Passenger tire toed out

[Anteru]

So i noticed my 88 Comanche pulls to the left. After getting it as straight as possible, i checked and it appears the passenger tire is toed out a little. I did an alignment, got it even on both sides, and adjusted the drag link so the wheel was straight. just took it for a drive and it is still pulling to the left. its as if i didnt do anything as far as an alignment goes. 

 

Is there something else that could be causing the passenger wheel to pull? 

[Strokermjcomanche]

You got it close but a TRUE wheel alignment is best . Caster / camber is important also .

[ggcnash]

Two 48" levels and a couple c clamps remove tires put on jack stands, clamp levels and center it with rotors. Now you have definite straight edge 2' in front 2' foot behind, measure from inside to inside front rear center, and align. This was the method I used then took it to pep boys for alignment couple weeks later (was driving great only went b/c of everything read said to) guy put it on the machine took it off and drove it back to me said it was perfect no charge!

[HOrnbrod]

OP, if it's pulling to the left, it's pulling to the drivers side.

 

Got an angle finder? You can check the caster angle by sticking it on top of the L & R upper ball joint flats and check the positive angle. You must be sitting on level ground. It should be ~7.5* on both sides.

[Lee21490]

Could be the tire. I've had an old set of tires that caused a pull one way, Did the oposite way after i rotated them lol

[Eagle]

It could be the tires, it could be tire pressure, it could be uneven wear on the tires, it could be caster and/or camber -- it could even be that the rear axle isn't square to the chassis and is trying to drive the body in a circle.

 

There's no shortage of things to investigate.

[Anteru]

Could be the tire. I've had an old set of tires that caused a pull one way, Did the oposite way after i rotated them lol

my next step is to swap the front tires and see if it keeps pullin.

[Anteru]

OP, if it's pulling to the left, it's pulling to the drivers side.

 

Got an angle finder? You can check the caster angle by sticking it on top of the L & R upper ball joint flats and check the positive angle. You must be sitting on level ground. It should be ~7.5* on both sides.

 

i do not but my brother used to be a mechanic and has no shortage of tools. perhaps i should bribe him with a 6 pack of IPA :)

[Anteru]

It could be the tires, it could be tire pressure, it could be uneven wear on the tires, it could be caster and/or camber -- it could even be that the rear axle isn't square to the chassis and is trying to drive the body in a circle.

 

There's no shortage of things to investigate.

even just eyeballing it i can tell that the passenger tire toes out just a little. while i had it on jack stands i inspected for worn ball joins and bearings and no wobblyness. so at least i know that isnt the problem.

[ggcnash]

 

It could be the tires, it could be tire pressure, it could be uneven wear on the tires, it could be caster and/or camber -- it could even be that the rear axle isn't square to the chassis and is trying to drive the body in a circle.

 

There's no shortage of things to investigate.

even just eyeballing it i can tell that the passenger tire toes out just a little. while i had it on jack stands i inspected for worn ball joins and bearings and no wobblyness. so at least i know that isnt the problem.

Pics please, when you say you can see it toed out are you meaning the front wheel is a little turned?

[Rockfrog]

If one wheel looks to be toed out, the toe in is incorrect. And the steering wheel is (should be) off center.

This usually caused by uneven ground, not starting from straight or simple mismeasuring during a driveway alignment.

Not knocking you, happens to me plenty as my driveway is far from perfect. I've actually started using a specific parking lot for my home alignments for the above reasons.

It is crucial to an at home alignment to have the wheels straight, and ground flat and fairly level. If you can't get those two, everything else will be out. If the wheels are not straight to the direction of travel from the start you will be setting toe on one side of Center or the other. Hence it looks like one wheel is trying to go the wrong way.

Find a flat parking lot and drive 50' letting the wheel do it's thing. Then check the toe-in (tie-rod).

Adjust, then without moving, re-enter the steering wheel (drag link).

 

Also a good idea to check rear axle position if suspect.

[Eagle]

even just eyeballing it i can tell that the passenger tire toes out just a little. while i had it on jack stands i inspected for worn ball joins and bearings and no wobblyness. so at least i know that isnt the problem.

I see a problem right there. You don't understand wheel alignment.

 

It is not possible for the passenger tire to toe out -- a little or a lot. The toe specification is a measure of the distance between the two tires, and it has nothing to do with the vehicle body, centerline, or side. The theoretical ideal is zero toe. If the fronts of the tires are farther apart than the rears, they are toed out. If the rears are father apart than the fronts, they are toed in. This is measured directly between the tires, or by high-priced equipment that takes angle measurements and computes the toe (in or out).

 

Zero is ideal, but that means zero when driving down the road with the friction between the tires and the road pushing against all the components of the front end, each of which has some minimal amount of slop. To allow for that, we build in a small amount of toe-in when doing a static alignment, figuring that the road friction will take up the slop and the result will be close to zero on the road. Doing a shade-tree, tape measure alignment, we typically look for 1/16" to 1/8" of toe-IN -- the distance between the fronts of the tires should be less than the distance between the rears.

 

You adjust the toe-in to spec, then move the vehicle until it's moving straight forward and back. Then if the steering wheel isn't centered, you adjust the drag link to center the wheel.

 

Toe rarely causes pulling, because toe is a symmetrical setting. Pull is caused by uneven tire pressure, mismatched tires, sagging springs, caster, or camber.

 

Oh -- and you absolutely cannot tell by eyeballing it if the tires are toed in or out, unless the amount is massive. The flares are not parallel to the vehicle centerline, and the flare edges are the natural visual reference. It's deceptive. You MUST measure.

[Anteru]

 

even just eyeballing it i can tell that the passenger tire toes out just a little. while i had it on jack stands i inspected for worn ball joins and bearings and no wobblyness. so at least i know that isnt the problem.

I see a problem right there. You don't understand wheel alignment.

 

It is not possible for the passenger tire to toe out -- a little or a lot. The toe specification is a measure of the distance between the two tires, and it has nothing to do with the vehicle body, centerline, or side. The theoretical ideal is zero toe. If the fronts of the tires are farther apart than the rears, they are toed out. If the rears are father apart than the fronts, they are toed in. This is measured directly between the tires, or by high-priced equipment that takes angle measurements and computes the toe (in or out).

 

Zero is ideal, but that means zero when driving down the road with the friction between the tires and the road pushing against all the components of the front end, each of which has some minimal amount of slop. To allow for that, we build in a small amount of toe-in when doing a static alignment, figuring that the road friction will take up the slop and the result will be close to zero on the road. Doing a shade-tree, tape measure alignment, we typically look for 1/16" to 1/8" of toe-IN -- the distance between the fronts of the tires should be less than the distance between the rears.

 

You adjust the toe-in to spec, then move the vehicle until it's moving straight forward and back. Then if the steering wheel isn't centered, you adjust the drag link to center the wheel.

 

Toe rarely causes pulling, because toe is a symmetrical setting. Pull is caused by uneven tire pressure, mismatched tires, sagging springs, caster, or camber.

 

Oh -- and you absolutely cannot tell by eyeballing it if the tires are toed in or out, unless the amount is massive. The flares are not parallel to the vehicle centerline, and the flare edges are the natural visual reference. It's deceptive. You MUST measure.

 

after quite a bit of research and some help from my brother, we managed to get it to the point where it is pulling very little. my goal here is to get it drivable until i can put some better tires on it (at which point i will pay for an alignment if it isnt included, which it usually is at costco) my brother said the same thing about my lack of knowledge. I am a computer nerd and vehicle mechanics are a new concept to me, so please be gentle. 

[Anteru]

 

It could be the tires, it could be tire pressure, it could be uneven wear on the tires, it could be caster and/or camber -- it could even be that the rear axle isn't square to the chassis and is trying to drive the body in a circle.

 

There's no shortage of things to investigate.

even just eyeballing it i can tell that the passenger tire toes out just a little. while i had it on jack stands i inspected for worn ball joins and bearings and no wobblyness. so at least i know that isnt the problem.

 

i should have pointed out here that i did measure, a ton. did the string on jack stands method along with some levels strapped to the tires across the center. so much measuring and re-measuring. 

 

the end result isnt perfect by any means, but it does not immediately veer off to the left when i drive on a level road. there is an ever so slight pull now to the left, but its drivable until i get new tires. 

[Eagle]

i should have pointed out here that i did measure, a ton. did the string on jack stands method along with some levels strapped to the tires across the center. so much measuring and re-measuring.

You can't measure toe with the vehicle on jack stands, because things will change when the weight is on the tires and supported by the ball joints. Any adjustment you do on jack stands won't be accurate. You do it on flat, level ground with the wheels on the ground. Once you make an adjustment, you then roll the vehicle straight back a car length or two, then back to the original point and measure again. This is because the tire contact patch won't turn when you make the adjustment, resulting in the tie rod ends being under stress rather than in a somewhat neutral position. Rolling back and forth allows the tire contact patch to coincide with the new alignment.