (and others) are mixing and matching (used) gearsets from customers Cores, it may be that some of the gearsets within Reman Boxes may actually be new.