engine squeal

[mike87mj]

ok so iv had this squeal going on for a couple weeks now. every time i think iv got it it comes back :wall: so here's what i got and here's what iv done: its a 87 4.0 i6 2x4 trans(not a clue just got the truck in march) so when i start it it just starts squealing like a stuck pig. iv replacced the idle pulley the water pump and gone through 2 belts and a couple cans of penetrating oil(been spraying on the pulleys)so i thought i figured it out the other day when i pulled the fan and pulley and found that the pulley was cutting into the timing cover i figure someone forgot some washers to hold it away from the cover so a few washers and bolted it back up it no longer shreds belts but the damn squeal is still there!!! :dunno: i drove it the other day to see if the squeal would work its way out got the motor up to running temp then it slowly started going away (probably about 15 min of driving) and then it suddenly went away but when i really got down on the gas it came back :headpop: I'm wondering if the crankshaft pulley has a bearing behind it? or if any one else has had this problem and how to fix it or even help to diagnose where the problem is really coming from I'm tired of buying parts that i think are bad and then being wrong and really don't want to throw any more money at the wrong thing

[jimoshel]

Sounds like a bad bearing, Could be alternator, power steering pump, water pump, A/C if you got it. Not likely anything in the motor, behind the CS pulley. Could loosen the belt and insure it's a accessory and not the engine. Then use the hose trick, After hooking the belt back up again.Watch for the fan blades. Stick one end of a rubber hose in your ear. Hold the other end to the Acc's. Help pinpoint where the noise is coming from.

[WahooSteeler]

mine had an annoying squeal about a year ago. i thought it was the idler pulley, maybe the water pump or another pulley. i happened to take the truck to a shop because i was replacing the expansion valve on the a/c system and couldn't get it off to save my life. when i picked it up, the guy said, "oh, and i tightened up your belt and got rid of your squealing". been gone ever since. :thumbsup:

[Harper]

Check out that harmonic balancer.....could be coming apart. It's a 2-piece, the grooved pulley separated from the hub by a rubber ring. If the hub and pulley don't looked lined up or you can see the rubber working its way out from between, then it's time to replace the whole thing.

[Dave Stark]

The clutch inside the clutch fan. Mine is doing the same thing.

 

It's more of a howl though, & it goes away when the engine is revved or after about 15mins to warm up.

[BORDENCOMANCHE]

This is going to sound really retarded...

 

I replaced every single component on my grand prix because I had the belt routed wrong. I know call me an idiot, but my car didn't have the sticker and the images on the cover that came with the belt made ZERO sense. So, there I was with a big squealer and every single acc worked so, check the routing of your belt and the tension.

 

These I6's are bulletproof motors.

[mike87mj]

mine had an annoying squeal about a year ago. i thought it was the idler pulley, maybe the water pump or another pulley. i happened to take the truck to a shop because i was replacing the expansion valve on the a/c system and couldn't get it off to save my life. when i picked it up, the guy said, "oh, and i tightened up your belt and got rid of your squealing". been gone ever since. :thumbsup:

I'm pretty sure iv got the belt tight enough but ill double check i actually tighned the thing while it was running to see if i could find the sweet spot and it really didnt help

Check out that harmonic balancer.....could be coming apart. It's a 2-piece, the grooved pulley separated from the hub by a rubber ring. If the hub and pulley don't looked lined up or you can see the rubber working its way out from between, then it's time to replace the whole thing.

not to sound like a tard but anyone got any pics of this so maybe i can try and compare i don't have a book i know i need one but i hate spending money lol

The clutch inside the clutch fan. Mine is doing the same thing.

 

It's more of a howl though, & it goes away when the engine is revved or after about 15mins to warm up.

my brothers jeep is sittin here he just threw a rod in it i think i might play swap the parts for a bit till i find the one lol :rotf: i might just tell him oh maybe the rod made your truck squeel :yes:

[mike87mj]

This is going to sound really retarded...

 

I replaced every single component on my grand prix because I had the belt routed wrong. I know call me an idiot, but my car didn't have the sticker and the images on the cover that came with the belt made ZERO sense. So, there I was with a big squealer and every single acc worked so, check the routing of your belt and the tension.

 

These I6's are bulletproof motors.

ya i know i got it right even thought that maybe i had it wrong but double checked online and on my bros truck

[mjeff87]

i pulled the fan and pulley and found that the pulley was cutting into the timing cover i figure someone forgot some washers to hold it away from the cover so a few washers and bolted it back up it no longer shreds belts but the damn squeal is still there

 

There's two different versions of the 4.0L waterpump, one for the XJ/MJ which has offset front end components and one for the YJ/TJ with centered componenets. There's about a 1/2" difference in the length of the "snout" that the pulley bolts too (the YJ/TJ one is shorter). Sounds to me like your PO installed a YJ pump and the washers you added to it, while now preventing the pulley from rubbing, are causing the pulley to be out of line with the rest of the pulleys.

 

Jeff

[AmJay]

so i thought i figured it out the other day when i pulled the fan and pulley and found that the pulley was cutting into the timing cover i figure someone forgot some washers to hold it away from the cover so a few washers and bolted it back up it no longer shreds belts but the damn squeal is still there!!! :dunno:

 

The fan pulley doesn't take any washers and on mine it can't cut into the timing cover because it is to the right of the cover. Did you mean the belt was cutting into the timing cover? There isn't any in or out adjustment on any of the pulleys. They all bolt or are pressed down tight. I agree with Harper, you need to take a look at your harmonic balancer (crank pulley). There isn't any bearings in the harmonic balancer it just bolts tight to the crankshaft. Look at the balancer. It has an inner ring that goes around the crank and has a bolt on the end. It has an outer ring that has the pulley on it. These are separated by rubber. The inner ring should be flush with the outer ring. It it isn't your balancer has separated and is out of alignment with the other pulleys. Usually when it separates the belt will ride out of the grooves in the pulley and rest on the back which will cause it to rub against the timing cover and shred belts.

 

If the harmonic balancer is ok, then one of the other grooved pulleys is out of alignment. Since all the pulleys bolt or are pressed down tight it may be a bent attachment (power steering, air compressor, alternator, fan). The water pump and idler pulleys ride on the back side of the belt and alignment isn't as critical and shouldn't cause a problem unless a bearing is bad or the pulley is bent. On mine someone had replaced the power steering pump with a junk yard one and it wasn't made for my engine. The pulley sat back a 1/4 inch further. A trip to NAPA for the right pulley fixed the problem, but not before it took out the harmonic balancer.

 

As WahooSteeler said, tighten your belt. I'm guessing you already did this though.

 

I can include lots of pictures if you want.

[AmJay]

Here is what a separated pulley might look like. see the inner part with the spokes is 1/4 inch deeper then the outer part with the pulley.

 

[Harper]

Check out that harmonic balancer.....could be coming apart. It's a 2-piece, the grooved pulley separated from the hub by a rubber ring. If the hub and pulley don't looked lined up or you can see the rubber working its way out from between, then it's time to replace the whole thing.

"not to sound like a tard but anyone got any pics of this so maybe i can try and compare i don't have a book i know i need one but i hate spending money lol"

 

 

mjeff87 wrote up a good howto: replace timing chain...... viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3291 ..if you'll look starting at about the 11th picture, he goes through pulling the harmonic balancer, and has a picture of one that needs to be replaced. You can see on that picture where the pulley has worked forward of the hub, and the rubber insert is also clearly visible. When this happens, it usually starts out with a squeal, due to the misalignment, then progresses to just chewing up the serpentine belt, and all you hear is pieces bangin' on the underside of the hood. :(

[mike87mj]

so i thought i figured it out the other day when i pulled the fan and pulley and found that the pulley was cutting into the timing cover i figure someone forgot some washers to hold it away from the cover so a few washers and bolted it back up it no longer shreds belts but the damn squeal is still there!!! :dunno:

 

The fan pulley doesn't take any washers and on mine it can't cut into the timing cover because it is to the right of the cover. Did you mean the belt was cutting into the timing cover? There isn't any in or out adjustment on any of the pulleys. They all bolt or are pressed down tight.

I'm about to go out there and try some more things ill take a camera and show you the fan pulley and the timing case. i had inspected the pulley and it looked good i didnt take into consideration the post it all bolts into being bent ill check and thanks for the pic of the pulley it should definately help me inspect mine.

[mike87mj]

ok so here's some pics...first my brothers jeep aka my new donor :brows:

my comanche

the groove the fan pulley was cutting into my timing case

so i yanked the fan and put the pulley on with out it to see if the fan was making the noise but it still there so i started searching found out that the power steering pump was the problem whens prayed with something it shut up and when it dried it was back so 1 new pump and i think the problem is fixed ill know in a day or so if it comes back fingers crossed

thanks for all the input oh and the harmonic pulley is in good shape :beerhead:

[AmJay]

I'm glad your harmonic balancer is good. Those are a pain to change. You shouldn't have to put washers on the Fan bearing flange to keep the pulley from hitting your timing cover. So, what's up with that? It's too dark for pictures, but that just isn't right. Any in out or wobble in that bearing? I bet it's a lot easier to work on without the shroud around the fan.

[mike87mj]

ya the fan shroud was missing when i bought it kinda sucks iv almost taken my fingers off acouple times on the fan puttin the hood prop back lol well i was wondering if that stud that comes out of the ac bracket that the fan and pulley bolt into was bent cause the sound has returned :( what is that thing called?

[Pete M]

Do you have a "macro" setting on your camera? might have a little flower next to that button.