axle question!

[bottomline89]

Quick question.. can i do anything with these?

 

http://wichita.craigslist.org/pts/3187108936.html

[mvusse]

Lots of things you can do with them, but if you're planning to put them under your MJ you'd need a different transfer case because the pumpkin on the front axle is on the wrong side.

[NotMatt]

Yep, and that's an offset rear 44 as well... you could get away with running it, but you'll never be able to run a CV rear driveline.

 

Skip these.

[jimoshel]

Those would be nice if you had a empty MJ bod. That way you could install the axles and the proper transfer case, transmission and engine .

[bottomline89]

ok. thanks guys. i was just wondering because they looked like pretty good axles for a good price. are there any full size axles that work in mj's with a little modifications?

[Pete M]

what do you consider a "little modification"?

[bottomline89]

perches and mounts

[mvusse]

Later full size Wagoneers/Cherokees have a driver side drop front axle, but you would still have to modify the truck to use leaf springs, or the axle to use the coil sprung 4 link setup our trucks use. And they still have the 6 lug bolt pattern. That applies to pretty much any front axle unless it comes out of a MJ, XJ, ZJ ot TJ.

 

Not full size, but good axles that are around the same width for the rear and leaf sprung so easy to modify are

Dana 44 out of an MJ, XJ or TJ (were they optional on YJs?), Chrysler 8.25" out of XJs, especially the 29 spline ones from late 96 on, possibly KJ 8.25" (disc brakes), Ford Explorer 8.8 (~1" narrower, newer ones have disc brakes) and Isuzu Trooper Dana 44 (but have 6 lug axles).

 

Pretty much anything full size out there with the exception of the Jeeps will have axles in the 67"-69" range. I believe dually rear axles are narrower but I don't know how much.

[Comanche County]

If the wheels he's throwing in are aluminum then they're worth 80-100 bucks in scrap. The axles are good ones, even if you don't use them, at $100 bucks for everything, you'd make a profit scrapping them. But I wouldn't.

 

This is a great set of axles you can sell to someone running a D18 transfer case (the best case ever IMHO). I want to put a set of these in my next flat fender build. I'm always looking for these. The good thing about the rear axle is that it was under a Waggy/FSJ Cherokee with a Quadratrac TC and it has 30 spline axle shafts, that means post 1970. Most of the older offset D44s are 19 spline with two piece tapered axles. These can be redrilled to 5x5.5" to suit the CJ crowd too, they'd be perfect for a guy with an early CJ5 who wants wider axles or an 80s CJ7 where the owner wants to dump the AMC 20.

 

This is a good buy, I'd be all over it. You advertise these on the CJ2a or 3a pages and they'll sell like hot cakes if you don't ask too much.

[Pete M]

perches and mounts

 

 

what is your end goal? tire size? wheeling preferences? is there enough budget for regearing? lockers?

[bottomline89]

end goal: 8" long arm kit, 35" wrangler mt/r w/ Kevlar, 4.88 gears and i haven't decided on lockers because i'm getting it just big enough to be a great rig for what i do but i can still use as a DD

[mvusse]

A 29 spline Chrysler 8.25" is plenty big enough for 35" tires, cheap, easy to find, and would just need perches and shock mounts.

 

Front axle is a different story. Even the larger u joints don't hold up to 35" tires. I've tried Duralast Gold (junk), Neapco Brute Force (junk) Spicer cold forged 5-760x (pretty good) and the Alloy USA chromoly ones (possibly a bit stronger than Spicer, but not much). CTM joints in aftermarket shafts may survive, but that would cost me many times more money than the $225 I paid for the HP D60 sitting in my shop plus modification to fit it under my truck. Vast majority (don't know what, if any, are the exceptions) of D44 front axles use the same u joints. Some old ones use smaller (Spicer 5-260x).

 

On top of that, 35" tires kill D30 unit bearings. Multiple a year. If you buy them new from the parts store they are between $90 and $125 each. And the only bigger front axle that is a bolt on (TJ Rubicon D44) uses the same D30 ends we have, so the only advantage would be the D44 pumpkin. But it is a low pinion axle, so only about as strong as a HP30. Only advantages left are factory locker, deeper available gear ratios, offset by price (they go for around $1000 here for a used one) and lower ground clearance.

 

If you're set on the 35" tire size, I would try to find a Dana 50, but it will cost you quite a bit to make it bolt under your truck. Other option would be to modify the truck to use leaf springs. If you don't mind going to larger tires to offset pumpkin size I would opt for a D60. They are plentiful and popular so a lot of aftermarket support for them. Both of these would have 8 lug hubs, though, so you'd need an 8 lug rear axle.

 

35" is the size where everything gets expensive (I'm on my 4th D30 in two and a half years since I got my 35s). Mind you I've been told I wheel my truck harder than most. In my opinion you would be much better off with 6.5" lift and 33" tires. D30 should be able to handle them, rear axle swap is cheap. If you're going to use it as a daily driver as well I would get 10.5" tire width. 33x10.50 is an uncommon size, but they are out there. They would fit on stock 7" wide rims, but I would get a bit less backspacing than stock to keep them off the control arms in sharp turns.

 

Just my $0.02 worth.

[Garvin]

A 29 spline Chrysler 8.25" is plenty big enough for 35" tires, cheap, easy to find, and would just need perches and shock mounts.

 

Front axle is a different story. Even the larger u joints don't hold up to 35" tires. I've tried Duralast Gold (junk), Neapco Brute Force (junk) Spicer cold forged 5-760x (pretty good) and the Alloy USA chromoly ones (possibly a bit stronger than Spicer, but not much). CTM joints in aftermarket shafts may survive, but that would cost me many times more money than the $225 I paid for the HP D60 sitting in my shop plus modification to fit it under my truck. Vast majority (don't know what, if any, are the exceptions) of D44 front axles use the same u joints. Some old ones use smaller (Spicer 5-260x).

 

On top of that, 35" tires kill D30 unit bearings. Multiple a year. If you buy them new from the parts store they are between $90 and $125 each. And the only bigger front axle that is a bolt on (TJ Rubicon D44) uses the same D30 ends we have, so the only advantage would be the D44 pumpkin. But it is a low pinion axle, so only about as strong as a HP30. Only advantages left are factory locker, deeper available gear ratios, offset by price (they go for around $1000 here for a used one) and lower ground clearance.

 

If you're set on the 35" tire size, I would try to find a Dana 50, but it will cost you quite a bit to make it bolt under your truck. Other option would be to modify the truck to use leaf springs. If you don't mind going to larger tires to offset pumpkin size I would opt for a D60. They are plentiful and popular so a lot of aftermarket support for them. Both of these would have 8 lug hubs, though, so you'd need an 8 lug rear axle.

 

35" is the size where everything gets expensive (I'm on my 4th D30 in two and a half years since I got my 35s). Mind you I've been told I wheel my truck harder than most. In my opinion you would be much better off with 6.5" lift and 33" tires. D30 should be able to handle them, rear axle swap is cheap. If you're going to use it as a daily driver as well I would get 10.5" tire width. 33x10.50 is an uncommon size, but they are out there. They would fit on stock 7" wide rims, but I would get a bit less backspacing than stock to keep them off the control arms in sharp turns.

 

Just my $0.02 worth.

 

I have to agree with most of this but not all. Unless you really plan on rock crawling then the u-joints will survive in the 30. I was running 36's on my old Cherokee's 30 and was going through hubs like candy (I was also running adapter spacers from 5x4.5 to 5x5.5) but never once broke a u-joint, did bend 2 housings though so I'm not exactly nice to my vehicles.

 

I'd stay away from the Dana 50 though, those are either TTB (twin traction beam, aka IFS) or metric bolt pattern and rims can get really price for them as my buddy is finding out. I opted to go with a late 80's kingpin Dana 60 in mine since a 44 wasn't worth the hassle, but I'm also running 38.5's now and plan on going up to 42's. A Dana 60 is way too big of an axle for 35" tires since you will be dragging the axle everywhere.

 

If you're looking for an easy swap for the front, you're better off just beefing up the 30. No full width front axle swap is cake work. Keep in mind that you will be wide as hell with a full width axle unless you cut it down (the Dana 60's are 9" wider than stock Dana 30's).

 

The main question comes down to, what do you plan on doing with the Jeep? If you plan on rock crawling then you might want to reconsider 8" of lift as that will make you really top heavy (I'm running 6" and can easily fit the 42's now and toying with the idea on dropping down to ~4"). If you plan on mudding then you might want to think about wider or taller tires. If you plan on driving it on the road a lot, you might also want to think about a smaller lift. Keep in mind that most states also have lift laws that you will have to abide by when lifting a vehicle.

[bottomline89]

mainly DD but i checked ks laws and the lift is legal and i'm getting wheels with a four inch back space

mudding a couple weekends in a month

flex like hell

basically i want way to much for what i'm doing. i'm not going to push my axles to any limits but i'm not going cheap.

i want a badass high school truck that i can get muddy.. but i want it to be mechanically stable and not a STUPID high school kids "block lifted chevy" (what we call a truck with a cheap lift and slightly over sized tires that tends to throw u-joints and slip gears cuz the idiot didn't do anything to improve it mechanically)

[Jeep Driver]

http://bentframe4x4.proboards.com/index ... thread=132

[bottomline89]

ok. so if i "beef up" the dana 30 and treat it nicely i'd be good with 35's?

[Garvin]

If you beat on the axle, you'll want to beef it up a lot. You will need a truss, inner C-gussets, alloy axles, alloy u-joints (or CTM's if you can afford them), and a cryo'd ring and pinion set. You'll still probably go through wheel hubs though (not sure of a cheap way of solving that issue unless you want to fork over like $1400 for the manual hub conversion kit). After all that, it'd probably be cheaper to have a shop put in a 44 or 60 (will still need alloy axles and upgraded u-joints on a 44 as they are 30 sized).

 

When I was running 36" IROK's on my 30, I bent two housings and was eating hubs but never managed to break an axle shaft, u-joint or ring and pinion. I've seen many people chip teeth on 4.88's in their 30's though and go through u-joints and axles like candy when playing in the rocks.

 

For flexing like hell, definitely look into different styles of long arms. I'm running a 3-link in the front and a simple SOA in the rear and the Jeep has killer flex. 3-link long arms is the best for flex but you want a true 3 link with panhard for that. Keep in mind that you want to keep your suspension matched (each component in the front and front to back). If your front massively out flexes the rear then it can actually hurt more than help. A flatter spring in the back will give you much better flex (another reason to stay away from the monster lifts).

 

What I would do (take it how you will) is get a true 3-link setup with some 150lb/in rate springs, some nice long shocks (I'm running 12" travel Bilstein 5150's in the front), and keep the lift around 4" and trim the wheel wells up some. That will give you great flex, great stability, great road manners, and still be well within legal specs for basically every state.

[bottomline89]

what about going to a 44 in the front?

[Garvin]

You have the advantage of a larger housing, larger ring and pinion and no unit hubs on a 44 but the axles and u-joints are the same size as the 30 so you still need to beef those up. If you're set on 8" of lift, get a 44HP as it will help the drive shaft angle a lot better and you will drag the pinion less. Others have run the 44LP and I got into a giant debate against it on CherokeeForum where I'm strongly against it as the work doesn't really warrant the amount of the upgrade. I know I'm probably going to get flamed for that comment from those that run it though but it's true. If you go to the link before, you can find the widths that you want but I don't think you can get a 44 with the stock 5x4.5 bolt pattern since the hubs are so large (don't quote me on that though, I was going to put a built 44HP into my old Cherokee with the 5x5.5 bolt pattern since I was converting. I'm now running the 8x6.5 bolt pattern on the one tons under my Comanche). If you do decide to go the 44 route, make sure you avoid the F150 and Bronco's with the cast in wedges since you can't cut them off and they are a major weak point on the axle. The older Bronco's (pre '77) and '77-'70 F250's have the weld on wedges that can be cut off and still retain that solid axle. Whichever way you choose to go, you're looking at a lot more than a few hundred dollars for the upgrade (I have about $1000 into my one ton swap only because I got the axles dirt cheap and got all the brackets for the rear for free).