Locker discussion

[mvusse]

Anybody know the differences between Aussie, Lock-Right and Powertrax lockers?

 

Pros and cons of each?

 

Quality of each compared to the others?

[Motion Offroad]

Lock-Rite vs. Aussie...

 

The Aussie is about 30% larger, stronger (different steel), and a somewhat different design. Bill from Torq Masters (Aussie) was the one who designed the original Lock-Rite when he was Executive Vice President of Vehicular Technologies, Inc, that owned the Lock Right patents and brought the product to market in 1993.

 

Aussie doesn't require the "high strength cross shaft", the Lock Rite does because they use "shear pins", and the "high strength cross shaft" protects their "shear pins". The Aussie doesn't design their pins to break, so they don't need the extra strength of the cross shaft to keep the pins from breaking. The Aussie isn't an exact copy.

 

Bill designed the Aussie to be an improvement over the Lock Rite, so undoubtedly they share similarities; it's not like it's a complicated mechanism, and honestly you can't design it to be much more than it is.

 

And from Bill himself...

 

There are many differences between the Aussie Locker and the competition!

 

A few are:

 

Powertrax/Lock Right have for many years touted their "Shear Pins". They state that their pins are designed to shear/break when the locker gets in a certain position within the case. The so called "benefit" is that the pins break and not the locker. Aussie Locker takes a different design approach and designs our locker so that if it is properly installed, the locker will not get in the position that causes pins to break, therefore "No Shear Pins" in the Aussie Locker...our pins are designed to last the life of the locker.

 

Lock Right has patents and has touted their "spring-within-a-spring design. The Aussie Locker uses a robust spring that does not need two to provide strength and reliability. The EZ locker uses a little "top hat" to fit in the end of their spring". Fewer parts means higher reliability. Point to the Aussie Locker.

 

Lock Right and EZ use a design that have holes (windows) drilled in the sides of the axle gears and cam gears. Aussie Locker engineers feel that holes create opportunities for breakage and we do not use this design and have patents pending to cover our approach. We eliminate 8 side holes in our design. The use of these holes also requires little tunnels in the gears, close to the walls of the gear, where the pin and springs fit and we do not like that for reliability.

 

We use a teeth depth and angles for our product that our engineers have determined to be appropriate for the noise level, smoothness and reliability of our product. Other manufacturers use their own designs.

 

The Aussie Locker cam angles are of our design resulting in a design that meets our product objectives.

 

The Aussie Locker product undergoes a special and propriatary heat treating process to ensure long life and reliability.

 

Aussie Locker has a 100% quality audit under electronic microscopes where we measure specification conformance to the micron level. We will leave it to other manufacturers to specify their own quality level, but we are quite confident that ours is the best in the industry.

 

The Aussie Locker has the best warranty in the industry, with no "get out of jail free" cards the manufacturer can pull out if you have larger than OEM tires or high horsepower.

 

 

Probably more than you wanted to know... :roll:

[maddzz1]

I assume the purpose of the locker is to keep power to both wheels at all times incase one wheel comes off the ground and the limited slip diverts all power to that wheel. Is there anything else a locker does?

[Pete M]

In any slippery situation, a locker will keep both tires churning. mud, snow, sand, gravel, etc. A posi will try hard to keep both tunrnig, but can only do so much.

 

In my eyes, the big advantage of a locker, is that there are certain kinds that can be installed in place of the spider gears without any costs associated with re-setting up the gears (not cheap). All posi diffs will incur this cost since they all replace the carrier. Some lockers replace the carrier, some don't.

[ORCA]

On a different note...

 

I've heard from many people that using lockers in the snow is a bad thing and/or almost useless. Can anyone shed some light on this?

 

I've lived in the snow before, never with a locker, and my MJ never got stuck (even with 3-4 feet of freshies burying my MJ in the driveway). Would a locker (of any breed) have helped/hurt in this situation?

 

I've always wondered this and never was able to get a solid answer. Thanks in advance and sorry for the hijack (seems to be common on our beloved forum).

[Pete M]

On slippery roads (snow, ice, rain, etc), having any sort of posi or locker in the rear can increase the chance of the rear end sliding around when the vehicle is turning a corner or such. It's especially bad for pickups since we don't have much weight over the rear tires.

If the rear differential is open, then when one tire starts spinning, the other one will act as a rudder, helping to maintain a straight line.

Having said that, it's possible to spin out in an open rig, and it's possible to drive just fine in a posi/locked rig. You just need to adjust your driving style to accommodate the particular quirks of the rig.

[ORCA]

On slippery roads (snow, ice, rain, etc), having any sort of posi or locker in the rear can increase the chance of the rear end sliding around when the vehicle is turning a corner or such. It's especially bad for pickups since we don't have much weight over the rear tires.

If the rear differential is open, then when one tire starts spinning, the other one will act as a rudder, helping to maintain a straight line.

Having said that, it's possible to spin out in an open rig, and it's possible to drive just fine in a posi/locked rig. You just need to adjust your driving style to accommodate the particular quirks of the rig.

 

So it seems more unsafe on the streets but what about when wheeling in snow? Help/Hurt?

 

Thanks for the quick response Pete!

[maddzz1]

In any slippery situation, a locker will keep both tires churning. mud, snow, sand, gravel, etc. A posi will try hard to keep both tunrnig, but can only do so much.

 

In my eyes, the big advantage of a locker, is that there are certain kinds that can be installed in place of the spider gears without any costs associated with re-setting up the gears (not cheap). All posi diffs will incur this cost since they all replace the carrier. Some lockers replace the carrier, some don't.

 

So if you wanted to regear to bigger gears and had a locker that didnt require spider gears would you just need to buy the ring and pinion?

[Pete M]

So it seems more unsafe on the streets but what about when wheeling in snow? Help/Hurt?

Thanks for the quick response Pete!

 

When offroad, having more traction is almost always better. The street is a very unique place. It's very very flat and you're generally driving at much higher speeds. These combine to cause all sorts of calamity.

 

So if you wanted to regear to bigger gears and had a locker that didnt require spider gears would you just need to buy the ring and pinion?

 

Well, the ring/ pinion and an install kit. But no, you won't need a new carrier. Just make sure the locker you purchase matches the gear ratio you want. (they have ratio breaks, just like carriers)

[Eagle]

On slippery roads (snow, ice, rain, etc), having any sort of posi or locker in the rear can increase the chance of the rear end sliding around when the vehicle is turning a corner or such. It's especially bad for pickups since we don't have much weight over the rear tires.

If the rear differential is open, then when one tire starts spinning, the other one will act as a rudder, helping to maintain a straight line.

Having said that, it's possible to spin out in an open rig, and it's possible to drive just fine in a posi/locked rig. You just need to adjust your driving style to accommodate the particular quirks of the rig.

 

So it seems more unsafe on the streets but what about when wheeling in snow? Help/Hurt?

 

Thanks for the quick response Pete!

Pete did not say it was "unsafe" to drive with a locker in snow. He said you may have to adjust your driving habits.

 

I have lived in New England all my life. My first car with a posi rear was bought in 1965. Prior to that, I had encountered a couple of situations when I just could NOT make it home in snow storms. Since then, I only drive cars and MJs with limited slips (which might as well be lockers in snow and ice). Haven't encountered a single instance when I couldn't make it through. I have also, since 1965, had two separate instances (in two separate, front-wheel drive company cars) when I was hopelessly stuck and had to be towed out in one case, dug out with a payloader in the other. Those would not have been problems if I had even rear-wheel drive and a lxcoker, and especially in a 4WD Jeep with a locker or limited slip.

 

My MJ that sees regular use has a TrueTrac limited slip in it. I have NO problems in snow and on ice. I also virtually never have to use 4WD. If I didn't have the limited slip, I'd be in 4WD most of the winter.

 

The stories about how "dangerous" lockers are in snow are old wives' tales. Bottom line -- it makes the difference between getting home in a snow storm, or sitting on the side of the road at the bottom of a hill wishing you had installed one last summer when you were thinking about it.

[Sir Sam]

LSD or nothing for me.

[SuperWade2]

LSD or nothing for me.

 

Fully Selectable Lockers or Nothing for me...If I'm spending the $$$ I'm only going to do it once...

[DirtyComanche]

LSD or nothing for me.

 

Fully Selectable Lockers or Nothing for me...If I'm spending the $$$ I'm only going to do it once...

 

 

Which is all well and good until you decided to upgrade your axles...

 

 

 

Anyways, I'd take a full case locker over a lunchbox any day. But I'm comfortable doing a gear setup. Full case lockers are a lot stronger, and some of them work quite a bit better than the lunchboxes.

 

Lockers definatly help when wheeling in the winter. You will kill a clutch-pack limited-slip if you get in situations where it is icy and wheel speed is required. So, a truetrac would be fine, but I'd not run any other L/S. Spools work good in the snow/ice too.

[Sir Sam]

LSD or nothing for me.

 

Fully Selectable Lockers or Nothing for me...If I'm spending the $$$ I'm only going to do it once...

 

 

Which is all well and good until you decided to upgrade your axles...

 

 

 

Anyways, I'd take a full case locker over a lunchbox any day. But I'm comfortable doing a gear setup. Full case lockers are a lot stronger, and some of them work quite a bit better than the lunchboxes.

 

Lockers definatly help when wheeling in the winter. You will kill a clutch-pack limited-slip if you get in situations where it is icy and wheel speed is required. So, a truetrac would be fine, but I'd not run any other L/S. Spools work good in the snow/ice too.

 

See personally I just want the LSD for the around town and highway driving, I don't desire a locker for that, and I don't need a locker for offroad use.

 

My ideal setup would be a truetrac in the rear, and a selectable locker in the front.

[Eagle]

You will kill a clutch-pack limited-slip if you get in situations where it is icy and wheel speed is required. So, a truetrac would be fine, but I'd not run any other L/S. Spools work good in the snow/ice too.

How can that possibly kill a clutch-pack LSD? With virtually no traction, the clutches aren't subject to enough torque to unlock and the axle acts just like a spool. There's no clutch wear at all. The original Trac-Lok in my '88 XJ lasted about 150,000 miles.

[DirtyComanche]

You will kill a clutch-pack limited-slip if you get in situations where it is icy and wheel speed is required. So, a truetrac would be fine, but I'd not run any other L/S. Spools work good in the snow/ice too.

How can that possibly kill a clutch-pack LSD? With virtually no traction, the clutches aren't subject to enough torque to unlock and the axle acts just like a spool. There's no clutch wear at all. The original Trac-Lok in my '88 XJ lasted about 150,000 miles.

 

 

Pretty simple. Ice on one side, not on the other, throw in a long 20* hill and I guarantee you by the time you reach the top the L/S will be unhappy. The issue isn't that you have no traction, but uneven traction. It happens a lot while snow wheeling.

[Eagle]

Okay.

 

I guess you're saying that 150,000 miles is premature, and I should have gotten another 100,000 out of my first one.

 

Whatever.

[DirtyComanche]

Okay.

 

I guess you're saying that 150,000 miles is premature, and I should have gotten another 100,000 out of my first one.

 

Whatever.

 

 

I'm not saying what you did... I'm talking about mad clutch pack slipping. Read what I said. With a load on them it will start to spin the free (on ice) wheel and leave the other one stopped. I blew a L/S up doing this. Snow wheeling is largely about 'hammering down' and trying to maintain your momentum - it means you can easily be throwing 20 minutes of constant abuse at it while climbing a hill. This WILL kill a clutch pack LSD. Maybe not the first time, but it doesn't take many runs.

[Pete M]

So, Dirty is saying that clutches can't stand up to winter wheeling in deep snow, and Eagle is saying that normal driving isn't harsh abuse. Yes? I think you two are arguing over different things. :roll:

[DirtyComanche]

So, Dirty is saying that clutches can't stand up to winter wheeling in deep snow, and Eagle is saying that normal driving isn't harsh abuse. Yes? I think you two are arguing over different things. :roll:

 

 

Exactly! I'm not saying what he is! And I know that! I said no for wheeling, not DDing.

[ORCA]

I'm so confused :hateputers:

[Eagle]

So, Dirty is saying that clutches can't stand up to winter wheeling in deep snow, and Eagle is saying that normal driving isn't harsh abuse. Yes? I think you two are arguing over different things. :roll:

I think that's correct.

 

To be honest, it never occurred to me that anyone would consider a Trac-Lok for serious wheeling. They are intended for street and light, occasional wheeling only.