Tire rotation

[Eagle]

For a great many years I always did 4-tire rotations, preferring to keep my spare new so when it was time to buy new tires I only had to buy four. In recent years, though, tires last longer, and the manufacturers drop tire models. For example, the Goodyear tires that came on my 2000 XJ Sport were Wrangler RT/S (I think). Whatever tire it was -- it's no longer available. So on the new XJs I have been doing 5-tire rotations.

 

However, through a combination of blunders (some on my part, some on the part of the local Walmart auto shop) I recently came into possession of a set of five additional, matching alloy wheels and two more of the same tire -- both previously only used as spares, never been on the road.

 

These tires are now twenty years old, but in good (perfect) shape. Most local tire shops won't even touch a tire that's more than ten years old, for liability reasons. Since I can't match them, there's no point in trying to keep the two "new" spares unused, so I'm thinking of going into a 6-tire rotation rather than 5. The 5-tire rotation pattern is as shown here;

 

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Since the XJ is a rear-wheel /4-wheel drive, I have been using the rearward cross pattern, on the right. My proposed new plan is to bring one of the spare spares into the rotation (the other is on a steel rim, so that will remain out of the pattern) by moving it into the spare, then following the diagram except that the left front will go to the garage rather than to the spare in the vehicle. That will allow me to clean up that tire and wheel at my leisure before the next rotation.

 

Has anyone else ever used a 6-tire rotation pattern? Make sense?

[Pete M]

a 20 year old tire is the perfect candidate for a permanent spare.   

[RustyRodder]

Yeah, I would not trust a 20-year old tire for regular driving.

Or really even a spare- friends MJ had his original spare blow out after 1/2 mile of 25mph (Yes, properly inflated)

[Jeep Driver]

Front to rear only, no cross rotation. 

 

I rotate once in a life cycle, then replace. 

 

 

Get new tires........can't believe this is even being discussed. 

[Eagle]

These two "spare spares" don't seem to have ever been exposed to sunlight. Sidewalls and treads show zero cracking of any kind. I keep them in the garage, and spray them occasionally with Tire Foam, which leaves a light film of silicone on the surface. I trust them for daily driving. I don't think I would want them for a cross-country trip in the middle of summer and a full payload.

[Jeep Driver]

I've had my Nissan for 2.5 years now, on my 3rd set of tires. 

 

Having ridden sport bikes- never rode on a tire more than three years old......apples to oranges, but.........all tires lose their bite with age. 

 

Here-

Quote

 

One of the groups leading the fight against aging tires is Safety Research & Strategies Inc. and its president, Sean Kane. As of June 2, 2008, SRS says it had documented 159 incidents in which tires older than six years experienced tread or belt separations resulting in crashes. These incidents were the cause of 128 fatalities and 168 injuries, according to SRS.

The group has been pushing for the National Highway and Transportation Authority and automakers to issue recommendations to replace tires that are six years or older, regardless of use. In 2006, Ford Motor Company – still smarting from the Firestone tire fiasco of 2000 – added a six-year tire replacement recommendation, regardless of tread wear, to its Web site and owner’s manuals. DaimlerChrysler quickly followed Ford’s lead.

 

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2010/02/16/tread-carefully-with-older-tires

 

 

I don't think I've ever had a set of tires more than three years on anything I've ever owned.

 

I do a lot of stupid things but this ain't one of 'em. 

[Eagle]

2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said:

Get new tires........can't believe this is even being discussed. 

 

If you were trying to live on social security and put a daughter through college you might believe.

 

Now ... I didn't ask about tire age, I asked if anyone had any thoughts about the 6-tire rotation. Please address the question and leave the extraneous comments for the peanut gallery.

[Pete M]

seems like a 6 tire rotation is just a 5 with an extra tire that steps in from the garage while another goes into the garage. 

[Jeep Driver]

5 minutes ago, Eagle said:

 

If you were trying to live on social security and put a daughter through college you might believe.

 

Now ... I didn't ask about tire age, I asked if anyone had any thoughts about the 6-tire rotation. Please address the question and leave the extraneous comments for the peanut gallery.

No, sorry. 

 

You introduced 20 year old tires into your question, you did, not me. 

 

I have no idea about your convoluted 6 tire rotation system. 

 

What you are doing is dangerous, to yourself and others.

 

If you cannot afford new tires......don't' drive. 

 

Don't insult me with peanut gallery statements. 

[gogmorgo]

There are Lemons racers running around on 30+ year old tires. There's one 80's Cadillac out there where the original spare looked good, so they ran it on one of the front wheels more as a joke than anything else, and when it eventually blew apart they were going to replace it, except after hundreds of laps it's still fine.

Tire degradation is almost entirely due to prolonged UV exposure. If it's been under a trunk floor or some other sort of cover and hasn't been sitting in daylight then there's likely nothing wrong with it. Even the quoted articles goes on to say there are people running around on old tires that are totally okay, just keep an eye out for cracks or anything and keep them inflated properly, and this straight from the tire distributors whose interest is in selling you new tires.

Also, suddenly the guy who refuses to use a torque wrench cares about safety 

 

But back on topic. 

I'm not really a fan of the five-tire rotation. In part it's not very often I have a spare that matches the rest of the set, but that's another issue. Having a tire that isn't as worn down as the others means it's a slightly larger diameter, and this puts more stress on your differentials. Especially if you're incorporating a brand new tire into a rotation of half-worn tires. The more often you rotate tires the less of a problem this could be, more frequent rotations means less change in treadwear. 

If you're on a tight budget it can make your tires last marginally longer, but if force to put off spending money on tires until it's an absolute necessity, then now you're forced to buy five tires instead of four, or else run around with a crappy worn-out spare. You don't generally get to choose the weather or location to have a flat, so it's better in my mind to have a spare in good condition than to have to trust a craptacular one to get me where I need to go without backup. 

If I was doing a six-tire rotation, I think I would want to rotate out two tires at a time. Doing just one at a time would mean the sixth tire sits out two full rotation intervals before hitting the road at probably a noticeably larger diameter than the rest. 

 

In the heavy duty world there are rules (and laws) for not only tread wear but also matching diameters, not just between a pair of duals where a larger tire will take more load and potentially overload it, but also across an axle which means the axle doesn't sit horizontal and the tires are no longer perpendicular to the road surface, and also between driven axles, where it effectively alters final drive ratios.

[Eagle]

10 hours ago, gogmorgo said:

I'm not really a fan of the five-tire rotation. In part it's not very often I have a spare that matches the rest of the set, but that's another issue. Having a tire that isn't as worn down as the others means it's a slightly larger diameter, and this puts more stress on your differentials. Especially if you're incorporating a brand new tire into a rotation of half-worn tires. The more often you rotate tires the less of a problem this could be, more frequent rotations means less change in treadwear. 

If you're on a tight budget it can make your tires last marginally longer, but if force to put off spending money on tires until it's an absolute necessity, then now you're forced to buy five tires instead of four, or else run around with a crappy worn-out spare. You don't generally get to choose the weather or location to have a flat, so it's better in my mind to have a spare in good condition than to have to trust a craptacular one to get me where I need to go without backup. 

If I was doing a six-tire rotation, I think I would want to rotate out two tires at a time. Doing just one at a time would mean the sixth tire sits out two full rotation intervals before hitting the road at probably a noticeably larger diameter than the rest. 

 

 

The difference in diameter doesn't put any more stress on the differential than going around a corner. In fact, that's the whole point of a differential -- to allow one wheel on an axle to rotate at a different speed than the opposing wheel.

 

I used to be in the school of thought that preserved the spare so I would only have to buy four tires instead of five. But that was when you could count on the same tire still being available when you bought a new set. Today that's generally not the case.

 

The six-tire rotation I'll be using won't have any tire sit out two rotations. I'm altering the recommended pattern so the left front doesn't go to the spare, it goes to the garage. The one that's in the garage goes to the spare in the vehicle. Well, okay ... I guess you could call that sitting out two rotations but I don't see it as making a major difference. On my wife's 2000 XJ Classic, the factory tires went something like 80,000 miles using a 5-tire rotation. I rotated every 10,000 miles, so without doing any mental gymnastics for precision I'd say each tire probably saw 65,000 or 70,000 miles. If there had been a 6th tire in the rotation pattern, I probably would have gone 100,000 before needing new tires.