Where does the water come from (Update...Now Windshield!)

[dakal]

IV'E GOT EVERYTHING OUT I CAN POST PICS IN 12HRS

 

no caps

[SuperWade2]

IV'E GOT EVERYTHING OUT I CAN POST PICS IN 12HRS

 

no caps

 

Thanks Guys...I don't know how you dudes live with Rust... I'm sick over this little spot (and I'm afraid it's going to be crazy hard to fix), I can't imagine having the rust problems many of you guys do...

[maddzz1]

Wade did you check the little grommet where the hood release cable comes thru the firewall? Mine had popped out. I'm thinking I may put some RTV around it before I pop it back in

[dakal]

also just above that grommet there is another one. mine came out easy. too easy

 

look from the engine side, top right.

[dakal]

notice top left grommet

 

Image Not Found

 

engine side. the hole where my wires or clear tubing is going through, was black

grommet like the other ones there.

i just had a leak so i'm going to check the upper left inside one.

 

 

 

Image Not Found

[SuperWade2]

I sealed most of those grommets already with RTV when I was first looking for the leaks (before I found the rust spot up under the firewall insulation).

 

Sucks that I can't really even start taking my Wiper arms and stuff out cause we got rain for the next few days and the TJ is sort of still not done (got a crappy China Warranty replacement unit bearing from OMIX/AlloyUSA, so I'm going back to 27 spline with a new outer stub and 27 spline Timkin Hub Bearing assembly).

 

One of the guys in my club suggested this, has anyone heard of this stuff?

 

"I had a leak in a hard to get spot on my old runner. I thought about cutting and welding but then came up with a new plan. I went down and got some of that caulking/sealer that comes from the factory on all new cars were there is a seam. I'm not talking about silicone. It's the stuff that when cured is like steal and is paintable. I got it from a body shop supply place, can't remember the name. Only get it were you want it or you'll never get it off. Have fun."

 

another suggestion from my club

 

"Wade, You're right, there isn't too many ways to get into that spot. If the dash was out, it would be accessable, but that's a big job. Taking the fender off wouldn't help unless it's rusted there also and from the pictures, it isn't. My suggestion would be to use a can of expanding foam insulation and fill that end of the cowl with it and then trim to let the wipers work. You can get very limited access from the wiper compartment but it won't be easy to work on. Just clean it as best you can and go from there. "

[dakal]

the stuff is called seam sealer. can get it at any body shop supply, for sure.

 

i would not use expanding foam stuff. will trap water, then more rust.

 

they have seam sealer in tubes for caulking guns.

 

the stuff i use is called, bostik urethane sealant # 1100 fast set.

 

its ulgy!!! to work with.

 

:yes:

[SuperWade2]

i would not use expanding foam stuff. will trap water, then more rust.

 

they have seam sealer in tubes for caulking guns.

 

the stuff i use is called, bostik urethane sealant # 1100 fast set.

 

its ulgy!!! to work with.

 

:yes:

 

I was thinking the same thing about the "expanding foam" suggestion...although not sure I'll get a caulking gun into that cowl area very well for the other stuff.... but $3.50 a tube shipped free 2 days from Amazon.com is worth a try...

 

Now I just need to decide if I'm just going to go over the top of the rust that's there or what...don't think I can cut and patch, POR15 is a possibility I guess...maybe just a patch of steel to fit inside the cowl area and underneath and use that seam sealer stuff to attach it?

[dakal]

cut the tip big and put clear tubing on the end.

 

you'll waste some, but if it works.

 

i used a 6 " clear tubing extension on mine

[87MJJeep]

Got my Carpet cleaned at the local Carwash...$25 since it was yanked out... Once I think I have a better handle on the leaks, I'll get everything reinstalled...

 

If you haven't already, check the cowl drains.

 

(Pop off the wipers, and remove the cowl plate, about six small screws. Underneath, there will be a drain hole, about 1" diameter, on each side.)

 

If they fill up with leaves n crap, the water will puddle up and drain back into the cab. You wouldn't think so, but it can put a LOT of water into the Jeep...

 

Good luck!

 

Robert

 

I pulled the cowl cover on mine. I poured water one 2L Coke bottle at a time. My front right leak is coming from the cowl rather than windshield. It appears to come into the cab then run down the passenger side panel (the one that is the inner fender(?) that is to the right of the passenger's feet).

 

I've seen the photos by "mfpdm" in this thread:

 

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9741

 

For a leak on the passenger side, I don't see how to get to it or even see the details in that end. The cowl area looked really clean, too. I am not sure what to do now.

[87MJJeep]

Right after making the post above, I went outside to remove the insulation on the passenger side inner fender (?).

 

That's when I found a hole with a cable coming through it. I quickly got a hose stuck in the cowl, turned on the water, and thankfully this hole was the entry point of my water! Considering I did not how to get to that corner of the cowl, I am quite pleased right now!

 

I was going to ask what that cable is, but I took another look. It's an aftermarket radio's antenna cable. One more reason I hate aftermarket crap. :fs1: My MJ has two antenna cables. I'm special. :doh:

 

Now to pull the cables and run a correct size grommet on it.

 

So far, equipped with baby powder, I haven't spotted the leaks in the passenger rear or driver front. Those areas would stop leaking once I got the serious tool out. I do have the best smelling Comanche interior. When I close the doors, a poof of white dust goes everywhere. :rotf:

 

The passenger rear leak puddles right next to the seatbelt bolt. Every time I've found water there, there was no sign of where it came from! I'll leave the baby powder in there for a while.

 

[mfpdm]

I was going to ask what that cable is, but I took another look. It's an aftermarket radio's antenna cable. One more reason I hate aftermarket crap. :fs1: My MJ has two antenna cables. I'm special. :doh:

 

Now to pull the cables and run a correct size grommet on it.

 

So far, equipped with baby powder, I haven't spotted the leaks in the passenger rear or driver front. Those areas would stop leaking once I got the serious tool out. I do have the best smelling Comanche interior. When I close the doors, a poof of white dust goes everywhere. :rotf:

 

The passenger rear leak puddles right next to the seatbelt bolt. Every time I've found water there, there was no sign of where it came from! I'll leave the baby powder in there for a while.

 

That is the hole for the factory antenna cable. You said you have two, where's the other one at? Anyhow, the factory grommet will actually come off of the antenna cable. There is a small metal ring crimped on one side. Just remove it and you can slide it off. Any XJ in the JY can provide the grommet. Far as your leak on the passenger side back, two possibilities. The B-pillar blow out vent is letting water in or your rear window. Now the rear window could be as simple as it was not sealed good or it maybe that the window channel has a spot that has rusted through. You should be able to pull the back cab trim pieces and see if you have water trails. I found this out when I recently had the rear window swapped on the 86. Two holes rusted through on the bottom of the window channel and was probably the cause of my floor rot. :fs1:

 

:cheers:

[87MJJeep]

That is the hole for the factory antenna cable. You said you have two, where's the other one at? Anyhow, the factory grommet will actually come off of the antenna cable. There is a small metal ring crimped on one side. Just remove it and you can slide it off. Any XJ in the JY can provide the grommet. Far as your leak on the passenger side back, two possibilities. The B-pillar blow out vent is letting water in or your rear window. Now the rear window could be as simple as it was not sealed good or it maybe that the window channel has a spot that has rusted through. You should be able to pull the back cab trim pieces and see if you have water trails. I found this out when I recently had the rear window swapped on the 86. Two holes rusted through on the bottom of the window channel and was probably the cause of my floor rot. :fs1:

 

:cheers:

 

The previous owner that put the radio in left the old cable in there when routing the new radio's cable. Not only did the moron leave that hole wide open, he wired the speakers wrong. Thanks for the lead on the factory grommet!

 

I put black silicone on my rear window two weeks ago, but still had a drip after that (the silicone fixed the driver side rear leak though!). I'll check the blow-out vent. Is that located behind the black trim pieces on the side of the cab? If so, that seems like it could be given where the water is.

[mfpdm]

Yep. Here is how to get them off if you don't know. http://comancheclub.com/forums/viewtopi ... =2&t=18718

 

What happens is that the 20 year old weather stripping stops doing it's job and allows water to run down into the blowout insert. Just get some from the hardware store and replace like so.

 

 

:cheers:

[87MJJeep]

thanks for the advice!

[SuperWade2]

Well, I thought I had my leak situation under control... I was wrong!!!! I had the interior all reinstalled, was playing with a new center console and my pass.side floor was SOAKED...again...

 

I just came in from soaking the outside with a hose (AGAIN)...

 

It seems that the water is coming from the foam seal thing behind this (heater core?). The White stuff is a combo of my last hack job of silicon and baby powder that I didn't clean up that well.

 

 

I already replaced the rubber Cowl to Hood Seal, but there is still water running in here;

 

 

Any other suggestions, this is getting old, fast!

[SuperWade2]

bump^

[mfpdm]

This might help you out a little. It's a pic of the firewall which you can see most of the holes that are there.

 

 

Where you think the leak is, is where the fan housing is. The heater box has a rubber gasket around it that is suppose to seal it. Did you have the dash out? Wasn't the driver side leak from the cowl area? Was just wondering if maybe you have one on the passenger side which you would need to pull the heater box to see it. I know this is driving you nuts but you may need to pull it all out and go to town with RTV.

 

:cheers:

[mfpdm]

Just found the pic from inside the cowl area I was trying to find. :shake:

 

 

The thing coming up from the bottom is the air intake I believe for the heater box. The thing above it is where the hood hinge is. If the hinge is allowing water to drip down into the intake, it would go into the heater box and find it's way to the seam at the bottom of the fan housing. If I remember correctly, you can pull that part of the heater box off without taking the whole thing out. It's a PITA but doable, I think. I'll look tomorow at the one in the shed to refresh my memory. If this is the source of the problem, there should be water stains inside the heater box.

 

:cheers:

[SuperWade2]

Just found the pic from inside the cowl area I was trying to find. :shake:

 

 

The thing coming up from the bottom is the air intake I believe for the heater box. The thing above it is where the hood hinge is. If the hinge is allowing water to drip down into the intake, it would go into the heater box and find it's way to the seam at the bottom of the fan housing. If I remember correctly, you can pull that part of the heater box off without taking the whole thing out. It's a PITA but doable, I think. I'll look tomorow at the one in the shed to refresh my memory. If this is the source of the problem, there should be water stains inside the heater box.

 

:cheers:

 

Thanks mfpdm, that makes sense.... I watched water run down from the foam area at the bottom of the fan housing (in the red circle on my first pic there). I'm also doing this water testing with the rig parked in my driveway, which is probably at a 15-20% incline (I'm guessing, I've never measured), so I'm thinking the incline is also helping water to collect and drip in... I should try it on the street, or park backwards and try and see if I get the same pooling/dripping.

 

Is the heater box the thing just above this with the foam "grate" looking thing? I'll also look a closer look at the hinge area to see if there are any cracks that could be letting water in, and I'll RTV the poo out of them.

 

We are driving up to San Francisco for the day with the kids, but I will have more time to play this weekend.

 

Sw2

[socal1200r]

Wade

 

I have some water spots on my floorboards as well. I ended up taking out the bench seat, cutting out most of the carpeting, putting down some bedliner spray, and drilling a couple of small drainage holes where most of the water was puddling. I'm using heavy duty rubber floor mats now, and what little water accumulates on the floorboards now, I'm okay with it now. If you haven't re-installed your carpet yet, I'd suggest putting down some bedliner on those floors, and using some good rubber mats.

 

Good luck!

[mfpdm]

Is the heater box the thing just above this with the foam "grate" looking thing? I'll also look a closer look at the hinge area to see if there are any cracks that could be letting water in, and I'll RTV the poo out of them.

Sw2

 

That grate thing is where the system pulls air from the cab instead of the vent.(recirc)

 

Here you can see from the top of the heater box. Your looking through the hole that would be up against the bottom of the cowl. As pictured, it's in the vent position. The bottom is a flap and would lift up and block the opening and pull air from the cab(grate).

 

 

Here you can see it in relation to the whole box.

 

 

Now I thought maybe you could pull that part without pulling the dash but I really don't think it can be done. Maybe, if you just drop the dash forward. But there is only a few things to undo to separate that side of the box.

 

There are three nuts in the engine side of the firewall.

 

 

Two screws on the front interior.

 

 

One screw and one clip on the bottom back interior.

 

 

You will need to cut this strap(red X) and you'll need to undo the harness from the clips(red arrows) and remove the screw that holds it to the upper support(red circle).

 

 

And there you have it. You separated the halfs.

 

 

Now if you do happen to go through all this, you might as well have a new heater core handy and replace it since you have it open. Sorry so long and I can't really remember what it was or how I related this to your problem. :shake:

 

:cheers:

[SuperWade2]

Thanks, that at least gives me something to start with...I was going to look thru the Foam around the hood latch on the pass side to see if I could see any evidence that is where the water might be going in.

 

I went to pull the MJ out of my driveway to fit my Roll Bar (on the incline, nose up), and of course, it wouldn't start (CPS maybe) But as I rolled it down the driveway to push into the street, I could literally hear quite a bit of water sloshing around and pouring out as it was rolling down (mind you, we've had no rain in days). So it's obviously pooling somewhere and not draining correcting, probably from various places. I think Rule #1, don't park it nose up on my incline driveway.

[1987Comanche]

I've done a lot of research on water leaks (the old '87 had one, the new '90 has multiple leaks) and I've plugged a few so far. It rained a lot this weekend so I tried to track a few others down. I was able to track them a lot farther back than before but am still trying to get to the source. Here's what I have:

 

1. Water on both Dr & pass side of the floor pooling behind the support bracket under the seat. The trail leads past the lower seatbelt bolts and seems to end where the body makes it's 90 degree bend from the back of the cab to the side of the cab. I'd guess rear window but the gasket seems to be in good shape. What specifically do I check for here?

 

2. 2 separate trickles of water apparently coming from the fuse panel?? One trickle is from the center of the block and the other is from the RH side. I replaced the clutch master cyl and sealed it to the firewall when I installed it so it shouldn't be that. I also sealed the hood release grommet and accelerator cable grommet when I had the master cyl out. What else is up there to leak??

 

3. A very small trickle on the driver's side where the leading edge of the door makes it's 90 degree bend. My water deflectors are in place but may need to be resealed. It has to be either that or the door gasket.

[SuperWade2]

I'm thinking about throwing a tarp over mine until summer... :fs1:

 

I just went out to peek at mine (since I haven't looking at it in a over a week and it's been raining steady for a couple of days)...

 

BIG Ol'e Puddles on both sides of the floorboards...again...Rusting where the water is sitting

 

I'm beginning to remember why I was considering selling it before... I honestly think the only chance I got of getting the leaks fixed/repaired/patched, etc is to remove the dash... and seal all the area's where it could be coming in... I just don't see myslef having the time or patience to do it, and do it right.

 

Sucks, sucks sucks... :wall: