Help - Electrical/starting

[The_Slow_Norris]

So yesterday my positive battery cable melts down... needless to say it wouldn't start.

 

I replaced both of the battery cable and it turns over super clean now, but won't start???

 

Help? :oops:

 

(1989, "Renix" 4.0L, manual)

 

Factoids:

-I'm pretty sure this occurred because the positive cable's insulation had been (over many years) rubbed off on a corner of a terminal on this "block thing" where the alternator connects to the "terminal block thing." The "block thing" is mounted and runs to the battery.

-I believe this "block thing" to be a "Motorcraft Solenoid," but the starter looks to have a conventional solenoid on the starter unit itself. I believe it to be a "MotorCraft Solenoid" because of a picture in a Haynes manual that looks very similar, but I n naturally distrust Haynes manuals.

-The battery puts off 12.8v and goes down to 11.5v while I try to start the Comanche. (Seems the alternator is either fried too, or not inline?)

-Light dim about the same as always when trying to start her.

 

My initial guesses:

- This "block thing/MotorCraft Soloniod" is fried.

-The fusible link between the alternator and the "block thing/MotorCraft" is fried. And possibly the 10 or so gauge wire that runs from it to the battery has lost all integrity.

-The voltage regulator/alternator is fried.

 

... and that's why she won't start.

 

Questions:

-Is the voltage regulator internally located in the alternator or a separate unit?

-Is that "block thing" indeed a MotorCraft solenoid? (Even though the starter appears to have a solenoid on top of the starter itself?

-Think it's the alternator? (Or fusible link/wiring associated)

-Think it's the Voltage regulator? (Or fusible link/wiring associated)

-Anybody have any experiences with a similar/same problem and it was something I didn't even mention here?

 

Any and all help would be great. I work at the University of Utah and the parking patrol nazis will tow my rig monday. I have tonight and tomorrow to get her started or I'll have to fork out and have it towed across town to my house. :bowdown:

 

-May the Jeep god's bless me- :cheers:

 

(Please feel free to poke fun at stuff like "block thing," :D )

[BLHTAZ]

Unfortunately...many times when the battery wiring gets shorted and melts down, it fries the ECU. I believe someone on here not long ago put the wrong battery in and because it was too tall, the hood hit it, caused a severe short and then it would not start. The end result was a fried ECU as I recall.

 

Battery wiring is one of those things that needs to be looked at about as much as checking for rusted out floors in these trucks. The big difference is that the wiring can cause the entire truck to go up in flames...the floors just cause wet feet :brows: .

[The_Slow_Norris]

Well here goes...

 

After working on it all weekend...

 

-New Battery Cables (+&-)

-Replacing all the fusable link under the hood

-Testing the Battery, Alternator, and coil (all good)

-General insnspection of the wiring surrounding the battery locale

 

... I gave up. I had to have the truck gone come Monday morning, when the gracious and kind University of Utah meter maids would have had her towed. :cry:

 

I had to towed to TereFlex Plus because I have had one good service experience and many good parts experiences with them in the past. I towed it the night of Sunday the 24th, so it was there in the morning on Monday.

 

I consider myself a fairly patient guy and I am willing to cut a lot of slack, but this has gotten bad. Let me relate my experience with TereFlex.

 

Monday the 25th:

I got a call, told the fellow all that I had done and I needed him to figure out the starting problem. I also wanted to get the rear main, and rear axle pinion seal done as my little CJ5 project was taking so much of my time (and I have to have it done by first snow). He said cool, he was on it.

 

Wednesday the 27th:

I call to find out the status as I had not been called. I left a message. It was not returned.

 

Friday the 29th:

Being that my message was not returned and frustrated at lack of communication. I called around noon. This time I got the same tech I got on Monday and had the same conversation I had with him Monday. I doubtmy MJ had even been looked at all week. I figured OK. Dude is on it now. Maybe they had a huge load of Jeep to finish for the holiday weekend and now that it has been sitting there all week they will really push to get my stuff done.

 

Tuesday the 2nd:

I called at noon, talked to a different service guy who said they were on it and he would have my guy call. He did not call!

 

Wednesday the 3rd:

Again called at noon. Got a machine, left a message. My call was not returned.

 

Thursday the 4th:

Called at noon, got my tech. He said it was not the CPS or Ignition unit and that it would start sometimes and not others. He believed it to be a loose or otherwise screwed wire somewhere. (And that someone had "glued" my oil pan to the bottom of the block, but they were taking care of the rear main as we were talking). He also said they had not done the rear axle pinion seal yet, but he would get a guy on it and he thought he would have it done by 6pm (closing time). He said he would call me by 3:30pm and let me know for sure whether it would be done that day. I got no call. So I called at 4pm to find out what the deal was. He told me they still hadn't found it, he would call me at 5:30pm if they found it, but if not? It would be the next day for sure.

 

Friday the 5th:

Today I called at 3pm, got a machine... They didn't return the call. So I called at 4pm, got a machine, didn't bother leaving a message. I called back at 5pm and got another tech, he said my tech was out on a test drive (Not indicative of my MJ), but that my ride would, once again, "probably not be done today." I told him that it had been there for two weeks and I was told it would be done??? He said he would have my tech call me... Well their closing time rolled around and? Surprize, surprize, NO CALL! :headpop:

 

 

 

Jesus Christ will return before they return a call, much less finish my truck. THis is a real drag. I had so much faith in their shop before this and this is such a let down. I almost feel a loss of relationship with a shop I truly trusted.

 

Now to top it all off this will be the 3rd weekend I have had no ride and the second it will be sitting at their shop. Most likely I would have had it done by now fixing it myself??? It has been there for 9 business days.

 

They know it my daily driver and that my other ride is going now. I am officially bummed.

 

What do you folks think?

[BLHTAZ]

I think they have no clue and they don't have the balls to admit it. :roll:

[maddzz1]

I would sign up for AAA, a year membership is about the same price as 2 tow jobs. Then I would have it towed to a shop that specializes in electrical systems. When I had a problem starting and my mechanic could not find it (but didnt pretend like he could). so after a week I suggested I bring it to a place that specializes in electrical and he agreed, soi had it towed (again) and the next day the problem was solved. If your truck is a 4x4 make sure they tow it correctly or tell them to bring a flat bed.

[The_Slow_Norris]

Correctly? You mean t-case in neutral?

[Eagle]

Correctly? You mean t-case in neutral?

No. Not on the old ones. Neutral on the transfer case disengages the transmission from the transfer case, but it locks the front and rear drive shafts. If they try to tow it like that with the front wheels on the arms and the rear wheels on the ground -- it'll get interesting in a hurry.

 

For a short tow leave it in 2WD. For a long tow, have them use a flatbed.

[The_Slow_Norris]

How about a CJ5 w/ a DANA 300? Should I remove one of the drive lines?

[Oizarod115]

...? around here the only tow companies that don't use flatbeds are the takeback men...

 

just get a flatbed wrecker

[Kenosha Warrior]

Correctly? You mean t-case in neutral?

No. Not on the old ones. Neutral on the transfer case disengages the transmission from the transfer case, but it locks the front and rear drive shafts. If they try to tow it like that with the front wheels on the arms and the rear wheels on the ground -- it'll get interesting in a hurry.

 

For a short tow leave it in 2WD. For a long tow, have them use a flatbed.

slightly offtopic, I did a flat-drag with my newest MJ in T-case-Neutral and the trans in park, should I be lookin' for aother AW-4 or am I still cool? No weird noises during the tow?

[maddzz1]

Correctly? You mean t-case in neutral?

No. Not on the old ones. Neutral on the transfer case disengages the transmission from the transfer case, but it locks the front and rear drive shafts. If they try to tow it like that with the front wheels on the arms and the rear wheels on the ground -- it'll get interesting in a hurry.

 

For a short tow leave it in 2WD. For a long tow, have them use a flatbed.

slightly offtopic, I did a flat-drag with my newest MJ in T-case-Neutral and the trans in park, should I be lookin' for aother AW-4 or am I still cool? No weird noises during the tow?

 

I have an 89 and thats how the FSM and the owners manual say to do it. Tranfer case in neutral and tranny in park

[Eagle]

Correctly? You mean t-case in neutral?

No. Not on the old ones. Neutral on the transfer case disengages the transmission from the transfer case, but it locks the front and rear drive shafts. If they try to tow it like that with the front wheels on the arms and the rear wheels on the ground -- it'll get interesting in a hurry.

 

For a short tow leave it in 2WD. For a long tow, have them use a flatbed.

slightly offtopic, I did a flat-drag with my newest MJ in T-case-Neutral and the trans in park, should I be lookin' for aother AW-4 or am I still cool? No weird noises during the tow?

 

I have an 89 and thats how the FSM and the owners manual say to do it. Tranfer case in neutral and tranny in park

That is correct -- for a flat tow with all four wheels on the ground. That is not correct for a tow on a hook.

[Pete M]

I also vaguely remember that the book said not to go above X speed or travel farther than X miles. Anyone remember what those numbers were? Or am I remember that there were numbers attached to towing with the front wheels up?

[maddzz1]

Correctly? You mean t-case in neutral?

No. Not on the old ones. Neutral on the transfer case disengages the transmission from the transfer case, but it locks the front and rear drive shafts. If they try to tow it like that with the front wheels on the arms and the rear wheels on the ground -- it'll get interesting in a hurry.

 

For a short tow leave it in 2WD. For a long tow, have them use a flatbed.

slightly offtopic, I did a flat-drag with my newest MJ in T-case-Neutral and the trans in park, should I be lookin' for aother AW-4 or am I still cool? No weird noises during the tow?

 

I have an 89 and thats how the FSM and the owners manual say to do it. Tranfer case in neutral and tranny in park

That is correct -- for a flat tow with all four wheels on the ground. That is not correct for a tow on a hook.

 

Eagle, If it locks the driveshafts why would it matter if the front wheels are on the groud or in the air? Wouldnt the rear wheels just drag and not spin if the DS was locked?

[Pete M]

I believe it's not the rear driveshaft that's the concern, it's the bearings inside of the t-case. If the case isn't spinning internally, then the oil pump isn't spinning, and then the rear bearings won't get lube. Or something like that.

[maddzz1]

I believe it's not the rear driveshaft that's the concern, it's the bearings inside of the t-case. If the case isn't spinning internally, then the oil pump isn't spinning, and then the rear bearings won't get lube. Or something like that.

 

So if the front wheels are spinning they will get lubed?

[jtdesigns]

I think if its tilted up with nose in the air fluid will settle to the rear bearing.. But then again I didnt even know transfer case had pumps in them.. :dunno: