mj payload & towing capability?

[Pete M]

what type of insurance doesn't care if you exceed the manufacturers specs?

[FXWorks]

what type of insurance doesn't care if you exceed the manufacturers specs?

 

Facility (IIRC). I need to get onto that kind of plan for track coverage anyway.

[Pete M]

is that a canadian thing?

[FXWorks]

is that a canadian thing?

 

I'm not certain, could be.

 

It was originally setup to cover drunks and other high risk retards when they could not get insurance through normal insurance companies because they were considered too high a risk. Because insurance is legally mandatory on the road there has to be someone to provide it if you have a valid license (i.e. license is not revoked). I'm not certain if that is a legal obligation thing or a professional standards thing. Facilty insurance is the segment that covers the drunks and retards if they have a valid license. It is also used to cover kit cars and race cars and stuff like that.

 

For my age group and driving experience my facility insurance would be fairly competitive with regular insurance but with the extra perks associated with custom vehicles, multiple vehicles, etc. Drunks and retards normally get reamed for a several thousand a year. From what others in the car club have told me I should be able to do something for 700-800 a year which is competitive but a touch more expensive than what I pay now. I'm only paying something like $150/year for the MJ currently but it's still not done and needs to be appraised for it's correct value. I'd guess it would cost ~$500-$600/year to insure at it's finished, correct value. Likely less.

 

That's my 40,000 ft understanding of it. I need to dig into it a bit more to get the specifics.

 

I really need to figure out how to get insured such that the insurance is on me and not the cars I own (beyond fire and theft). I intend to add a few more cars to my collection and calling to short and activate insurance is going to get more tiresome.

[WahooSteeler]

Pete, good point on the GCWV. I was going to point out, you can't add all the figures up independently, i.e. payload, tow capacity etc. Under situations like Root Moose's where it's a maxed out situation in every aspect, the gross combined weight keeps "the total package" in check.

 

Root Moose, FWIW, I'd be a lot more nervous about hauling and towing all of that with a short bed. JMO but a SWB MJ is going to be a handful with all of that. I'm kinda surprised that a SWB has the same 5k tow rating. If you look at any of today's pickup tow ratings, long beds almost always have a higher tow rating.

 

That being said, when I revised this thread I was hoping someone either had info on, or could comment on, if there are any differences in tow rating if an MJ is pulling a 5th wheel. IMO, if you could sell your trailer and find a goosneck car hauler, you'd be a lot more stable going down the road. Ooops, just remembered you want a camper pack on there too. Well, sounds to me like you need to find a LWB Big Ton MJ and you'll be set. :dunno:

[FXWorks]

Root Moose, FWIW, I'd be a lot more nervous about hauling and towing all of that with a short bed. JMO but a SWB MJ is going to be a handful with all of that. I'm kinda surprised that a SWB has the same 5k tow rating. If you look at any of today's pickup tow ratings, long beds almost always have a higher tow rating.

 

Tend to agree. That said, XJ's have the same 5k tow rating and have an even shorter wheelbase. For the record the WJ has a 6500 lb tow rating and is not that much bigger than a XJ as far as wheelbase is concerned. I don't know what to make of it.

[Pete M]

The WJ weighs more. a lot more. base XJs weigh around 3000. base WJs weigh in at nearly 3800.

 

now, having said that, our CRD Liberty is limited to 5k and it a base Libby weighs around 3800 in bare trim. ask yourself why the KJ got the short straw... :dunno:

[CWLONGSHOT]

Pete,

Libby's are damn good med tow vehicles!! I'm not talking car haulers, but they get a good weight rating. Daimler had just gotten there hands on Chrysler about the time the libby was coming out. They took the plans and added lots of structural members changed trannies and made the truck a much safer and heavier vehicle. The 3.8 is a damn good motor and coupled with the mercedes tranny 231 Tcase sitting in a steel frame, makes for a stout drive-line. I never was a big fan of unit body vehicles until my first XJ proved its durability some 20 years ago. I still will always go for a full framed vehicle for a tow vehicle.

 

I bought my wife a 2004 libby when she was T-boned in a 1999 WJ Limited. (She cut here elbow, but very minor considering the three barrel rolls the vehicle did!!) We liked the WJ, but she liked the "car" feel of the KJ better. I told her it was her choice to make, she would be driving it daily.

My XJ is rough for occupants more than the front two and having a MJ, a CJ and a TJ I am not much for people capacity. SO, the libby gets the nod for any people hauling needs. (Out to dinner with another couple) We doth agree the WJ is hands down a better and more comfortable in creature comforts. But the Lil libby is a good one, Just don't put your 200+ lb 6" buddies back there for very long... :roll: :D

 

CW

[mvusse]

To continue on GCWR, and payload, here is the complete information for short bed from my 1987 4x4 manual.

 

To to 5000 pounds:

weight distributing hitch needed for tongue weight over 350 pounds.

max tongue weight 750 pounds

4.0l 6 cylinder engine

4 speed automatic transmission 205/75R15 tires

power steering

heavy duty battery

heavy duty cooling

heavy duty axle (that would be the D44)

6ft box max gcwr 9060 pounds.

 

And there is a foot note on the tongue weight stating that payload should be reduced by tongue weight for a dead weight hitch to keep the rear axle loading below GAWR of 2700 pounds. (3400 pounds for metric tongue)

 

Long bed is the same except for GCWR of 9264 pounds, or 9820 for metric tongue.

 

Manual also lists a curb weight for base vehicle at 1394 pounds for swb and 1420 pounds for lwb. I imagine that is 4 cylinder/manual trans.

[Incommando]

The KJ has the 3.7 from the Ram/Dakota line, not the JK 3.8 from the Caravan line. I am pretty sure that your 3.8 is just a typo. But yes, Liberties tow well.

 

I have towed up to 12,000 #'s and haved towed 100,000's of miles in various trucks. Weight of the tow vehicle and, most importantly, wheel base, makes a huge difference in how easy it is to tow. I would rather have a SRW crew cab than a reg. cab dually ( i have used both) when towing a heavy trailer. A super long WB dually is best...

[CWLONGSHOT]

The KJ has the 3.7 from the Ram/Dakota line, not the JK 3.8 from the Caravan line. I am pretty sure that your 3.8 is just a typo. But yes, Liberties tow well.

 

I have towed up to 12,000 #'s and haved towed 100,000's of miles in various trucks. Weight of the tow vehicle and, most importantly, wheel base, makes a huge difference in how easy it is to tow. I would rather have a SRW crew cab than a reg. cab dually ( i have used both) when towing a heavy trailer. A super long WB dually is best...

 

Yup, that is a typo. :( :doh: The 3.7 and 3.8 are very different motors... The libby has a 3.7L.

 

 

CW

[WahooSteeler]

The WJ weighs more. a lot more. base XJs weigh around 3000. base WJs weigh in at nearly 3800.

 

now, having said that, our CRD Liberty is limited to 5k and it a base Libby weighs around 3800 in bare trim. ask yourself why the KJ got the short straw... :dunno:

 

shorter wheelbase. probably nothing to do with ability to pull the weight over 5k, just stability and safety.

[jpnjim]

Root Moose, FWIW, I'd be a lot more nervous about hauling and towing all of that with a short bed. JMO but a SWB MJ is going to be a handful with all of that. I'm kinda surprised that a SWB has the same 5k tow rating. If you look at any of today's pickup tow ratings, long beds almost always have a higher tow rating.

 

Tend to agree. That said, XJ's have the same 5k tow rating and have an even shorter wheelbase. For the record the WJ has a 6500 lb tow rating and is not that much bigger than a XJ as far as wheelbase is concerned. I don't know what to make of it.

 

 

If that confuses you, don't even look at what the LWB JK's are rated to tow :nuts:

 

The minivan engine is a limiting factor,

but I'd expect their wheelbase, track width, decent brakes (for a Jeep), and weight to bump that number up a bit (it doesn't). :dunno:

 

 

 

 

Long story short,

my guess is it comes down marketing, and where the vehicle fits in with it's niche group, and it's competition, than anything else.

 

GC rated higher than Libby = perception that GC tows better, so if you're buying a tow rig, salesman can say GC > Libby.

(if it's true, or not, result = more GC's sold).

 

Though it doesn't completely explain the JK's joke of a tow rating,

I guess no real competition = no need to push the LWB JK's ability to tow. :dunno:

[WahooSteeler]

a lot of little factors add up to a safe tow, and with that i'm sure liability exposure is a big part of it for the mfr. point being, short wheelbase or high center of gravity or low weight tow vehicle equals higher chance of losing control (even if tow vehicle components can pull the weight), equals higher liability exposure for mfr, equals conservative tow rating by mfr.

[AMC-MJ]

:hijack: "daddy a legend and a out work bum look an awful lot a like don't they daddy" SB-1 :hijack:

 

:thumbsup: Continue on ladys :clapping:

 

 

Mike

[Automan2164]

:hijack: "daddy a legend and a out work bum look an awful lot a like don't they daddy" SB-1 :hijack:

 

:thumbsup: Continue on ladys :clapping:

 

 

Mike

 

 

:hmm:

 

Rob L.

[WahooSteeler]

:hijack: "daddy a legend and a out work bum look an awful lot a like don't they daddy" SB-1 :hijack:

 

:thumbsup: Continue on ladys :clapping:

 

 

Mike

 

 

:hmm:

 

Rob L.

 

he was honoring the greatest movie of all time with another quote. In case you need a refresher, it's when Big and Little Enos Burdette walk up to the Bandit at the truck Ro-day-o show while he's sleeping in the hammock. If I have to actually tell you the movie, I'll have Pete put you on a 3 day ban from the site. :brows:

[Automan2164]

:hijack: "daddy a legend and a out work bum look an awful lot a like don't they daddy" SB-1 :hijack:

 

:thumbsup: Continue on ladys :clapping:

 

 

Mike

 

 

:hmm:

 

Rob L.

 

he was honoring the greatest movie of all time with another quote. In case you need a refresher, it's when Big and Little Enos Burdette walk up to the Bandit at the truck Ro-day-o show while he's sleeping in the hammock. If I have to actually tell you the movie, I'll have Pete put you on a 3 day ban from the site. :brows:

 

Sorry there Wahoo, although I have seen the movie, it is before my time, and the "grammar" of the quote threw me in the ringer.

 

Rob L.

[AMC-MJ]

its typed as it was said thanks tho i might be off slightly . . .not sure what the first section of it went . ..

 

hey daddy say daddy any who i took it from Daddy . . .

 

Mike

[WahooSteeler]

Before your time Automan? First of all, it came out in 1977, which if that's before your time, well, I guess you could be younger than 33. However, movies like that are a TIMELESS CLASSIC. Gone With The Wind, The Great Escape, Jaws, Rocky, Smokey and The Bandit, doesn't matter what generation or when you see it for the first time. They are all movies that transcend time! :D

[Automan2164]

Before your time Automan? First of all, it came out in 1977, which if that's before your time, well, I guess you could be younger than 33. However, movies like that are a TIMELESS CLASSIC. Gone With The Wind, The Great Escape, Jaws, Rocky, Smokey and The Bandit, doesn't matter what generation or when you see it for the first time. They are all movies that transcend time! :D

 

Yep, before my time. I be's just a youngin'. It came out near 10 years before I was a thought. I do however, have the smokey and the bandit triple pack sitting by the tube from a guy a work.

 

"Only two things I take my hat off for..."

Rob L.

[WahooSteeler]

Before your time Automan? First of all, it came out in 1977, which if that's before your time, well, I guess you could be younger than 33. However, movies like that are a TIMELESS CLASSIC. Gone With The Wind, The Great Escape, Jaws, Rocky, Smokey and The Bandit, doesn't matter what generation or when you see it for the first time. They are all movies that transcend time! :D

 

Yep, before my time. I be's just a youngin'. It came out near 10 years before I was a thought. I do however, have the smokey and the bandit triple pack sitting by the tube from a guy a work.

 

"Only two things I take my hat off for..."

Rob L.

 

like most timeless classics, the sequels are pathetic attempt at just making a few more bucks off the original's popularity and no focus on the cinematic genius of the 1st one.

[AMC-MJ]

SB-2 was my favorite SB-1 was awesome , now SB-3 was a fair out there flop . . . lets not forget the spin off TV sitcom "bandit" that came out in the mid to late 90's . . .

 

 

Mike

[WahooSteeler]

Rootmoose, what you need is to find a Big Ton MJ, which will be a long bed, and set yourself up with something like in the picture of the attached thread. A gooseneck trailer with a truck camper mounted on the front and your car on the back!

 

With the camper up front you should transfer a decent amount of weight to the back of the truck as payload. A Big Ton MJ has a GCVW of 9820lbs and a maximum trailer length of 25ft. The truck is about 3200lbs in stock form IIRC. That leaves you 6600lbs to play with, of which 5000lbs can be pulled. Your car weighs about 2800lbs, a small camper can be 1100-1500, and a gooseneck trailer to haul all of that will probably be 1500-2000lbs (hopefully ??). If your total weight of the loaded trailer is around 5700lbs +/-, and you probably would have 600-800lbs of that as hitch weight in the bed, you'd be pulling right at 5k lbs of trailer axle weight. That leaves you 700-800lbs of @$$ to put in the seats and stuff to put in the bed.

 

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8989&p=253895#p253895

[AMC-MJ]

Nope what he needs to do is go over sea's and get himself the MJ-Dually and be done with it . . .

 

Such as these:

 

 

:clapping: I want one but there aint any really to be had :fs1: could one build such a unit :hmm:

 

My V-8 / 5spd repower would make a perfect MJ dually :eek:

 

 

Mike