after the paint project is lift?

[redwolf624]

ok so i'm slowly still fixin my MJ, i got a few oil leaks goin on that i'm fixing tomorrow. after i fix the oil leaks i plan on paintin it red again to get rid of the orange color from all the sun baked red; next i plan on lifting it but don't know the difference between long arm, shackle, add a leaf and all that, i do need new leaf springs and coils, i'm lookin at goin 3.5-4inches of lift but i'm also lookin for the best way to go since i gotta replace all the springs; also we all know i've talked about a 4wd converstion, if i lift my MJ while it's still 2wd will i be able to use the same lift when i'm 4wd?

 

Redwolf

[Minuit]

Let's make this easy and simple.

 

This is an XJ with long arms.

 

Notice that the lower control arms go all the way from the crossmember to the axle? When you lift your truck you screw up the stock suspension geometry. Long arms correct that.

 

Shackles are what attach one end of your leaf springs to the vehicle. It's easy to see them on this YJ:

 

When you add longer shackles you basically move the springs further away from the frame. Longer shackles produce lift, while shorter shackles lower the truck. This only applies to the rear, as you only have leaf springs in the rear.

 

When you do an add-a-leaf, you add one or more leaf springs to your existing pack. The springs you use have to somewhat match the MJ springs in length and arch to work well. Some manufacturers offer kits for this. The first result for "jeep comanche add a leaf" is a 3'' Rusty's kit for $265.

 

When you convert to 4wd you can use the exact same lift.

 

Fix your truck before you lift your truck. :thumbsup:

[nitroxsteve]

The same lift works for 2wd and 4wd so no problems there. I would go ahead and install the front axle for the 4wd conversion when you do the lift. This will keep you from doing everything twice

[dunnc1991]

Fix your truck before you lift your truck. :thumbsup:

 

This^. No sense putting thousands of dollars into a POS

[redwolf624]

Let's make this easy and simple.

 

This is an XJ with long arms.

 

Notice that the lower control arms go all the way from the crossmember to the axle? When you lift your truck you screw up the stock suspension geometry. Long arms correct that.

 

Shackles are what attach one end of your leaf springs to the vehicle. It's easy to see them on this YJ:

 

When you add longer shackles you basically move the springs further away from the frame. Longer shackles produce lift, while shorter shackles lower the truck. This only applies to the rear, as you only have leaf springs in the rear.

 

When you do an add-a-leaf, you add one or more leaf springs to your existing pack. The springs you use have to somewhat match the MJ springs in length and arch to work well. Some manufacturers offer kits for this. The first result for "jeep comanche add a leaf" is a 3'' Rusty's kit for $265.

 

When you convert to 4wd you can use the exact same lift.

 

Fix your truck before you lift your truck. :thumbsup:

thanks for the pics it really cleared things up but still some unansweared questions like shocks, coil springs and leaf spring, i've been told that if i lift my jeep i'll need to get different shocks, coil springs and add leafs to my leaf spring packs, with all of that (except for shocks) having to be replaced anyhow would it be a good idea just to by a complete set for a long arm rig since i have coil springs in the front?

 

The same lift works for 2wd and 4wd so no problems there. I would go ahead and install the front axle for the 4wd conversion when you do the lift. This will keep you from doing everything twice

that's great to know and i'll deffently do that, one less thing i'll have to do :)

 

Fix your truck before you lift your truck. :thumbsup:

 

This^. No sense putting thousands of dollars into a POS

trust me, i plan on fixing it first,

 

Redwolf

[Incommando]

When you decide to lift I think that the most important thing to know is what you are going to do with your truck after you lift it? Be brutally honest. If you WANT to make it a hardcore 'wheeler but in reality it is going to be 90/10 in favor of street driving that might be the way to go when looking at lifts. Although you can get a great ride and great articulation it is usually pretty pricey. A Clayton long arm, for example, is almost $1,000 just for the front arms & mounting cross member. You still have to get front springs, etc... & the entire rear lift. It is a great product but would an investment like this pay off for you in how you will actually use your truck? Or would the $100 front spacer/chevy shackle combo that gets you 2" of lift be enough for you?

 

Do you know for sure that your rear springs have to be replaced? That is a major investment. I am not a huge fan of add-a-leafs for weak springs. I have seen them crack the old leafs. If you go add-a-leaf try to get a "full length" version as they seem to support the original springs better and may prevent the other issue.  Making a "bastard pack" out of other leafs can be labor intensive and frustrating to get the right ride height but people who do it generally report a decent "factory-like" ride.

 

I would also do some research on companies before I used one. Rough Country in particular is one that gets singled out for a poor product repeatedly.

[redwolf624]

When you decide to lift I think that the most important thing to know is what you are going to do with your truck after you lift it? Be brutally honest. If you WANT to make it a hardcore 'wheeler but in reality it is going to be 90/10 in favor of street driving that might be the way to go when looking at lifts. Although you can get a great ride and great articulation it is usually pretty pricey. A Clayton long arm, for example, is almost $1,000 just for the front arms & mounting cross member. You still have to get front springs, etc... & the entire rear lift. It is a great product but would an investment like this pay off for you in how you will actually use your truck? Or would the $100 front spacer/chevy shackle combo that gets you 2" of lift be enough for you?

 

Do you know for sure that your rear springs have to be replaced? That is a major investment. I am not a huge fan of add-a-leafs for weak springs. I have seen them crack the old leafs. If you go add-a-leaf try to get a "full length" version as they seem to support the original springs better and may prevent the other issue.  Making a "bastard pack" out of other leafs can be labor intensive and frustrating to get the right ride height but people who do it generally report a decent "factory-like" ride.

 

I would also do some research on companies before I used one. Rough Country in particular is one that gets singled out for a poor product repeatedly.

i was thinkin like a 3" maybe 3.5" lift just to have that extra umph of ground clearance, bigger tires and of course deeper mud holes without fluidin my comanche's floors out. i know my leafs are pretty warn and have been told by my state inspector i should get them replaced before they become really bad; i know for a fact this is by far gonna be one of my most exspencive projects, i know i'll be spending atleast 1500 easy on this just because of all the stuff i'm replacin when i do this,

 

Redwolf

[Incommando]

If you were planning on spending it anyway then new leafs are the way to go.

[redwolf624]

If you were planning on spending it anyway then new leafs are the way to go.

alright, any suggestions as to what brand and what style lift, weather it's long arm or somethin else,

 

Redwolf

[dunnc1991]

Long arms are not necessary on a 3 inch lift. I've always been a fan of RE, but there is a lot of opinions on suspension manufacturers.

[Incommando]

I used all RE stuff for my front lift to match my rear SOA. I am happy with it. For MJ's my only experience is with RE or Rough Country and the RE is head and shoulders above the Rough Country in ride and flex. I have not used enough personally to say what the best stuff out there would be but I would use RE again without hesitation.

[mnkyboy]

 

RE is head and shoulders above the Rough Country in ride and flex.

Here is RC short arms and coils, if your head and shoulders ahead of this your flex must be amazing.

[Incommando]

The 5.5" short arm RE stuff on my '91 outperforms the off the shelf 4.5" RC kit I put on my '88 and rides much better. Your suspension appears to be more than an off the shelf 4.5" RC kit. You may note that I included the disclaimer about this being from " my only experience." I also included that my recommendations were from my personal experiences. So tell me your experience when you had RE stuff on there so that you know it doesn't outperform the RC pieces in that pic? :)

[mnkyboy]

There are not many lift brands that I haven't messed with or driven on.

 

I've driven RE long and short arm rigs and neither really perform any better then the equivalent lift from another company.

Currently I have about 8 Jeeps sitting at the shop with varying suspension set ups,4 of them are MJs and different Jeeps are coming through all the time.

[Incommando]

Ahhhh... Are you still using RC short arms & springs with the unusual and apparently successful set-up of using custom control arm drop brackets to increase your flex?  Not exactly an apples to apples comparison there but it obviously works very well. Kudos. But one should not expect that flex with an RC or any kit of 3"-3.5" inches or so, should they? 

 

Maybe it is that the biggest difference between the RC stuff that I got in the kit and the RE stuff a pieced together is in the RE spring rates being accidentally better  for my particular application. Either way if I can find the pics and get them scanned I can demonstrate the diffidence on an RTI ramp between my '91 RE and '88 RC where both front suspensions use the same exact factory geometry. The biggest difference between the two is the 1" spring height difference. 

 

And an oops: my fixed LCA's are Rusty's not RE as I got them NIB used for cheap as part of a package deal.

[Incommando]

 

If you were planning on spending it anyway then new leafs are the way to go.

alright, any suggestions as to what brand and what style lift, weather it's long arm or somethin else,

 

Redwolf

 

After looking back over your posts I would probably look at lift of about 4.5" that includes rear leaf packs. Although it happens both ways I hear more people wishing they had gone higher and only spent for lift parts one time than I hear people saying they went too high.  4.5" is a very popular lift height with lots of positive feedback.

 

Here is a good example of what I am talking about getting:

http://www.rustysoffroad.com/jeep-suspension/jeep-suspension-lift-kits/mj-comanche-86-93-jeep-suspension-lift-kits/rustys-mj-comanche-4-5-spring-pack-kit.html

[mnkyboy]

That is the set up in the pic, its all currently coming off for a custom 3 link.

 

The RC parts on the truck have worked well on that particular build.

[Incommando]

That is the set up in the pic, its all currently coming off for a custom 3 link.

 

The RC parts on the truck have worked well on that particular build.

They do indeed. Feel free to send me those drop brackets...  :brows:

[Doc.]

When people ask me how much lift I always ask what size tires, and what are you going to do with it? Lets assume you are mainly going to street drive but want to do a little off road. 3 inch and 31's might be a good combo. If you have to replace leafs then go with lift leafs, do not go with stock ones and add on longer shackles, add a leaf, or anything goofy. Just keep it simple and spend a couple extras bucks right away so it will work long term. At 3 or more you will need shocks and when bumping up tire size go with a steering stabilizer too. Not a stock one, but one meant for off road use. At 3 inch and mild wheeling no need for longer brake lines (just relocate them) or longer control arms, caster can just be adjusted as needed. Basically 3 inch is the best bang for the buck.

 

On a Cherokee I've always gone 33's, 4.5 lift (with shocks and stabilizer), do not use the t-case drop brackets, throw away the sway bars, longer brake lines, cut out wheel openings, lockers, etc., and wheel with the best of them without re-gearing no problems. This still allows me to drive on the street without much issue. Without the t-case drop or doing a slip yoke eliminator there is a slight vibration as you get up to highway speed but no biggie in my opinion. There is no "need" for long arms and there are so many options there that is a discussion all on it's own.

 

If you were going 4.5 lift I'd vote for spring over on the rear and maybe just new stock leaves? I have not done this but see the logic in it.

 

If you go bigger than 33's or bigger than 4.5 lift you will have issues on road or off road and need to start spending money to cure issues that arise. More lift- drive line vibrations, steering issues, and gets tippy off camber. Bigger tires- even the 4.0 is maxed out and time to re-gear. Oh and u joints, etc. become to weak to handle the torque.

 

On my Comanche I went with 6 inch coils because I have the extra weight of a winch sitting there and I wanted the stiffer spring rate too. I also did a custom 3 link with track bar up front. I did coils and 4 link on rear, but mine was built for off road. When first built I did drive on street to town just because I could though.

 

I agree, swap in a 4wd axle while you're doing the lift.

 

On kind of a side note. I sell Rough country and have had several rigs of my own over the years and had no complaints with on road or off road. I don't know what "RE" is but I find it funny how some people will put down rough country and buy from another company not realizing that they just bought rough country parts that have been re- stickered. It's true. For example, rough country buys a box car full of leaf springs made in Canada and re-sells them to other smaller companies.

[Incommando]

RE-Rubicon Express. Formerly a stand-alone company it has since been absorbed by conglomerate Transamerica which makes/owns smittybuilt,pro comp, and dozens of other product lines. The also own quadratec and 4wd hardware as well as other mail-order houses. And people think they are competing against each other.... RE's reputation is so far not tarnished by the ownership change. Others have not fared as well.

 

I had always heard that 32's and 3.55's would make an XJ/MJ into a dog. I have not found this to be true, either. Both on-road and off-road this combo performs well. Is it optimal for off-road use? Not at all. But it is not a hard-core wheeler and I built it with that in mind, as you suggest. At 5.5" of lift and 32" tires I probably only sit .5 inch higher than a 33/4.5 combo so I am not much worried about that. Although I did go with an adjustable track bar and uppers to get the geometry back correct I have not encountered any other issues that I did not have with my 4.5" RC kit. Yet, anyway. And speaking of that kit:

 

My personal RC complaint, besides a harsh ride, was being IMHO ripped-off by RC. To support a CC supporter I purchased my kit through Hellscreek, an official RC dealer. I could have got about the same price elsewhere when discounted shipping available online was factored it but it was less then $10 difference. RC advertises that the kit contains certain items including extended sway bar links. Mine had none . I contacted Hellscreek and they verified that the links are listed and included. They try to make it right. RC tells them to pound salt. I call RC directly. They explain that although they do indeed list them on their website as well as on the packing list that came with the kit they do not actually include them and the advertising is just outdated. I found this to be more then slightly deceptive. They refused to honor their own website's promises. I have checked randomly in the intervening years and not once have these crook's changed their parts list to delete those links as being included in the 4.5" kit. Outdated advertising my @$$. When I posted my story on here there was no shortage of people who, like me, had personal stories ( not internet rumors) of being shafted by these shysters. There is also no shortage of people with personal experiences complaining about the ride quality of their kits. Can other individual pieces from RC  be okey-dokie? Maybe.  That is probably especially true of items that RC simply re-sales as with those "RC" springs from that Canadian manufacturer that makes many such rear springs for private label sales if I am correct. But I will never knowingly give those liars another dime and recommend that others do not, either. Your actual mileage may vary.