chain saws...

[Pete M]

it's on the agenda for early this week. :thumbsup:

[Pete M]

stopped by today but that shop didn't have an E model in stock (got another one south of me to check out when I get a chance). also they said that they don't like the E because you can't ever spin the engine faster than 750 rpms and that can cause problems because they are sensitive to old gas and get out of tune pretty easily. :dunno:

[sinkrun]

Pete I had looked at a Dolmar ( I think)a while back it was a smaller saw like the stihl 250 but it had a compression release which is not common on smaller saws. I however know nothing about them.

[SW86]

i use a john deere chainsaw frequently at work and that thing is a beast for sure. fires on the first pull almost everytime and its not new either. i can't recall the model but its about an 18"er.

 

my JD dealer down here also has stihl stuff for sale too :brows:

[knever3]

I have heard random things about bad gas but if you use the White jugs of synthetic mix (instead of Orange) in your oil this won't be a problem. As for the revving over 750rpm's I am unfamilliar with that, sounds stupid for a chainsaw to have a low limit on revs. I too checked out Dolmar at my local store and they are nice saws, but the new ones come with a catalytic converter so the power is way down. Emissions crap because no one can make a 4 stroke chainsaw with enough power but without weighing 30 pounds.

 

Here is a review I ran across:

 

http://products.howstuffworks.com/stihl-ms-250-c-be-gas-chain-saw-review.htm

[wyk]

750 is confusing. My STIHL MS250 and MS361 IDLE at well above that. They max out around 14,500 rpm. This is what a stock ms361 can do to a log: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJoUzrmu0_Q I have a 25" bar with a skip square tooth chain on mine and just cut a 24" elm down with it effortlessly.

 

As for the new Dolmars, the ones I have seen are fine. Yes, we are on round 3-4 of the EPA chainsaw choke-off, but they still work well, and you can port the mufflers very easily. Unlike bikes, chainsaw carbs are very easy to adjust and do not require rejetting unless you basically go full race with one; in the vast majority of cases it is a simple screw adjustment. I have a special place in my heart for Dolmar 6400s and 7900s. They are quality, and well-performing tools at very reasonable prices. The 5100 seems to be the same chassis as the 6400, so I would spend the extra cash and stick with the 64(Stock, it will easily keep up with my 361). Not much reason to have the same weight and over 1.5 less hp and much less torque for the 125$ difference.

 

You have any questions, guys, feel free to ask me. I work as a ranch hand in Oregon at the moment, and I spend all day long sometimes with a chainsaw in my hand.

 

WYK

[Pete M]

as I understand the easy start operation, you pull the cord to wind up a spring. don't have to pull fast at all. the spring releases and it starts the motor. the spring apparently turns the motor at 750 rpms to start it.

[wyk]

as I understand the easy start operation, you pull the cord to wind up a spring. don't have to pull fast at all. the spring releases and it starts the motor. the spring apparently turns the motor at 750 rpms to start it.

 

Wow, that's a neat trick. I found this about it on YouTube:

Looks pretty cool. The lil farm saw here is an ms250, and I gotta say I admire the thing. It limbs extremely well, and can even buck some pine without much fuss. It's also insanely light. We have an 18" bar on ours for limbing, but I would go with 16 for cutting. This one has been abused, and it runs fine. And, apparently, they are rebuildable:

[wyk]

How the chainsaw turn out? Here's my MS361 videos:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6fJJ5iL17Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q-t3aYlSdE

[Pete M]

been way too distracted. :( maybe next week if my life calms down a bit.

[deziped]

I've owned several different brands of chain saws of various cc size and have found that their cutting ability can be directly linked to the quality of the chain and expertise with which it is sharpened. I have seen and experienced on many occasions smaller saws out cutting the big boys. My cheapo Mc C with less cc than my larger Echo or Stilh would out cut them based solely on who sharpened the chain. If I sharpened the chain it cut like crap, but, if my brother , who was a timber faller in the PNW for years sharpened it, it cut through timber like butter. But the McC sucked for running reliability. The Echo was most reliable and easiest to maintain. My brothers preference the Husq-------. How do I make recommendations on a chainsaw, pick the color you like best.

[pilotblake]

I have the Stihl 290 Farm Boss. With a dull blade you still have plenty of power to spare. My grandpa has a stihl saw that he has had for who knows how long, and has gotten its share of use over the years. Starts and runs great, alittle heavier than the newer ones but better oiling systems.

[wyk]

It's too bad you need the 'quickstart' or 'easy start' options. There are a lot of great chainsaws in the 400-520$ range that will last you a very long time and outcut the hell out of that little ms250, and do it all day long. My short list in order of preference for a light weight saw would be:

 

Husky 346XP

STIHL MS260

Husky 353

Some suggest the Dolmar/Makita 5100 series, but their weight alone precludes them, if you ask me. My MS361 weighs a few ounces more and has about 2 more HP and much more torque. The price is right, tho, and they do have decent power, but do not compare to the aforementioned models. You would buy them simply for the cost savings.

 

Not only are these professional or nearly professional models, they are all under $520, will last a lifetime if you maintain them, and are completely, and easily rebuildable if you have any mechanical aptitude.

 

If you are willing to go up in weight some and enter the 60cc class(where I feel chainsaws start, unless you have a 260/346xp). You get more HP and more torque to pull through larger wood and to more easily cut any other wood:

 

Husky 359

Dolmar/Makita 6400 series(a little heavy at well over 12.5 lbs, but very powerful at 64cc). These can often be found on sale used from the tool corral at Home Depot for stupidly low prices like $120-190, and are worth every penny, and are easily rebuildable as well.

 

All of these saws respond extremely well to very simple exhaust tuning.

 

A heavier chainsaw has less vibration while cutting(the newer ones do, at least), is balanced well while in use, and may end up being less fatiguing if you are able to cut more wood, faster, than a 50cc.

 

Also bear in mind that HP ratings are all nonsense. The MS250 is rated at 3hp while the 346xp is rated at 3.4 and the MS260 is rated at 3.2. With the same chains, the 346xp and the MS260 will cut nearly twice as fast as that MS250 when you find yourself in real wood. And they all weigh nearly the same. I, personally, would rate the MS250 at closer to 2 HP and the 346 right at 3.4. With a 20 minute carb and exhaust tune, tho, the 250 probably really does generate nearly 3hp. The farm saw we have here cuts MUCH better now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3xWIvUrFDU - it is roughly twice this fast with a sharp chain. Now, for a little 50cc VS 60cc (even if it IS a pro saw vs a homeowners), here is my exhaust modded (so turn it up!) STIHL MS361 doing a log about 4 times larger before I had to sharpen the chain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q-t3aYlSdE

 

I do not suggest an MS250 for anything aside from light limbing or small firewood. If you do get the MS250, make sure to get a yellow non-safety chain with it unless you are completely new to chainsaws. The safety chains are not any fun to file the rakers down, and do not cut nearly as well. However, if you know what you are doing, you can file the hell out of the rakers with a dremel and bring it out to cut very well. But it is best to start with a non-safety chain in the first place.

[Pete M]

safety chain = bad. check. :D

 

I don't need the easy start, but I want to check it out. all of my experience is with other people's saws (I own an electric chainsaw) and the joys of struggling to get them going. some of them made me pine for the ol' 2-person hand saws I used up at scout camp. :ack: but my dad is always meticulous when it comes to upkeep on his tools/toys and so my fear may be for naught and whatever saw he gets will probably always start fine.

 

I foresee him needing to fell a big tree maybe once a year, probably 24" diameter at the biggest and then just little stuff here and there.

[wyk]

Sounds like a 50cc is the way to go, then. I love my STIHL MS361, but for the 50cc range, the MS260(and 261 being brought out right now) are just a tad behind the Husqvarna 346XP. Some very experienced people say the 346XP is better than many 60cc saws, and one of the best chainsaws you can buy for light work. I tend to agree. If you want to save some cash, the 353 Husky is a great, reliable, saw and a great price(around $420 or so). The 346xp is $100 or so more, but it is an angry little saw. It also does this while weighing 1lb less than the 353.

 

I just took down the rakers on the safety chain on the MS250 farm saw. I also just touched up the chain on the MS361. I may go out right now and do a side by side.

 

 

 

safety chain = bad. check. :D

 

I don't need the easy start, but I want to check it out. all of my experience is with other people's saws (I own an electric chainsaw) and the joys of struggling to get them going. some of them made me pine for the ol' 2-person hand saws I used up at scout camp. :ack: but my dad is always meticulous when it comes to upkeep on his tools/toys and so my fear may be for naught and whatever saw he gets will probably always start fine.

 

I foresee him needing to fell a big tree maybe once a year, probably 24" diameter at the biggest and then just little stuff here and there.

[wyk]

Alright, the new vid is up:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2quTjn_dH7A

 

STIHL MS250 VS 3 year old STIHL MS361

Both with simple exhaust mods.

 

I forgot to add, Pete: Where you store your chainsaw makes a huge difference to how easy it is to start cold. We have a large laundry/freezer room, and that's where the saws live here. It is air conditioned and is basically an anti-room to the backdoor. The saws don't corrode nearly as much, and are very easy to start. Try not to store 'em there full of fuel (well, try to never store your saw with fuel in it if you can - both for safety and corrosion reasons now that the gov thinks it's such a good idea to put food in our fuel.

 

 

 

Sounds like a 50cc is the way to go, then. I love my STIHL MS361, but for the 50cc range, the MS260(and 261 being brought out right now) are just a tad behind the Husqvarna 346XP. Some very experienced people say the 346XP is better than many 60cc saws, and one of the best chainsaws you can buy for light work. I tend to agree. If you want to save some cash, the 353 Husky is a great, reliable, saw and a great price(around $420 or so). The 346xp is $100 or so more, but it is an angry little saw. It also does this while weighing 1lb less than the 353.

I just took down the rakers on the safety chain on the MS250 farm saw. I also just touched up the chain on the MS361. I may go out right now and do a side by side.

[wyk]

Pete:

 

Spoke with a bud today about the Makita/Dolmars(Makita owns Dolmar, a German company). He did a hard sell on the 6400's, as I expected he would, but did say that although the 510X (50cc)series of Dolkitas is at least a pound heavier than the MS260 STIHL pro saw, they cut noticeably better, and at $359 on line with free shipping and no tax to you, from Baileys(the largest on line dealer on the west coast), is a hell of a deal. The new ms261 recently released(still hard to find) is supposed to be better than the ms260, but it also is supposed to be $540. You will have to buy from Baileys this month to get the free shipping on the Mak - STIHL's are only available at your local dealer(as are some of the parts, but Baileys sells STIHL parts if you know the part# - they cannot advertise it). I am also told Makita has good customer service. Baileys also carry Husqvarnas in case you decide to go that way. For your needs, I would lean towards the 346XP(a pro saw). But at $520+ VS $350, I would look long and hard at the Mak first.

 

349 bucks is also better than any price I have seen on a Husky 353 by nearly a bill. The Maks are also easy to get parts for if you have issues, and not too difficult to work on should the need arise.

 

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=MKA+DCS510+18&catID=11226

 

My ONLY problem with the 510 is the fact I own an MS361. This is also my problem with the Mak DCS6401 as well. The 510 weighs 12.1 lbs - 3.2hp. The 6401 weighs 13.6 lbs - 4.6hp(both are close to their HP ratings). My MS361 weighs 12.3 lbs and is a 60cc class saw with about 5.5 HP in it's current tune, 4.4 stock. So, I have a bit of a bias, but I have days where I lug my saw around for 5 hours, occasionally swapping bars for larger jobs. So, it's a big deal to me. If you only use it occasionally, I would ignore the weights when the differences are 1-2 lbs. The 6401, though, is a powerful saw in the 60cc class since it is actually 64cc VS my MS361's 59cc. It has a bit more torque and HP in stock tune than my STIHL does, and it cost $200 less when new! That Husqvarna 346XP weighs a smidge over 10lbs, btw, and will out cut the 12.1lb 510 by a slim margin(but it responds better to minor tuning). So weight, or costs are your choices there. $200 to save 2lbs is a difficult ask for a grown man that doesn't haul it around all day.

 

Jacks Small Engines has a $489 special on the 346 XP's currently: http://www.jackssmallengines.com/show_single_item.cfm?prod=744&main=1&sub2=35

You can't buy XP's on line from anyone, far as I can surmise. So you'd have to visit him in MD, or try and leverage that sale price onto your local dealer.

 

Apples to oranges, I would certainly choose the DCS510 over an MS250 any day. If you want noticeably more power, and want to spend $480, the DCS6401 is a great buy: http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=MKA+DCS6401+20&catID=11227. It will absolutely embarrass all 50cc saws, and some 60cc saws.

 

Dolmar also just came out with the 5105. It is a beast in the 50cc market, and it weighs only 1lb more than the 346XP:http://www.dolmarpowerproducts.com/productcatalog/product/5415/index.html

At 3.8 HP, if it does indeed cost under $450, is worth a look. You have 4 DOlmar dealers within 60 miles of Ann Arbor: http://www.dolmarpowerproducts.com/contact/dealer_locator/usa_dealers.html

 

Here's one in Ann Arbor:

 

Name: WILLIS LAWN & GARDEN

Address: MI-48197 YPSILANTI

6394 WILLIS ROAD

Contact: Tel: 734-483-7548

Fax: 734-944-1291

E-Mail: neilandjane96@comcast.net

 

 

Good-lookin saw, too. I'd get it with an 18" bar, tho. MY MS361 wears a 24" Oregon bar with a skip tooth chain if Baileys ever gets around to shipping it(backordered).

 

Wow, I just watched this video complete with it's cheesy intro:

And I am impressed with how it handles maple. Our MS250 wouldn't make it look that easy. If you do get the 5105, you want to eventually remove the cat in the muffler, or just replace it with the 5100 non cat muffler(perfectly legal to do, and it fits fine I am told): http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=DM+181174200&catID=

 

Good luck,

 

WYK

[Pete M]

great info. :bowdown: When I can finally get around to picking up the cause again, I've got a ton of food for thought. plans keep morphing, but it looks like dad will be coming back up here for a bit in December. it'll make my decision making process soooo much easier to actually have him here. :D (I keep having to remind myself that this is his saw, not mine.)

[wyk]

great info. :bowdown: When I can finally get around to picking up the cause again, I've got a ton of food for thought. plans keep morphing, but it looks like dad will be coming back up here for a bit in December. it'll make my decision making process soooo much easier to actually have him here. :D (I keep having to remind myself that this is his saw, not mine.)

 

No problem, man. If you have any questions, just PM or email me.

 

Another thing to think of, and the route I would prolly try first, is some dealers may have the 5100 Dolmar in stock still. This is replaced by the 5105 in mid 2009. I would guess they would be willing to wheel and deal on that come Christmas to move it out of inventory. Under $400 would be a good deal on one of those. It does not have the cat(that 5100 part is the muffler part # I quoted in the Bailey's URL at the end of the previous post I made).

 

At 11.2 lbs, with good power, that sounds like the right saw for your dad, at a good price. I have also seen the 5105 at $440. Still, I would rather go with the Husky 346XP at 480 VS the 440 Dolmar since the cat needs to be removed(it gets HOT, as well), and that's gonna be $36 plus shipping or tax depending on where you get it. Or you can unclamp the muffler and simply dremel out the cat - you can't miss it, it looks like an incense can. While you are in there, enlarge the exhaust hole by 100-150% to start, adjust the carb to run a bit richer(2 screw adjustments), and you now have a 4hp+ 50cc saw with a bottom end built to take it.

 

And always run full synthetic in your saws, or stay at 40:1 or less in semi synthetic. The new saws run hotter and can score more than the old ones if you thin out the mixture too much. I run 50-60:1 synthetic in mine(depending on how lazy I am with the measuring). Some run 100:1. I think they are crazy, tho ;) The Amsoil bottle I have here states 100:1, but it shows the mixtures down to 40:1.

 

Just noticed the new 5105 now come with dual bucking spikes. With the power it has, it can use them;

 

Wow, that thing is tiny for the power it has. I sorta want one. Anyone wanna buy an MS250?

 

WYK

[88SporTruck]

safety chain = bad. check. :D

 

 

 

True as long as you can handle a saw. I have run anti-kick chain and pro chain on my POS Poulan and the Pro chain kicks @$$! You just have to watch what you are doing as one bad kick could change your life for the worse.

[wyk]

More saw spam:

 

The STIHL MS261 is out, here it is compared to a stock 346XP, and a woods ported 346XP:

 

 

here's the Dolmar 5100 cutting similar wood(competition saw size roughly):

 

 

That Dolmar is a lot of saw for 4 bills.

 

All those saws are insanely impressive for 50cc's. The Dolmar just sounds tough. You can hear the 346 and 261 bouncing off their limiters, too(14,500 rpm). You can hear the same in one of my 361 vids, too, on my mildly exhaust ported and muffler modded 361.

[wyk]

Oh yeah, found this little jewel today:

 

Mother of all 50cc chainsaw shootouts

 

 

You'll notice the MS361 is included. Technically, it is sort of a 50cc class saw since it is 59cc, er. I'm not so sure how one can argue the 390XPG, tho(90cc class saw at 88cc's). The 361 and the 390 are there to show you what real saws do to wood ;)

[wyk]

You gonna get yer Pa a chainsaw in time for Christmas? ;)

 

Here I am using far too little saw on a tree on a bud's property about 3 weeks ago or so. I had my MS361 on me when he asked to down it. I probably shoulda went home and grabbed my 046.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VeGD0kR8Uw

 

That maple is currently in the process of killing my 046(76.5cc). I need a new saw...

 

[Pete M]

If I had money I would. Supposedly he's coming up here right after Christmas so we'll see. :D

[Fire4755]

If your gonna get one get a Stihl. It's worth the extra money which they arent even that much more expensive considering it'll last ten times longer