Randy in Maine Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 '90 Comanche long bed with the Dana 30's (I think) in decent shape with a 4.0L and 5 speed. Stock Michelin 215/75/15s and the 3.07 axles, but with the sort of usual tired rear springs. Good brakes and overall running conditon. I have a good frame mounted hitch with 2" receiver. LED towlights. I want to tow a 79 VW Camperbus (3300 pounds) 500 miles using my VW bus towbar. DC to Maine. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimoshel Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Wouldn't advise it. However it's been done and take it easy you can do it. Trouble with P/U's and towbars is the weight ratio. Trucks have the power,gearing frame strength but no weight on the rear wheels.Unlike a trailer where weight is transfered to the truck. Tow bars exert no weight. Just a side force. I lost a '65 Dodge 1 ton pulling a '52 Waggoner when the front tire on the Jeep blew. Totaled them both out. Put a couple hundred pounds weight in the truck bed and take it easy you be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanche09 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 +1 Yeah and that VW is weight biased to the rear (rear engine?) so that makes things even worse. Would be a little better if you could use a tow dolly. Best if you could use a tandem axle car carrier, but then you'd need a bigger towing vehicle... Or at least trailer brakes and a good brake controller. Then plan on a clutch replacement. Can anyone who's towed over 3000+ with a 5spd for any long distance chime in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I would rent a tow dolly with brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBKrazy Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 www.uhaul.com lol.... they rent tow dollies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy in Maine Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Well I hooked up my towbar to my other 79 VW Camperbus and pulled it behind the Camanche for about 10 miles. You definitely know it is back there, but it stopped pretty decent from about 60 mph. That is all I will likely be driving anyway. My mechanic guy say to "go for it" just be sure allow for a good safety space in front and to be mindful of the clutch and to use the engine for slowdowns. I think I am going to give it a try. I will report back after Thanksgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotblake Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Wife said I couldn't have it..but I REALLY WANT IT :fool: . Not sure what the weight of the trailer is but it came to mind. http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1427377817.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automan2164 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 pilotblake said: Wife said I couldn't have it..but I REALLY WANT IT :fool: . Not sure what the weight of the trailer is but it came to mind. http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1427377817.html Thats awesome! Rob L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 That has got to be the smallest 5th wheel I've ever seen. Only time I've seen a 5th wheel behind a mid size truck was a Dakota pulling a 20 footer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 comanche09 said: Can anyone who's towed over 3000+ with a 5spd for any long distance chime in? Yeah. I towed an XJ hulk (partially stripped) on an aluminum car hauler trailer from southern Massachusetts to southern Connecticut. Distance was maybe 50 or 60 miles by the route I took. The tow vehicle was my '88 MJ, 4.0L 5-speed with 3.73 gears. I believe I had the 31" tires on it at the time. BAD MOVE! Going up even gentle inclines meant I was holding up traffic. Anything more than a very gentle upgrade required dropping down to third and even second gear. Going DOWNhill was rather exciting, since the wiring on the trailer brakes didn't match up to my truck harness (I borrowed the trailer). In the space of about 2 miles from where I started I ran three red lights because I couldn't get the rig stopped. And then it started to rain. First time I touched the brakes, I jack-knifed it, because the MJ stopped, and the trailer just kept on pushing. And, of course, there was no weight on the rear wheels of the MJ ... I don't think the rig I was towing weighed 3,300 pounds, but it might have been close. 500 miles? I wouldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 According to the manual, anything over 1000 pounds requires trailer brakes. Now my trailer weighs 1200 pounds dry, and I've had it loaded over 3000 for a gross weight of ~4500 pounds. towing with both the MJ and the XJ. Just short distances, though. I will not tow it with the XJ ever again when fully loaded. Every turn (zig zag township road) it pushed my @$$ end sideways. Only way to keep it straight was to brake before the turn, when still going straight, then power it through, keeping the vehicle pulling on the trailer so the trailer can't push. The MJ doesn't have this problem hardly at all. Counterintuitive because of I imagine less weight on the rear axle. May be the longer wheel base. Problem I have with the MJ is stopping it downhill with a stop sign at the bottom. Twice now I have ran that stop sign with the brakes to the floor. Rear brakes have been upgraded, still can't stop it downhill fully loaded. Next upgrade will be a dual diaphragm booster under the hood and brakes on the trailer. The XJ can stop it, but I have to watch it, because it takes close to locked up brakes to do so. And the moment they lock up the trailer jackknifes. XJ has no problem keeping 60 mph up hill, but I have to downshift to 4th, and once to 3rd on a very steep hill (9% grade). That's with a smidge larger than stock tires (235/75R15) and stock 3.07 gears. MJ has more trouble, but it has stock gears (3.55, auto trans) with 33" tires. It can only keep up ~45 on that hill with the pedal to the floor. For fairly frequently towing 3000 pounds for long distance, Comanches are too light, and don't have good enough brakes. I would consider a full size rig. Towing the same trailer with the Suburban I'd have to check the rear view mirror to make sure it was still there when empty, and when fully loaded it was barely noticeable, and only while braking. The only time I can compare it to the MJ towing my fully loaded trailer was when I had a 15,000 pound hauler loaded with 2 Bobcats (753 series) behind it. But then again, that should have been towed by a dump truck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanche09 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Wow those are some scary stories! :eek: Thanks for the replies. FWIW I tow a 5x10 single axle utility trailer (weighs 1300lbs and no trailer brakes) with about 1000 lbs loaded on it for a total of about 2300 lbs with my MJ (it has 4.0L 5spd pukegoat with 3.07 gears and 235/70/15 tires). Nothing in the bed. Towed it just fine. Never went past 4th gear though. Stopped just fine too. Though I have new front disks and pads on the 97 D30 and the 95 XJ dual diaphram booster, I know that definately makes a difference. I would definately be hesitant with the old POS original single diaphram booster. Did you all make sure to load the trailer heavier in the front? Should be 60/40 biased, though more in the front is always better. Just for comparison sake, I towed a uhaul double axle car carrier (2000lbs) with an small car on it (2300 lbs) with my KK (max 5000lb tow like the auto 4.0L MJ)). The Liberty was riding on the bump stops on the rear and has a short 106in? wheelbase, but 3.73 gears w 235/70/16 tires). Towed it like a champ up to 70 on the highway. Stopped fine too, but the Uhaul trailer had surge brakes so no surprise there. Properly set up (meaning gears/tires, updated brake system, metric tonne springs,etc) I have little doubt a 4.0 MJ could tow what my KK did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowey Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 U-haul wouldn't even rent a dolly to the OP. If you went in and told them what you are doing.. they would tell you the truck doesn't have enough weight or size to control the dolly and van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanche09 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 whowey said: U-haul wouldn't even rent a dolly to the OP. If you went in and told them what you are doing.. they would tell you the truck doesn't have enough weight or size to control the dolly and van. Yeah, he's right... per uhaul.com. They will not rent it out unless the tow vehicle weighs over 3500lbs... That said, I've seen guys at the counter, ahem, alter the tow vehicle in the computer to get you going. Bigger trucks often tow double their weight or more. They also will not rent to ANY trailer to ANY YEAR Ford Explorer, because of the Firestone debaucle years ago, even though the current Explorer isn't even remotely the same vehicle as the one involved back then and is more than capable of towing any uhaul trailer. You CAN tow them with a Mercury Mountaineer (Explorer clone)of ANY year however... Lawyers :shake: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 comanche09 said: Did you all make sure to load the trailer heavier in the front? Should be 60/40 biased, though more in the front is always better. No, more on the front is NOT better. You have to be sure not to exceed the tongue weight on the hitch. You want enough weight on the hitch that it won't pop off the ball, but you don't want anything more than that. 20 percent of 3,300 pounds is 660 pounds -- that may exceed the rating on your hitch right there. (Although pulling on four wheels with a tow bar that wouldn't be a consideration.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanche09 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Quote No, more on the front is NOT better. You have to be sure not to exceed the tongue weight on the hitch. You want enough weight on the hitch that it won't pop off the ball, but you don't want anything more than that. 20 percent of 3,300 pounds is 660 pounds -- that may exceed the rating on your hitch right there. (Although pulling on four wheels with a tow bar that wouldn't be a consideration.) Well, I was under the assumption that that consideration was already in mind... Of course do not exceed max tongue rating. :nuts: By "more weight on the front" I meant that weight on the trailer should be biased to the front (the trailer axle(s) being the pivot point). If you have been unfortunate enough to tow with more weight in the rear, you will understand quickly what I mean, luckily I know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanche09 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Great read here: http://www.sherline.com/lmbook.htm#refrn10] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 comanche09 said: By "more weight on the front" I meant that weight on the trailer should be biased to the front (the trailer axle(s) being the pivot point). If you have been unfortunate enough to tow with more weight in the rear, you will understand quickly what I mean, luckily I know better. What you said is, bias the weight 60/40 on the front, "more is better." I repeat: More is NOT better. You want/need only enough forward bias to ensure positive downforce on the hitch ball. Beyond that, you risk overloading the hitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanche09 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 You are correct Eagle more is not always better. I was wrong by stating "more is always better". I was thinking as opposed having more weight in the REAR which almost always has CATASTROPHIC consequences Eagle. And the previous posters experience had led me to believe that that is how they were loaded... Again, good read in the link I posted above... To the OP, lets us know how it went! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I don't know which previous poster you mean, but the way my trailer is set up, and how I load it I usually end up with ~15% of tongue weight. I have been towing trailers for 19 years, and have learned a few things along the way. Problem I'm currently having is towing a trailer I designed for a Suburban, now that I don't have a Suburban any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy in Maine Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 A quick update. I drove ~600 miles from Maine to DC to pick up this 79 VW P-27 camperbus on a wet & windy Friday. Nice bus with lots of spare parts. Deluxe camper in Mexico beige with the 2 burner propane stove, sink, fridge, poptop (exactly my other camper) with absolutely no rust to it. It had car tires on it vs "bus tires" which did not help with "windwag". Also it was loaded with a spare engine, and boxes of spare parts and likely weighed about 4000 pounds. The good tow bar worked geat as did the good tow lights. I started back on a windy but dry Saturday. It was a big load for the Comanche and the lack adequate braking required constant attention sort of like driving in snow where quick changes in anything were not advised. Traffic was also heavy and 55 mph was the best towing speed. Engine braking and 4th gear up hills proved helpful for braking and to stay on top of the torque curve. Not white knuckle drivng, but close and stressful. Winds on the bridges and as big trucks passing required a lot of care. Sunday had reduced wind and dry conditions. Clutch action was a drag when waiting at big backups at the toll booths on the various turnpikes, but I got through it. The Jeep ran very well, even pulling this 2 ton breadloaf. If I had to do it again, I would use a bigger and heavier tow vehicle. Like an F-250 or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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